[Lnc-business] Not all of the LNC emails are appearing on theLNC reflector list
Robert Kraus
robert.kraus at lp.org
Mon Jun 13 18:06:51 EDT 2016
If you are one of the 56 folks subscribed to the Google Group please rely on this http://hq.lp.org/pipermail/lnc-business_hq.lp.org/ until we contact Google to se if they can tell us why some emails are not posting properly.
Again you may check messages by thread, author, subject or date. No subscription needed - anyone can view anytime!
I will work with Alicia on coming up with a different solution but unfortunately both of us are very busy on other matters so it may be a few days before we can set up or fix the current group.
Live Free!
Robert
________________________________________
From: Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] On Behalf Of Caryn Ann Harlos
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 5:53 PM
To: lnc-business at hq.lp.org
Cc: lnc-business at lp.org
Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] Not all of the LNC emails are appearing on theLNC reflector list
Robert,
I understand the limited time and nightmare of having to work with Google lists. I also understand that the lp.org list has the complete emails. I also understand the threading problem. But I don't think you have understood my point: despite all that, there are messages simply not ending up on the google list. For instance my two replies to Brett's posts on the Weeks' situation.
Yes, anyone who wants the full list can go to lp.org. But the point I am making is that having an incomplete list that people can subscribe to is actively harmful. If we cannot, due to time (understandable) or limited resources (also understandable) have the google list be complete, we shouldn't have it.
As far as other solutions, I am not an IT person. I don't have any solution. I only know that a partially complete list that some people are relying upon to be informed Party members is not helping them, it is hurting them. It is giving them an incomplete picture.
I did not take this off list because I feel this discussion is important for the members to see.
On Monday, June 13, 2016, Robert Kraus <robert.kraus at lp.org> wrote:
Thank you again for your comments. From what I can tell Google Groups is getting confused because for some reason when I sort our own list (link below) by subject – I see at least 6 different subject threads.
So it is something to do with the way Google Groups sets up conversations based on subjects. I truly do not have the time I am very very sorry to work this out anytime in the next few days.
ALL MESSAGES HOWEVER APPEAR HERE SO NO ONE WHO WANTS TO READ YOUR CONVERSATIONS ARE BEING CHEATED: http://hq.lp.org/pipermail/lnc-business_hq.lp.org/
Do note you can check messages by thread, author, subject or date.
The Google group is trying to sort by tread (conversation) and I can have it re-sort in some other way (I think default is date). We did try Yahoo Groups before Google but that was worse.
If you would like - please feel free to create an additional group that you will manage and send Alicia and I (off list) the email address for that group and we will ad that to the distro for the business list. Perhaps you know of something better then Google or Yahoo groups?
Please take this discussion off list so Alicia and I can work directly with you on resolving this.
Live Free!
Robert
Robert S. Kraus - Dir of Operations
Operations at LP.org
Libertarian National Committee
Ph: 202.333.0008 x 231
Join today: https://www.lp.org/membership
LP FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/libertarians
________________________________________
From: Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] On Behalf Of Caryn Ann Harlos
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 5:17 PM
To: lnc-business at hq.lp.org
Cc: lnc-business
Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] Not all of the LNC emails are appearing on the LNC reflector list
Okay that solves the mystery of the multiple emails. But it does not solve the mystery of the incomplete Google list. Which, as Starchild says, is actively harmful if it does not include everything.
You don't need to go through that JC thread morass for thirty minutes to know I am correct. Go to that one post by Brett on the Weeks' situation in Region 3. I responded twice. None of them are there.
On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:14 PM, Robert Kraus <robert.kraus at lp.org> wrote:
There is but ONE list – both email addresses lnc-business at lp.org AND lnc-business at hq.lp.org work for that ONE list. You DO NOT need to use BOTH emails. Many folks however used to forget the hq.lp.org thing (which is what all of our lists are called) thus we created the forwarder without the “hq.”
To make your life simple - feel free to use either of the two emails. They both go to the ONE list. But do not use BOTH or you will end up sending out 2 emails.
It is also best NOT to “cc” multiple lists or people as there is a limit to how many addresses can listed and thus emails may bounce or require approval which Alicia takes care of.
Live Free!
Robert
Robert S. Kraus - Dir of Operations
Operations at LP.org
Libertarian National Committee
Ph: 202.333.0008 x 231
Join today: https://www.lp.org/membership
LP FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/libertarians
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From: Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] On Behalf Of Caryn Ann Harlos
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 5:07 PM
To: Starchild
Cc: lnc-business at hq.lp.org; lnc-business Business
Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] Not all of the LNC emails are appearing on the LNC reflector list
And yes, why the two emails?
On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:06 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you Starchild....
I am not trying to be a pain in Robert's behind, but this isn't something we can just go "oh well" about. If I am wrong and missing something, I need to be shown, but those in Region 1 who elected me will be judging me, and the rest of the LNC based on these exchanges and if they are not complete, it is actively harmful. I became aware of this through a FB discussion in which a member was complaining that a point had not been made in a discussion. Yet, I had made that very point, and I realized this member never saw my response. This is not acceptable.
Halfway transparent or incomplete isn't transparent, and it isn't serving our members, and it isn't fair to us.
Now maybe I screwed up and am missing it, but as an example, the opening email in this chain....does not appear in the google list. It appears later when Robert responded to me, but if no one responded, this would never have appeared.
Is this an issue just with my email and with my posts? In any event, this needs to be resolved.
As another example of missing responses, I responded twice to Brett's email about the Weeks situation. You all will have received those responses. They do not appear on the Google lists. Region 1 members (and all others) deserve to have an accurate way to track. If only the one at lp.org can or will be complete, that should be the only one that exists. Having a partial or incomplete list is the worst of all possible worlds.
On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Starchild <sfdreamer at earthlink.net> wrote:
I strongly share Caryn's concern about this issue. Having multiple LNC lists, whether they are used or not, seems to be generating confusion and interfering with transparency. It is often not clear what is going on.
For instance, I received Robert's message below twice – apparently because he copied it to both lnc-business at lp.org and lnc-business at hq.lp.org. I do not understand the difference between those two lists, or why both of them exist. Do they both forward to the public reflector list, or does only one of them get forwarded? (I've copied both lists on this email, so perhaps someone reading on the reflector list can say whether you receive the message once or twice).
This kind of confusing system seems entirely unnecessary, and if Caryn is right about some messages not showing up publicly, it is actively harmful – if there's something I'm missing, Robert or someone please explain in full detail. As things stand, I believe we should adopt one of the two following approaches:
(1) We maintain one and only one list for communication among LNC members, and scrap all other non-public lists entirely. Then it should be a simple matter to ensure that those other lists are not inadvertently used and that everything which appears on the sole LNC list gets forwarded to the public reflector list.
(2) We have everyone (LNC members and non-LNC members) subscribed to the same list, but with only LNC members having posting privileges. Then there would never be any question of whether all the messages on our list are properly making it to the public list, since they would not need to be forwarded at all.
I favor option #2 as being the best, if it is technically feasible, but option #1 could also go a long way toward resolving these issues.
Can we get one of these approaches implemented ASAP without passing a formal motion about it?
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee (2016-2018)
RealReform at earthlink.net
(415) 625-FREE
On Jun 13, 2016, at 1:02 PM, Robert Kraus wrote:
As Alicia pointed out the other day - please note there is only one list lnc-business at lp.org for LNC Business thanks!
Live Free!
Robert
Robert S. Kraus - Dir of Operations
Operations at LP.org
Libertarian National Committee
Ph: 202.333.0008 x 231
Join today: https://www.lp.org/membership
LP FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/libertarians
________________________________________
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From: Caryn Ann Harlos [mailto:carynannharlos at gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 3:48 PM
To: Robert Kraus
Cc: Wes Benedict; lnc-business at hq.lp.org
Subject: Re: Not all of the LNC emails are appearing on the LNC reflector list
Okay someone on FB might have figured it out. Are there "two" lists" LNC-Votes and LNC-Business and the google one only is if you reply to LNC-Votes?
I can show you messages of mine which are days old which **do not** appear on the google list.
On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:42 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
The list on lp.org is complete. The list on the google groups (which is what members are following) is not. There are emails that appear in one list and not the other. This is an issue.
On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:41 PM, Robert Kraus <robert.kraus at lp.org> wrote:
I am not sure what list you are referring to however everything posted to LNC-Business is available here: http://hq.lp.org/pipermail/lnc-business_hq.lp.org/2016/date.html
And also via Google Group here: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/lncvotes
Live Free!
Robert
Robert S. Kraus - Dir of Operations
Operations at LP.org
Libertarian National Committee
Ph: 202.333.0008 x 231
Join today: https://www.lp.org/membership
LP FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/libertarians
size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
From: Caryn Ann Harlos [mailto:carynannharlos at gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 3:34 PM
To: Robert Kraus; Wes Benedict; lnc-business at hq.lp.org
Subject: Not all of the LNC emails are appearing on the LNC reflector list
There are large bit of the discussion on:
"Fwd: Remaining Members of Judicial Committee Fill Vacancies" that are missing from the LNC reflector. I have my email copy of the thread and it is not complete on the reflector.
If the members are going to be viewing this, it needs to be complete.
--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Region 1 Representative
(Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Region 1 Representative
(Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Region 1 Representative
(Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
_______________________________________________
Lnc-business mailing list
Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Region 1 Representative
(Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Region 1 Representative
(Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
_______________________________________________
Lnc-business mailing list
Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Region 1 Representative
(Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
_______________________________________________
Lnc-business mailing list
Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
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