[Lnc-business] Candidate contracts - legal advice?

Caryn Ann Harlos carynannharlos at gmail.com
Sat Oct 22 22:04:40 EDT 2016


Where is the mutual consideration?

On Saturday, October 22, 2016, Arvin Vohra <votevohra at gmail.com> wrote:

> Here's a simple example: A candidate can sign a contract to sponsor and
> vote for legislation to repeal the Patriot act.
>
> If he fails to do that, he pays 10k. This lets voters know that he's not
> all hot air, but has actually put some money behind his word.
>
> -Arvin
>
> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 6:49 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
> carynannharlos at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','carynannharlos at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>> I think we are on the same page Joshua.
>>
>> I see a contract with the voter fraught with issues.
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, October 22, 2016, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','planning4liberty at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>
>>> Why else would who sign it?  Why else would the voter sign it?  Dunno.
>>> If the $10k is to be paid to them, that seems like a reason.  Why else
>>> would the candidate sign it?  Well, I have trouble believing that the
>>> candidate is interested in risking money to get one voter's support.
>>>
>>> If we add to the facts that the voter is agreeing to support the
>>> candidate, then I agree there's consideration, at least on the contract's
>>> own terms.  Actually demanding the performance from the voter would almost
>>> certainly be illegal, but if treated as a bilateral contract the legal
>>> portion might still be enforceable.
>>>
>>> Of the two options, the LNC option probably makes more sense, assuming
>>> the LNC promises to do something - it could be as small as promising not to
>>> attack the candidate.  I'd need more details before knowing if I'd agree
>>> with it or not.  I would oppose the example given - regardless of what I'd
>>> do, I am not interested in binding a candidate not to, for instance,
>>> increase sales tax by .01% in a deal that also eliminates the NSA, or
>>> something like that.
>>>
>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>> Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 4:11 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Why else would they sign it?  I believe that was implicit in Arvin's
>>>> scenario.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Saturday, October 22, 2016, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Where does the hypo say the voter promises support?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>>>> Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 4:01 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe the contact may be against public election policy if with
>>>>>> the voter, but there is consideration.  The voter promises support IF the
>>>>>> candidate follows the pledge.  Clear consideration.  But I think this would
>>>>>> violate some election law, it just doesn't pass the gut test.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now as between the candidate and the LNC, I think that might be a
>>>>>> different matter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Joshua Katz <
>>>>>> planning4liberty at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I believe the contract is unenforceable for want of consideration.
>>>>>>> The voter does not have their future actions constrained in any way, and so
>>>>>>> suffers no detriment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>>>>>> Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 11:41 AM, Arvin Vohra <votevohra at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A few years ago, we started doing candidate pledges. We basically
>>>>>>>> based them off the Norquist tax pledge, but made them about cutting
>>>>>>>> government instead not just not growing it. Some include sponsoring
>>>>>>>> legislation to cut spending to 1998 levels to eliminate the income tax,
>>>>>>>> sponsoring legislation to cut military spending by 60 percent, sponsoring
>>>>>>>> legislation to repeal the Patriot act, etc. The pledges are obviously
>>>>>>>> voluntary.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've been considering advancing this from a pledge to a (voluntary)
>>>>>>>> contract. There are two versions I have considered so far:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. The contract would be signed by the candidate, with any voter
>>>>>>>> able to act as a cosigner. The voter would download a signed pdf, sign it,
>>>>>>>> and that would put the contract into effect.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2. The contract would be between the candidate and the LNC.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Unlike the pledge, the contract would have clear, defined, monetary
>>>>>>>> penalties. As in: "The candidate will oppose any tax increase for any
>>>>>>>> purpose, unless it is accompanied by a larger simultaneous tax decrease, or
>>>>>>>> will pay $10,000." Or something along those lines.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Looking for legal and other input.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Arvin
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Arvin Vohra
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> www.VoteVohra.com
>>>>>>>> VoteVohra at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> (301) 320-3634
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
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>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> *In Liberty,*
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>> Harlos at LP.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org');>
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Arvin Vohra
>
> www.VoteVohra.com
> VoteVohra at gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','VoteVohra at gmail.com');>
> (301) 320-3634
>


-- 
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
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