[Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2016-15: Censure John Moore

Whitney Bilyeu whitneycb76 at gmail.com
Sat Oct 22 17:17:07 EDT 2016


Caryn Ann, I know...I had posted a comment that a request is not
enforceable, but I followed up on my own comment, because I didn't want to
imply that I preferred to demand the funds.

On Oct 22, 2016 3:53 PM, "Caryn Ann Harlos" <carynannharlos at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Whitney, it was a request, specially worded so in the resolution, not a
> demand.
>
> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I think it's an interesting question as to whether or not the motion as
>> presented is divisible, and I'm unclear as to the proposed division.
>> Regardless, the bigger issue is that it is basically impossible to handle
>> division of the question by email ballot, leading me to believe it is out
>> of order on an email ballot.
>>
>> Joshua A. Katz
>> Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Whitney Bilyeu <whitneycb76 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Alicia,
>>>
>>> Is it appropriate/allowable to move to divide this motion?
>>> 1) Censure
>>> 2) Call for refund/reimbursement/restitution
>>>
>>> As for the rest of the language in the last two paragraphs, I could do
>>> without it.
>>>
>>> Whitney Bilyeu
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 1:13 PM, Arvin Vohra <votevohra at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I vote yes.
>>>>
>>>> A libertarian elected official's duty is to cut government. That's it.
>>>> Not to support the tyranny of a misled majority.
>>>>
>>>> -Arvin
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 1:16 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sean - hats off to you. <slow clap>
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree completely.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Saturday, October 22, 2016, Brett Bittner <brett.bittner at lp.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I intend to vote on this matter, however I do not intend to do so
>>>>>> until we've heard from Assemblyman Moore.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brett C. Bittner
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Region 3 Representative
>>>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>>
>>>>>> brett.bittner at lp.org
>>>>>> 317.643.2566
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **This message sent from my phone. Please excuse any typos.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2016 08:44, "Sam Goldstein" <goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I vote Yes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This would have been one of the best opportunities to vote on
>>>>>>> principle and to make
>>>>>>> a major impact on big government that the LP has had in our history
>>>>>>> and Mr. Moore
>>>>>>> failed miserably.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sam Goldstein
>>>>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>>> Member at Large
>>>>>>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>>>>>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>>>>>> 317-850-0726 Phone
>>>>>>> 317-582-1773 Fax
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 8:58 AM, Patrick McKnight <
>>>>>>> patrick.joseph.mcknight at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I vote yes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Patrick McKnight
>>>>>>>> Region 8 Rep
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2016 8:14 AM, "David Demarest" <
>>>>>>>> dpdemarest at centurylink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thank you Alicia. I agree that the death penalty deserves a
>>>>>>>>> separate email thread of its own. I also was not aware of the numbers on
>>>>>>>>> the death penalty plank vote. Nevertheless, I would consider 364 to 105
>>>>>>>>> overwhelming but disappointingly not high enough considering the moral
>>>>>>>>> implications as spelled in the full text of my testimony as follows, which,
>>>>>>>>> by the way, turned out to be an extraordinary opportunity to publicize the
>>>>>>>>> LP in Nebraska:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> “Mr. Secretary,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> David Pratt Demarest, 10812 Park Meadow Plaza #133, Omaha, NE 68142
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am Secretary of the Libertarian Party of Nebraska and Regional
>>>>>>>>> Representative on the Libertarian National Committee.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am here today as a private Nebraska citizen to support the
>>>>>>>>> retention of LB268 that repealed the Nebraska death penalty as confirmed by
>>>>>>>>> the override of the Governor’s veto. However, I can tell you that Libertarians
>>>>>>>>> overwhelmingly support the repeal of the death penalty not only for
>>>>>>>>> practical reasons but more importantly for moral reasons. I am personally
>>>>>>>>> aware of *NO* Libertarians in Nebraska or across the nation that
>>>>>>>>> support the death penalty.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Much evidence has been presented today demonstrates the
>>>>>>>>> indisputable failure of the death penalty as a deterrent compounded by the
>>>>>>>>> financial burden it imposes on taxpayers and the extended pain and
>>>>>>>>> suffering it visits on victims. To add insult to injury, victims lose twice
>>>>>>>>> and end up revisiting the pain, anguish and suffering with no closure
>>>>>>>>> because of the undue focus on deterrence, punishment and vengeance on the
>>>>>>>>> perpetrators instead of seeking restitution for the victims. The immoral
>>>>>>>>> use of the death penalty to obtain false confessions was dramatically
>>>>>>>>> illustrated by the infamous Nebraska Beatrice 6 case.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am here, however, to speak to the overriding moral issue. In
>>>>>>>>> addition to the barbaric nature of state-sponsored killing, the risk of
>>>>>>>>> predictable executions of some innocents is beyond morally unacceptable, it
>>>>>>>>> is unconscionable! Further, the possibility of the death penalty being used
>>>>>>>>> as a *political football* to obtain reelection votes raises a
>>>>>>>>> host of ethical questions. To those who might be tempted to
>>>>>>>>> advocate the death penalty for political purposes, you need to reexamine
>>>>>>>>> your conscience and your political, personal and moral priorities.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To voters in the audience, I urge you vote your conscience, vote
>>>>>>>>> to “Retain” LB268 and vote to uphold the death penalty ban in Nebraska. It
>>>>>>>>> is not just practical. It is the only moral choice!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have been selected for poll worker duty. I have to vote early
>>>>>>>>> and have already voted. I am proud to tell you that I voted to retain LB268
>>>>>>>>> to ban the death penalty from Nebraska. I hope you will too!”
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] *On
>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of *Alicia Mattson
>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 22, 2016 3:15 AM
>>>>>>>>> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2016-15: Censure John
>>>>>>>>> Moore
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> DD>> In the introduction to my testimony, I mentioned my positions
>>>>>>>>> with the LNC and the LPNE and I said that while I was there to testify as a
>>>>>>>>> private citizen, Libertarians are overwhelmingly against the death penalty
>>>>>>>>> and that I was personally aware of no Libertarians in Nebraska or across
>>>>>>>>> the nation that support the death penalty. <<DD
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not to change the subject or start a debate on the death
>>>>>>>>> penalty...just addressing a factual detail that came up in the example
>>>>>>>>> situation.  At the national convention there was a counted vote on the
>>>>>>>>> adoption of our death penalty plank, and there were 364 in favor and 105
>>>>>>>>> opposed.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Alicia
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 12:44 AM, David Demarest <
>>>>>>>>> dpdemarest at centurylink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I will delay my vote until we hear from John Moore. It may be that
>>>>>>>>> merely offering the motion to censure will achieve our intended purpose to
>>>>>>>>> express our outrage. In the meantime, however, we need to consider Ken’s
>>>>>>>>> salient point about taking into account an elected official’s duty to
>>>>>>>>> represent the views of his constituents and the articulate responses by
>>>>>>>>> Caryn and Alicia.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I must say I am bothered by the reference to the 60% of
>>>>>>>>> constituents favoring the position that Assemblyman Moore voted for as
>>>>>>>>> justification for his misguided votes. As Caryn has correctly pointed out,
>>>>>>>>> we have a duty to reflect the principles of our party. More importantly, we
>>>>>>>>> have a duty to reflect our personal principles of conscience that hopefully
>>>>>>>>> are reasonably consistent with our party’s principles. Even allowing for
>>>>>>>>> the fact that no two Libertarians are going to agree on all details of all
>>>>>>>>> principles, Assemblyman Moore’s votes go beyond the pale. Here is a recent
>>>>>>>>> example from my personal experience on the cronyism evils of basing
>>>>>>>>> political positions and votes on the consensus of constituents regardless
>>>>>>>>> of any considerations of principles and morals.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Last week I testified against the Nebraska referendum to reinstate
>>>>>>>>> the death penalty at a legally mandated District 2 hearing. The Unicameral,
>>>>>>>>> with the support of Libertarian Senator Laura Ebke, narrowly overrode
>>>>>>>>> Governor Ricketts’ veto of the bill that repealed the death penalty.
>>>>>>>>> Governor Ricketts then used a “substantial” contribution from his personal
>>>>>>>>> fortune to sponsor the ballot referendum to reinstate the death penalty
>>>>>>>>> that was the subject of the hearing. In the introduction to my testimony, I
>>>>>>>>> mentioned my positions with the LNC and the LPNE and I said that while I
>>>>>>>>> was there to testify as a private citizen, Libertarians are overwhelmingly
>>>>>>>>> against the death penalty and that I was personally aware of no
>>>>>>>>> Libertarians in Nebraska or across the nation that support the death
>>>>>>>>> penalty.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Republican State Senator Merv Riepe, a Ralston High School
>>>>>>>>> classmate of mine, testified that his opinion poll showed that his
>>>>>>>>> constituents favored the reinstatement of the death penalty *three
>>>>>>>>> to one* with the clear inference that he intended to reflect his
>>>>>>>>> constituents’ views [regardless of any moral considerations]. I looked
>>>>>>>>> Senator Riepe squarely in the eye and responded with the following
>>>>>>>>> passionate testimony:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> “… the possibility of the death penalty being used as a *political
>>>>>>>>> football* to obtain reelection votes raises a host of ethical
>>>>>>>>> questions. To those who might be tempted to advocate the death
>>>>>>>>> penalty for political purposes, you need to reexamine your
>>>>>>>>> conscience and your political, personal and moral priorities.”
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The point is that reflecting the “consensus of the constituents”
>>>>>>>>> for obvious reelection purposes is not an acceptable or moral justification
>>>>>>>>> for Assemblyman Moore’s two egregious votes. Let’s see what Moore has to
>>>>>>>>> say but keep in mind that our duty is not only to our party’s principles
>>>>>>>>> but also to our personal principles.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] *On
>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of *Alicia Mattson
>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 22, 2016 1:19 AM
>>>>>>>>> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2016-15: Censure John
>>>>>>>>> Moore
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am as upset as the rest of you about the two votes in question,
>>>>>>>>> but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to vote yes on this motion.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Particularly on the stadium vote, Assemblyman Moore held the power
>>>>>>>>> of the deciding vote.  Had he voted no, it would have failed instead of
>>>>>>>>> passing.  We had a Libertarian in a position to make a big real-world
>>>>>>>>> difference, and it didn't happen.  Facepalm.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> IF it's true that his motivation was to play to his constituency
>>>>>>>>> in hopes of getting re-elected, I wonder how he will feel about the votes
>>>>>>>>> in hindsight in the event that he is not re-elected.  What's the point of
>>>>>>>>> being there if you can't vote your conscience?  That's why on the LNC I
>>>>>>>>> also vote the way I think I ought to vote even if other LNC members stage
>>>>>>>>> organized email campaigns from their friends.  Should we be offended at a
>>>>>>>>> public official playing to his constituents if we do the same thing as
>>>>>>>>> party officials?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have several issues with this motion.  I particularly appreciate
>>>>>>>>> Mr. Moellman's questions, and I think we probably should have had a
>>>>>>>>> conversation with Mr. Moore before we flung a motion into the wind.  I
>>>>>>>>> don't think it's sufficient to just hear how other people represent his
>>>>>>>>> position to us.  We should get it straight from him.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am not thrilled about the wording in this resolution.
>>>>>>>>> "...convey a strong message to all and sundry..." ?  Who talks like that?
>>>>>>>>> We're discouraging others from switching to the LP until they completely
>>>>>>>>> agree with us?  With which of us?  Because we don't all agree, either.  I
>>>>>>>>> probably would have added that his vote was effectively the deciding vote.
>>>>>>>>> Etc.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Censure is an action taken by a group against a member of that
>>>>>>>>> same group.  Mr. Moore is not a member of the LNC.  Have we even confirmed
>>>>>>>>> that he's a member of the national party?  As of the national convention in
>>>>>>>>> May, our records did not yet indicate he had signed our membership
>>>>>>>>> certification.  We know he switched his party registration in NV, but that
>>>>>>>>> doesn't make him a member of the national party.  We wouldn't censure
>>>>>>>>> Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton because they're not members of the LNC or
>>>>>>>>> even the LP.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The state affiliate that nominated him has already censured him,
>>>>>>>>> so what does this accomplish for the LNC to pile on?  We can't make him
>>>>>>>>> return the money.  Is it just to make ourselves feel better?  Is the LNC
>>>>>>>>> going to become the purity police that monitors every local/state/federal
>>>>>>>>> elected official and passes resolutions about them?  I am concerned about
>>>>>>>>> starting such a trend.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If we hadn't already donated the funds, I'd vote to rescind that
>>>>>>>>> decision.  That ship has sailed.  I wouldn't vote to donate to him again.
>>>>>>>>> I'm not certain that this motion accomplishes anything productive.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Alicia
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 10:20 PM, Alicia Mattson <
>>>>>>>>> agmattson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We have an electronic mail ballot.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by October 31, 2016 at
>>>>>>>>> 11:59:59pm Pacific time.*
>>>>>>>>> *Co-Sponsors:*  Harlos, Demarest, Hayes, Vohra, Starchild,
>>>>>>>>> Goldstein, Redpath
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Motion:*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Whereas Nevada Assemblyman John Moore, a former Republican who in
>>>>>>>>> January 2016 switched to the Libertarian Party while in office, has during
>>>>>>>>> the past month voted not once but twice in the span of as many days to
>>>>>>>>> raise taxes on his constituents, including a vote to support a "More Cops"
>>>>>>>>> tax which the Libertarian Party of Nevada has tirelessly and thus far
>>>>>>>>> successfully opposed, and a vote to provide a $750 million subsidy to
>>>>>>>>> finance a billionaire-owned sports stadium at the expense of, among others,
>>>>>>>>> indigent persons renting weekly rooms in motels; and
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Whereas the elected leaders of our state affiliate party in Nevada
>>>>>>>>> have rightfully voted to censure Assemblyman Moore for these egregious
>>>>>>>>> votes; and
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Whereas we wish to convey a strong message to all and sundry that
>>>>>>>>> while we welcome sitting legislators in the Republican or Democrat parties
>>>>>>>>> who decide to switch to the Libertarian Party as an act of conscience, we
>>>>>>>>> do not welcome them if they intend, as members of our party, to continue
>>>>>>>>> voting and acting like Republicans or Democrats;
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Therefore be it resolved that the Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>>>>> hereby censures Assemblyman Moore for his recent votes in support of tax
>>>>>>>>> increases, requests that he return the $10,000 campaign contribution which
>>>>>>>>> the LNC this season voted to send him, and admonishes him to henceforward
>>>>>>>>> be a better champion of the values held by members of the political party
>>>>>>>>> with which he has chosen to affiliate if he intends to remain a Libertarian.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Alicia
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Arvin Vohra
>>>>
>>>> www.VoteVohra.com
>>>> VoteVohra at gmail.com
>>>> (301) 320-3634
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *In Liberty,*
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>
>
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