[Lnc-business] Judicial Committee

Thu Jun 2 11:52:17 EDT 2016

Kevin,

Very nice and that is exactly what I had in mind except to have it in bound
pads issued to each delegate

In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Region 1 Representative
(Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
Washington)

On Thursday, June 2, 2016, Kevin Ludlow <ludlow at gmail.com> wrote:

> Texas preprinted paper ballots for all of the races and had them all
> labeled as such. Each ballot had the race, the round, and the delegate
> number on it (1-71 respectively). It allowed us to ensure everyone received
> a ballot, nobody could turn in multiple, and let us know who was
> outstanding.
>
> I voted for GJ and attached a picture of my ballot for you all. Note the
> numbering system.
>
> While I'm sure some are at odds with me for this citing state sovereignty
> and all of that, there's a huge practical benefit to this process being
> standardized by national - especially as Caryn and others have noted,
> voting integrity is the one of the most imperative tasks to any voting
> system.
>
> I 1000% support any kind of traceable electronic method and while I know
> it can be done, may just be too pie in the sky for the LP at this point. I
> think if national standardized ballots kind of like we had and passed them
> out to delegates (or the delegate captains or whatever) it would be a huge
> step in the right direction.
>
> K
>
> On Thursday, June 2, 2016, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','carynannharlos at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>> I think that would go a long way.  Believe it or not the "appearance" of
>> using scraps or even index cards was one of the biggest gripes I heard.
>>
>> In Liberty,
>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>> Region 1 Representative
>> (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>> Washington)
>>
>> On Thursday, June 2, 2016, Wes Benedict <wes.benedict at lp.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Staff can get pads printed in advance next time. They are reasonably
>>> inexpensive and may come to about 10 cents per sheet. We can make them look
>>> nice and official. A project for next year (working with the Secretary).
>>> Can do different colors for each election or at least put a different title
>>> at the top.
>>>
>>> Wes Benedict, Executive Director
>>> Libertarian National Committee, Inc.
>>> 1444 Duke St., Alexandria, VA 22314
>>> (202) 333-0008 ext. 232, wes.benedict at lp.orgfacebook.com/libertarians @LPNational
>>> Join the Libertarian Party at: http://lp.org/membership
>>>
>>> On 6/2/2016 9:41 AM, Joshua Katz wrote:
>>>
>>> I see, didn't think of that. I agree, but wouldn't have purchased them
>>> prior to this convention, since we didn't know if we'd adopt the bylaw
>>> change to require balloted voting within delegations.  For the future, I
>>> think that would be good.
>>>
>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>> Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 9:37 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Joshua, having pads of paper that are title with voting  etc and
>>>> pre-printed are an expense but are WAY more professional.   Yes things
>>>> would still need to be handwritten in but having a tablet with some
>>>> pre-printing on it lends gravitas and feels personal to the delegate.
>>>>
>>>> In Liberty,
>>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>> Region 1 Representative
>>>> (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>>>> Washington)
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 7:32 AM, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I favor approval voting for at-large and JC.  It is open to strategic
>>>>> voting - as are all methods of voting.  Delegation were provided with index
>>>>> cards; if a state decided to use torn up scraps of paper, that is their
>>>>> decision.  You might say an index card isn't professional either - well,
>>>>> it's more professional, and it just isn't practical to print up in the
>>>>> neighborhood of 1,000 ballots immediately after nominations.
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree that it would be far superior to use electronic voting.
>>>>>
>>>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>>>> Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It wouldn't be the first time I was unusual, and this could be in
>>>>>> part because I am exposed to a lot of Frank Atwood and his advocacy of
>>>>>> approval voting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The "don't understand it" is our fault.  I think the "too easy to
>>>>>> game it" falls under the don't understand it part and the fact that most of
>>>>>> the delegates were voting on torn up scraps of paper that don't inspire
>>>>>> confidence in the system.  Whether it would make a difference or not is
>>>>>> another matter, but perception of professionalism goes a long way.  I
>>>>>> really do not understand how we don't have something better than that....
>>>>>> but that is another conversation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The ridiculous time to tabulate is true. And needs to be improved
>>>>>> through modernizing.  I know this has been soundly rejected by delegates
>>>>>> before, but geez louise we are dinosaurs in this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, an issue for Bylaws to consider, and I don't envy them selling
>>>>>> any of it to the delegates.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But yes, I do defend approval voting and ranked choice.  Both of them
>>>>>> are monstrously difficult to do manually, and trivially easy if we were
>>>>>> modernized.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In Liberty,
>>>>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>>> Region 1 Representative
>>>>>> (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>>>>>> Washington)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 7:11 AM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Everyone I've talked to about Approval Voting since the convention
>>>>>>> has been quite negative on it.  You're literally the first person to defend
>>>>>>> it, Caryn. :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Somewhere between the "don't understand it" and "too easy to game
>>>>>>> it", and compounded with "ridiculous time to tabulate", Approval Voting is
>>>>>>> not a good methodology.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd personally recommend using IRV for all non-presidential/vp
>>>>>>> votes.  One round, and we can get on with it.  And the committee gets
>>>>>>> filled in appropriately. LPKY does this and it works like a champ.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's an issue for the Bylaws Committee to consider, anyway.
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>>>>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>>>>>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2016-06-02 08:28, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ken, I believe the voting technology and means we use are the
>>>>>>> problem, not approval voting itself.  I think most members would be
>>>>>>> positively riotous against the removal of approval voting, but the means by
>>>>>>> which we do it can certainly be improved.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In Liberty,
>>>>>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative
>>>>>>> (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>>>>>>> Washington)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 5:12 AM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alicia,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I understand that you have a ridiculous amount of work to do.  As
>>>>>>>> long as it's on the agenda to get published, I think people will be fine.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'd like to explore a secure mechanism to increase voting
>>>>>>>> efficiency - both the voting and the tallying.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'd also like to see the death of Approval Voting.  Blech.
>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>>>>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>>>> Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>>>>>>> Ballot Access Committee
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2016-06-02 01:45, Alicia Mattson wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ken,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Our standard operating procedure is that alternates freely comment
>>>>>>>> on our email list.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I know your requests are well intended, but please keep in mind
>>>>>>>> that my post-convention to-do list is extremely long.  It includes, but is
>>>>>>>> not limited to:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    - producing minutes for 2 LNC meetings
>>>>>>>>    - producing minutes for an EC meeting
>>>>>>>>    - generating nomination certificates for SOS offices to place
>>>>>>>>    our presidential ticket on the ballot in states where we already have
>>>>>>>>    ballot access
>>>>>>>>    - updating the bylaws
>>>>>>>>    - updating the platform
>>>>>>>>    - generating various data sets and articles for LPNews, media
>>>>>>>>    inquiries, etc.
>>>>>>>>    - producing minutes for the convention which conducted quite a
>>>>>>>>    bit of business while I was tabulating election results, so I have my
>>>>>>>>    records, an assistant's records, and a pile of slips of paper that were
>>>>>>>>    submitted that contain some of those motions, and a bunch of other ideas
>>>>>>>>    for motions that were never made
>>>>>>>>    - my email inbox is full of lots of requests that I won't get
>>>>>>>>    to immediately
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When the convention minutes are produced, it will contain
>>>>>>>> state-by-state breakdowns of each of the elections.  That info will be
>>>>>>>> shared, but it just cannot be at the top of my priority list at the moment.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Alicia
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 7:47 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org
>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have had 2 of the 4 chairs in Region 3 ask about seeing state
>>>>>>>>> totals and possibly even having the state ballots scanned in for Treasurer,
>>>>>>>>> At-Large, and Judicial Committee, since these were skipped over due to time
>>>>>>>>> constraints and thus there was no ability to contest any results.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't know if it's proper for me to speak on this list as an
>>>>>>>>> Alternate. I reached out to Brett but he was busy today.  And since the
>>>>>>>>> issue came up, I thought I'd mention it, since it's topical.
>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ken Moellman
>>>>>>>>> Libertarian Party of Kentucky
>>>>>>>>> ken.moellman at lpky.org
>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpky.org/>http://www.lpky.org/
>>>>>>>>> (859) OK-BE-LPK
>>>>>>>>> (859) 652-3575
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2016-06-01 21:24, Sam Goldstein wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Many members are asking about the JC results.  Can someone please
>>>>>>>>> post them here for distribution?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sam Goldstein
>>>>>>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>>>>> Member at Large
>>>>>>>>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>>>>>>>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>>>>>>>> 317-850-0726 Phone
>>>>>>>>> 317-582-1773 Fax
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>> <http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org>
>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>> <http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org>
>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>> <http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org>
>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> In Liberty,
>>>>>>> Caryn Ann
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> <http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org>
>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> In Liberty,
>>>>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>>> Region 1 Representative
>>>>>> (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>>>>>> Washington)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> In Liberty,
>>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>> Region 1 Representative
>>>> (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>>>> Washington)
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing listLnc-business at hq.lp.orghttp://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> In Liberty,
>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>> Region 1 Representative
>> (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>> Washington)
>>
>>
>
> --
> ========================================================
> Kevin Ludlow
> 512-773-3968
> http://www.kevinludlow.com
>
>
>

-- 
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Region 1 Representative
(Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
Washington)
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