[Lnc-business] LP.org website transition - missing pages (83% data loss)

Ken Moellman ken.moellman at lpky.org
Wed Nov 16 12:29:49 EST 2016


 

Absolutely. I think we're actually agreeing. 

Please understand that, professionally, I'm in Enterprise Storage and
Backup. My entire job revolves around data; keeping it available and
secure. I'm not one to "delete" anything, but I'm suggesting that now is
the time to take a look at archiving some stuff. By default, we should
retain all data. However, it doesn't all need to be on LP.org. 

I do think that leveraging LPedia is one way to handle it. However, I
think LPedia is being handed off to LSLA and I don't think LP National
can control LSLA and ensure Bylaws compliance. (As a side note, I'm an
LPedia contributor and I think it's a good project). 

---
Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
LPKY Judicial Committee 

On 2016-11-16 05:30, Starchild wrote: 

> Sure Ken, let's take a look. If you or someone else suggest that a particular document or category of materials be transferred to another site, and everyone looks at it and agrees it doesn't need to be maintained on LP.org [4], fine. But if you try to use the implementation of a site revamp as an opportunity to by fait accompli bury or trash material that other people don't want buried or trashed, then the next time you want to update the website (or anything else), some people are likely to remember what you tried to do this time and not trust you. 
> 
> Love & Liberty, 
> ((( starchild ))) 
> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee 
> (415) 625-FREE 
> @StarchildSF 
> 
> On Nov 15, 2016, at 9:01 PM, Ken Moellman wrote: 
> 
> As a new member of the LNC, I wasn't involved in any of the original decisions. I would have said the same thing then, too. This is the right time to examine content. Why move over what is unnecessary? Let's take a look now. 
> 
> There was also talk at one time - several years ago - of splitting the website into two sites; one all about marketing the LP, and the other for the back-office and more technical stuff (like bylaws and meeting minutes and whatnot). Both publicly available, but one being very simple and the other being more of the document repository and archive. 
> 
> I'd rather not talk about re-engineering a brand new website with the new one being wrapped up. But it's all stuff to think about. I do personally think a sleek "first impression" site might be a worthwhile item to examine. 
> 
> ---
> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
> LPKY Judicial Committee 
> 
> On 2016-11-15 23:04, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote: 
> 
> And - as I said. The prediction of members is coming true. It was said then that this move would be an excuse to delete content. I get called paranoid.... and now we see an apologetic for just that. 
> 
> There is sentiment to delete content and there was "appears" to be purposeful ideological rebranding of the masthead that should be an LNC level decision. 
> 
> Just like members expressed fears about and were assured would not happen. 
> 
> And now are said to be paranoid. Or characterized as hyper critics. 
> 
> -- 
> 
> IN LIBERTY, 
> CARYN ANN HARLOS 
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org 
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado [5] 
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus [6] 
> 
> On Tuesday, November 15, 2016, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org> wrote:
> 
> It's not about the cost of storage, really, but the amount of clutter. 
> 
> For instance, somewhere I have every email I have ever sent or received (except 94-97). Why? It's not like I look at them. And it makes searching for something that much more difficult. 
> 
> But I never quite get around to purging out data I don't need anymore because I never have a reason to even get into that old mail. If I ever had a reason, I might start cleaning it up. 
> 
> I even went and re-purchased a software license for $25 because it wasn't worth my time to go back through all of that data to try to save $25. 
> 
> The point is to avoid being a hoarder. While keeping 20-year-old newspapers in stacks around the house has no monetary cost, there are other hidden and not so hidden costs. 
> 
> While we're going through the house anyway, let's toss some garbage. It wasn't garbage 20 years ago, certainly, but now.... well. 
> 
> ---
> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
> LPKY Judicial Committee 
> 
> On 2016-11-15 18:32, Starchild wrote: Ken, 
> 
> Were we somehow running into space limitations on how much is stored at LP.org [7]? I'm not aware of any such issue. Assuming there is no urgency on getting older material off the site, I think any content proposed to be removed from LP.org [7] should first be submitted to the LNC, so that any of us can flag for discussion any material that we _don't_ believe should be transferred (what you said about the decision being "conscientiously made"). LPedia.org [8] would be a natural place to archive older, less useful material, but that site needs to be made fully functional and accessible. Unless there is some kind of urgent technical need, I don't think anything should be removed from LP.org [7], or not ported over to the revamped site, until it has an immediate new home where members can readily access it. 
> 
> Love & Liberty, 
> ((( starchild ))) 
> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee 
> (415) 625-FREE 
> @StarchildSF 
> 
> On Nov 15, 2016, at 2:53 PM, Ken Moellman wrote: 
> 
> There is a question of whether or not we should let some data expire. At some point, the value of the information decreases to a point that it is practically useless. At that point, it should be archived, but not kept on the main site. But what goes away is a decision that should be conscientiously made by someone. 
> 
> Is the old website still hiding somewhere where the LNC members can access it? It might be good to dump every node from the old Drupal site and have some decision-makers determine the value of each page. 
> 
> Wes - My 3PM went long and I have another engagement until 8PM. If you're around after 8:30PM Eastern feel free to give me a call. 
> 
> ---
> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
> LPKY Judicial Committee 
> 
> On 2016-11-15 17:06, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote: 
> 
> Sam - while clever - there is absolutely zero reason we should have data loss simply because we have a new site. That must be a conscious LNC decision. I do not intend on letting this drop. 
> 
> Further - and as you know because I was one of the loudest complaining members - members were assured that there would be no content culling. Members then expressed skepticism at that promise and felt they were being a fed a load of hooey. 
> 
> Let's not show that they in fact were. 
> 
> The look of the site is nice. The ideological rebranding and the loss of content is precisely what members were promised would not happen. 
> 
> Unless the LNC makes some decision on this to settle it- and then members can act accordingly - I have zero intention of letting this drop. 
> 
> This is unacceptable and against all assurances given to our members. 
> 
> I will note well that a lot of that content was generated and put up by paid staff. Paid by members. And now gone. 
> 
> Grumpy cat says nope. 
> 
> To answer Ken's question. Unless we are going to concede the LNC and website committee lied to members, then no one can make a decision to omit content. And in any event that is not APRC. APRC could potentially require that this Bylaws violation be done before anything else. But the rest is outside their scope. 
> 
> This is an LNC level decision. 
> 
> Just like the purposeful masthead rebranding. 
> 
> -- 
> 
> IN LIBERTY, 
> CARYN ANN HARLOS 
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org 
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado [5] 
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus [6] 
> 
> On Tuesday, November 15, 2016, Sam Goldstein <goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Ken, 
> 
> Here is the most recent version of the Policy Manual that I have on my 
> computer. 
> 
> And yes, every single document generated by a member of the party over 
> the past 40 years must be on the web site for total transparency. 
> 
> Sam 
> 
> Sam Goldstein 
> Libertarian National Committee 
> Member at Large 
> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101 
> Indianapolis IN 46260 
> 317-850-0726 Phone 
> 317-582-1773 Fax 
> 
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 2:49 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org> wrote:
> 
> Wes, as soon as I get done with this 3PM call I'll reach out to you. 
> 
> ---
> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
> LPKY Judicial Committee 
> 
> On 2016-11-15 14:18, Wes Benedict wrote: 
> 
> Ken, the technical issues with the website definitely have not been resolved. 
> 
> Wes Benedict, Executive Director
> Libertarian National Committee, Inc.
> 1444 Duke St., Alexandria, VA 22314
> (202) 333-0008 ext. 232 [1], wes.benedict at lp.org
> facebook.com/libertarians [2] @LPNational
> Join the Libertarian Party at: http://lp.org/membership [3]
> 
> On 11/15/2016 2:09 PM, Ken Moellman wrote: 
> 
> Caryn, et al - 
> 
> I believe the technical issues have been resolved with the website at this point. Things look like they're moving pretty quickly and cleanly. 
> 
> I know there are issues with the new website regarding content, and we definitely need to resolve them. Certainly we need to put meeting minutes back online, in compliance with the bylaws. Assuming the technical issues are resoled, I'm sure that will happen in the near future. 
> 
> But this brings up a larger issue: does everything from before need to be there? How far back do we go? Should every bit of content from the old site be available on the new site? 
> 
> Also, I still can't find the Policy Manual, so I don't know if APRC need to approve additions and/or subtractions from the website. If not the APRC, who decides when data expires? 
> 
> ---
> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
> LPKY Judicial Committee 
> 
> On 2016-11-15 13:56, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote: 
> No word yet on this missing data I suppose? 
> 
> I was directed to a link I needed for research and..... a 404 
> 
> https://www.lp.org/archives/lnc20040814.pdf [9] 
> 
> This is not acceptable. 
> 
> -- 
> 
> IN LIBERTY, 
> CARYN ANN HARLOS 
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org 
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado [5] 
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus [6] 
> 
> , Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org 
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado [5] 
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus [6] 
> 
> On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 5:53 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Moulton supplemented: 
> 
> LNC members,
> 
> I want to follow up on this point. I was just looking at 404 errors before. In fact, the problem is much, much, much, much worse.
> 
> The candidate listings that do exist (are not 404 errors, were properly redirected) are mostly just stubs that include only their names.
> 
> These are our statewide candidates in Pennsylvania:
> https://www.lp.org/candidates/edward-clifford/ [10]
> https://www.lp.org/candidates/james-babb/ [11]
> https://www.lp.org/candidates/roy-minet/ [12]
> 
> It might be hard to tell they are our statewide candidates because their listings include only the following information:
> * LP logo
> * Name
> 
> Their listings DO NOT INCLUDE any of the following information:
> * State
> * Office/district
> * Picture
> * Biography
> * Website link
> * Facebook
> * Twitter
> * Contact info
> 
> If you think this problem is limited to states with less political connections, you are wrong.
> 
> Here are a few listings from people running very active campaigns:
> https://www.lp.org/candidates/aaron-starr/ [13]
> https://www.lp.org/candidates/arvin-vohra/ [14]
> https://www.lp.org/candidates/lily-tang-williams/ [15]
> 
> (Disclosure note: I donated to Aaron Starr's campaign.)
> 
> Here are a few other candidates you may recognize:
> https://www.lp.org/candidates/norm-olsen/ [16]
> https://www.lp.org/candidates/roland-riemers/ [17] (404 error)
> https://www.lp.org/candidates/patrick-mcknight/ [18]
> 
> Here is one of the few candidate pages with actual information:
> https://www.lp.org/candidates/mark-miller/ [19]
> 
> Note that even that trails off at the end... "As an experienced PhD petroleum engineer and former UT petroleum engineering faculty member, he will undoubtedly be the most qualified candidate on the November 201". Also the Facebook and Twitter links are broken. And it doesn't mention what office he is seeking. Nice that the LNC donated thousands of dollars to his campaign... too bad no one bothered to spend 5 minutes fixing the errors in his candidate listing.
> 
> Of course, his old page does not redirect:
> https://www.lp.org/candidates/liberty-candidates-16/mark-a-miller/ [20]
> 
> John Moore is a 404 page:
> https://www.lp.org/candidates/elected-official/john-moore/ [21]
> https://www.lp.org/candidates/liberty-candidates-16/john-moore/ [22]
> https://www.lp.org/candidates/john-moore/ [23]
> 
> As is Laura Ebke:
> https://www.lp.org/candidates/elected-official/laura-ebke/ [24]
> 
> TODAY IS ELECTION DAY. What a wasted opportunity!!!
> 
> Maybe if we hadn't shut down our working website 2 weeks before the election and replaced it with a buggy new website with 83% data loss and long load times (using a lot of precious staff time at their busiest period), we could have listed and promoted some of our candidates.
> 
> Please, please, PLEASE exercise some actual oversight as a board and do something about the critical and embarrassing error torpedoing one of our greatest assets (on the eve of the election): our national lp.org [25] website.
> 
> I've received feedback asking me if I was being over the top or facetious suggesting someone should be FIRED or REMOVED FROM THE LNC over this. I was not. I am completely serious. What was done to the website goes beyond a harmless error. It goes beyond reckless. It was NEGLIGENT. Someone should be held accountable for all the damage that has been done to the Libertarian Party -- an organization we all have poured time and money into for decades hoping to see it succeed.
> 
> Thank you for your consideration.
> 
> Chuck Moulton
> Life Member & Monthly Pledger, Libertarian Party
> 
> P.S. I voted proudly for Gary Johnson and the other Libertarians on the Pennsylvania ballot today. 
> 
> On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 3:20 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> For the public's information. A ton of ideological links are, in fact, broken. 
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: CHUCK MOULTON <chuck at moulton.org>
> Date: Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 5:21 PM
> Subject: Re: LP.org [7] website transition - missing pages (83% data loss)
> 
> Kevin Ludlow wrote:
> What would be useful right now would be if you could point out the
> broken links so that we can assign permanent redirects to them.
> 
> [...]
> 
> So anyway, if you'd like to submit broken links, we'd love to set up
> additional forwards. 
> Kevin,
> 
> Glad to help!
> 
> Obviously, it is much easier for you to see what redirects need to be made, as you have access to the old website, the new website, and the 404 logs. However, you seem to be having trouble with this, so I'll provide you with the information you need.
> 
> It would be very difficult to compile a list of all incoming links to lp.org [25] without access to the server logs. Therefore, I used Google's search results, which is a reasonable proxy for outside links. I searched for "site:lp.org [25]", then I did followup searches for all directories I found with "site:lp.org [25] inurl:lp.org/blog [26]" (for example) because Google does not list all the results it has indexed without narrow searches. This netted 2,531 unique URLs indexed by Google. I wrote a program in Python to scrape that information.
> 
> Next, Stewart Flood wrote a Perl program to check every URL on my list and find out whether it threw a 404 error. (He also checked for load times and other information, which we will highlight in a subsequent report.) Sorry this took so long... Stewart was busy watching the World Series. We re-ran the script several times this week to see if staff added any redirects... they only added one page: /contribute. The program can be re-run at any time to track what's been added. Not all of the missing URLs should necessarily be carried forward, but a lot of historical information is no longer present.
> 
> Our results are included in the attachments. (Note: In the summary page, these are groupings by directory, not the actual URLs.)
> 
> Basically, 83% of the webpages indexed by Google have not been carried over or properly redirected.
> 
> In liberty,
> 
> Chuck Moulton
> Life Member & Monthly Pledger, Libertarian Party
> 2006-2008 IT Committee Chair
> 
> Stewart Flood
> Life Member & Monthly Pledger, Libertarian Party
> 2008-2012 IT Committee Chair 
> 
> -- 
> 
> IN LIBERTY, 
> CARYN ANN HARLOS 
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org 
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado [5] 
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus [6]

 -- 

IN LIBERTY, 
CARYN ANN HARLOS 
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) -
Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org 
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado [5] 
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus [6] 

 -- 

IN LIBERTY, 
CARYN ANN HARLOS 
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) -
Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org 
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado [5] 
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus [6] 

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-- 

IN LIBERTY, 
CARYN ANN HARLOS 
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) -
Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org 
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado [5] 
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus [6] 

 _______________________________________________
Lnc-business mailing list
Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org [27] 

-- 

IN LIBERTY, 
CARYN ANN HARLOS 
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) -
Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org 
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado [5] 
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus [6] 

 

Links:
------
[1] tel:%28202%29%20333-0008%20ext.%20232
[2] http://facebook.com/libertarians
[3] http://lp.org/membership
[4] http://LP.org
[5] http://www.lpcolorado.org/
[6] http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/
[7] http://LP.org/
[8] http://LPedia.org/
[9] https://www.lp.org/archives/lnc20040814.pdf
[10] https://www.lp.org/candidates/edward-clifford/
[11] https://www.lp.org/candidates/james-babb/
[12] https://www.lp.org/candidates/roy-minet/
[13] https://www.lp.org/candidates/aaron-starr/
[14] https://www.lp.org/candidates/arvin-vohra/
[15] https://www.lp.org/candidates/lily-tang-williams/
[16] https://www.lp.org/candidates/norm-olsen/
[17] https://www.lp.org/candidates/roland-riemers/
[18] https://www.lp.org/candidates/patrick-mcknight/
[19] https://www.lp.org/candidates/mark-miller/
[20] https://www.lp.org/candidates/liberty-candidates-16/mark-a-miller/
[21] https://www.lp.org/candidates/elected-official/john-moore/
[22] https://www.lp.org/candidates/liberty-candidates-16/john-moore/
[23] https://www.lp.org/candidates/john-moore/
[24] https://www.lp.org/candidates/elected-official/laura-ebke/
[25] http://lp.org/
[26] http://lp.org/blog
[27] http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
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