[Lnc-business] Judicial Committee

Joshua Katz planning4liberty at gmail.com
Thu Jun 2 09:32:22 EDT 2016


I favor approval voting for at-large and JC.  It is open to strategic
voting - as are all methods of voting.  Delegation were provided with index
cards; if a state decided to use torn up scraps of paper, that is their
decision.  You might say an index card isn't professional either - well,
it's more professional, and it just isn't practical to print up in the
neighborhood of 1,000 ballots immediately after nominations.

I agree that it would be far superior to use electronic voting.

Joshua A. Katz
Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)

On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com>
wrote:

> It wouldn't be the first time I was unusual, and this could be in part
> because I am exposed to a lot of Frank Atwood and his advocacy of approval
> voting.
>
> The "don't understand it" is our fault.  I think the "too easy to game it"
> falls under the don't understand it part and the fact that most of the
> delegates were voting on torn up scraps of paper that don't inspire
> confidence in the system.  Whether it would make a difference or not is
> another matter, but perception of professionalism goes a long way.  I
> really do not understand how we don't have something better than that....
> but that is another conversation.
>
> The ridiculous time to tabulate is true. And needs to be improved through
> modernizing.  I know this has been soundly rejected by delegates before,
> but geez louise we are dinosaurs in this.
>
> Yes, an issue for Bylaws to consider, and I don't envy them selling any of
> it to the delegates.
>
> But yes, I do defend approval voting and ranked choice.  Both of them are
> monstrously difficult to do manually, and trivially easy if we were
> modernized.
>
> In Liberty,
> Caryn Ann Harlos
> Region 1 Representative
> (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
> Washington)
>
> On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 7:11 AM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Everyone I've talked to about Approval Voting since the convention has
>> been quite negative on it.  You're literally the first person to defend it,
>> Caryn. :)
>>
>> Somewhere between the "don't understand it" and "too easy to game it",
>> and compounded with "ridiculous time to tabulate", Approval Voting is not a
>> good methodology.
>>
>> I'd personally recommend using IRV for all non-presidential/vp votes.
>> One round, and we can get on with it.  And the committee gets filled in
>> appropriately. LPKY does this and it works like a champ.
>>
>> It's an issue for the Bylaws Committee to consider, anyway.
>> ---
>>
>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2016-06-02 08:28, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>
>> Ken, I believe the voting technology and means we use are the problem,
>> not approval voting itself.  I think most members would be positively
>> riotous against the removal of approval voting, but the means by which we
>> do it can certainly be improved.
>>
>> In Liberty,
>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>> Region 1 Representative
>> (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>> Washington)
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 5:12 AM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Alicia,
>>>
>>> I understand that you have a ridiculous amount of work to do.  As long
>>> as it's on the agenda to get published, I think people will be fine.
>>>
>>> I'd like to explore a secure mechanism to increase voting efficiency -
>>> both the voting and the tallying.
>>>
>>> I'd also like to see the death of Approval Voting.  Blech.
>>> ---
>>>
>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>> Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>> Ballot Access Committee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2016-06-02 01:45, Alicia Mattson wrote:
>>>
>>> Ken,
>>>
>>> Our standard operating procedure is that alternates freely comment on
>>> our email list.
>>>
>>> I know your requests are well intended, but please keep in mind that my
>>> post-convention to-do list is extremely long.  It includes, but is not
>>> limited to:
>>>
>>>    - producing minutes for 2 LNC meetings
>>>    - producing minutes for an EC meeting
>>>    - generating nomination certificates for SOS offices to place our
>>>    presidential ticket on the ballot in states where we already have ballot
>>>    access
>>>    - updating the bylaws
>>>    - updating the platform
>>>    - generating various data sets and articles for LPNews, media
>>>    inquiries, etc.
>>>    - producing minutes for the convention which conducted quite a bit
>>>    of business while I was tabulating election results, so I have my records,
>>>    an assistant's records, and a pile of slips of paper that were submitted
>>>    that contain some of those motions, and a bunch of other ideas for motions
>>>    that were never made
>>>    - my email inbox is full of lots of requests that I won't get to
>>>    immediately
>>>
>>> When the convention minutes are produced, it will contain state-by-state
>>> breakdowns of each of the elections.  That info will be shared, but it just
>>> cannot be at the top of my priority list at the moment.
>>>
>>> -Alicia
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 7:47 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have had 2 of the 4 chairs in Region 3 ask about seeing state totals
>>>> and possibly even having the state ballots scanned in for Treasurer,
>>>> At-Large, and Judicial Committee, since these were skipped over due to time
>>>> constraints and thus there was no ability to contest any results.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know if it's proper for me to speak on this list as an
>>>> Alternate. I reached out to Brett but he was busy today.  And since the
>>>> issue came up, I thought I'd mention it, since it's topical.
>>>> ---
>>>>
>>>> Ken Moellman
>>>> Libertarian Party of Kentucky
>>>> ken.moellman at lpky.org
>>>> http://www.lpky.org/
>>>> (859) OK-BE-LPK
>>>> (859) 652-3575
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2016-06-01 21:24, Sam Goldstein wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Many members are asking about the JC results.  Can someone please
>>>> post them here for distribution?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sam Goldstein
>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>> Member at Large
>>>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>>> 317-850-0726 Phone
>>>> 317-582-1773 Fax
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>>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> In Liberty,
>> Caryn Ann
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
> In Liberty,
> Caryn Ann Harlos
> Region 1 Representative
> (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
> Washington)
>
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>
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