[Lnc-business] Not all of the LNC emails are appearing on the LNC reflector list
Caryn Ann Harlos
carynannharlos at gmail.com
Mon Jun 13 18:19:31 EDT 2016
Thank you Robert, I will alert those I know to the issue. I look forward
to what you and Alicia come up with, and thank you for hearing me out.
(Starchild: I didn't weigh in on your suggestion solutions as I am not
technically minded. I just want whatever is out there to be complete)
On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 4:08 PM, Starchild <sfdreamer at earthlink.net> wrote:
> I believe we need *fewer* lists/groups here, not more. The existence of
> too many LNC lists is creating confusion, and is liable to continue to do
> so as people come and go from the LNC and the reflector list. I haven't
> seen anyone weigh in on the two solutions I proposed:
>
> (1) We maintain one and only one list for communication among LNC members,
>> and scrap all other non-public lists entirely. Then it should be a simple
>> matter to ensure that those other lists are not inadvertently used and that
>> everything which appears on the sole LNC list gets forwarded to the public
>> reflector list.
>>
>> (2) We have everyone (LNC members and non-LNC members) subscribed to the
>> same list, but with only LNC members having posting privileges. Then there
>> would never be any question of whether all the messages on our list are
>> properly making it to the public list, since they would not need to be
>> forwarded at all.
>>
>> I favor option #2 as being the best, if it is technically feasible, but
>> option #1 could also go a long way toward resolving these issues.
>
>
>> Love & Liberty,
>>
>> ((( starchild )))
>> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee (2016-2018)
>> RealReform at earthlink.net
>> (415) 625-FREE
>
>
>
> On Jun 13, 2016, at 2:52 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>
> Robert,
>
> I understand the limited time and nightmare of having to work with Google
> lists. I also understand that the lp.org list has the complete emails.
> I also understand the threading problem. But I don't think you have
> understood my point: despite all that, there are messages simply not
> ending up on the google list. For instance my two replies to Brett's posts
> on the Weeks' situation.
>
> Yes, anyone who wants the full list can go to lp.org. But the point I am
> making is that having an incomplete list that people can subscribe to is *actively
> harmful.* If we cannot, due to time (understandable) or limited
> resources (also understandable) have the google list be complete, we
> shouldn't have it.
>
> As far as other solutions, I am not an IT person. I don't have any
> solution. I only know that a partially complete list that some people are
> relying upon to be informed Party members is not helping them, it is
> hurting them. It is giving them an incomplete picture.
>
> I did not take this off list because I feel this discussion is important
> for the members to see.
>
>
>
> On Monday, June 13, 2016, Robert Kraus <robert.kraus at lp.org> wrote:
>
>> Thank you again for your comments. From what I can tell Google Groups is
>> getting confused because for some reason when I sort our own list (link
>> below) by subject – I see at least 6 different subject threads.
>>
>> So it is something to do with the way Google Groups sets up conversations
>> based on subjects. I truly do not have the time I am very very sorry to
>> work this out anytime in the next few days.
>>
>> ALL MESSAGES HOWEVER APPEAR HERE SO NO ONE WHO WANTS TO READ YOUR
>> CONVERSATIONS ARE BEING CHEATED:
>> http://hq.lp.org/pipermail/lnc-business_hq.lp.org/
>>
>> Do note you can check messages by thread, author, subject or date.
>>
>> The Google group is trying to sort by tread (conversation) and I can have
>> it re-sort in some other way (I think default is date). We did try Yahoo
>> Groups before Google but that was worse.
>>
>> If you would like - please feel free to create an additional group that
>> you will manage and send Alicia and I (off list) the email address for that
>> group and we will ad that to the distro for the business list. Perhaps you
>> know of something better then Google or Yahoo groups?
>>
>> Please take this discussion off list so Alicia and I can work directly
>> with you on resolving this.
>>
>> Live Free!
>>
>> Robert
>>
>>
>> Robert S. Kraus - Dir of Operations
>> Operations at LP.org
>> Libertarian National Committee
>> Ph: 202.333.0008 x 231
>>
>> Join today: https://www.lp.org/membership
>> LP FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/libertarians
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] On Behalf Of
>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 5:17 PM
>> To: lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> Cc: lnc-business
>> Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] Not all of the LNC emails are appearing on
>> the LNC reflector list
>>
>> Okay that solves the mystery of the multiple emails. But it does not
>> solve the mystery of the incomplete Google list. Which, as Starchild says,
>> is actively harmful if it does not include everything.
>>
>> You don't need to go through that JC thread morass for thirty minutes to
>> know I am correct. Go to that one post by Brett on the Weeks' situation in
>> Region 3. I responded twice. None of them are there.
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:14 PM, Robert Kraus <robert.kraus at lp.org>
>> wrote:
>> There is but ONE list – both email addresses lnc-business at lp.org AND
>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org work for that ONE list. You DO NOT need to use
>> BOTH emails. Many folks however used to forget the hq.lp.org thing
>> (which is what all of our lists are called) thus we created the forwarder
>> without the “hq.”
>>
>> To make your life simple - feel free to use either of the two emails.
>> They both go to the ONE list. But do not use BOTH or you will end up
>> sending out 2 emails.
>>
>> It is also best NOT to “cc” multiple lists or people as there is a limit
>> to how many addresses can listed and thus emails may bounce or require
>> approval which Alicia takes care of.
>>
>> Live Free!
>>
>> Robert
>>
>> Robert S. Kraus - Dir of Operations
>> Operations at LP.org
>> Libertarian National Committee
>> Ph: 202.333.0008 x 231
>>
>> Join today: https://www.lp.org/membership
>> LP FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/libertarians
>> size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
>> From: Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] On Behalf Of
>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 5:07 PM
>> To: Starchild
>> Cc: lnc-business at hq.lp.org; lnc-business Business
>> Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] Not all of the LNC emails are appearing on
>> the LNC reflector list
>>
>> And yes, why the two emails?
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:06 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thank you Starchild....
>>
>> I am not trying to be a pain in Robert's behind, but this isn't something
>> we can just go "oh well" about. If I am wrong and missing something, I
>> need to be shown, but those in Region 1 who elected me will be judging me,
>> and the rest of the LNC based on these exchanges and if they are not
>> complete, it is actively harmful. I became aware of this through a FB
>> discussion in which a member was complaining that a point had not been made
>> in a discussion. Yet, I had made that very point, and I realized this
>> member never saw my response. This is not acceptable.
>>
>> Halfway transparent or incomplete isn't transparent, and it isn't serving
>> our members, and it isn't fair to us.
>>
>> Now maybe I screwed up and am missing it, but as an example, the opening
>> email in this chain....does not appear in the google list. It appears
>> later when Robert responded to me, but if no one responded, this would
>> never have appeared.
>>
>> Is this an issue just with my email and with my posts? In any event,
>> this needs to be resolved.
>>
>> As another example of missing responses, I responded twice to Brett's
>> email about the Weeks situation. You all will have received those
>> responses. They do not appear on the Google lists. Region 1 members (and
>> all others) deserve to have an accurate way to track. If only the one at
>> lp.org can or will be complete, that should be the only one that
>> exists. Having a partial or incomplete list is the worst of all possible
>> worlds.
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Starchild <sfdreamer at earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>> I strongly share Caryn's concern about this issue. Having multiple LNC
>> lists, whether they are used or not, seems to be generating confusion and
>> interfering with transparency. It is often not clear what is going on.
>>
>> For instance, I received Robert's message below twice – apparently
>> because he copied it to both lnc-business at lp.org and
>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org. I do not understand the difference between those
>> two lists, or why both of them exist. Do they both forward to the public
>> reflector list, or does only one of them get forwarded? (I've copied both
>> lists on this email, so perhaps someone reading on the reflector list can
>> say whether you receive the message once or twice).
>>
>> This kind of confusing system seems entirely unnecessary, and if Caryn is
>> right about some messages not showing up publicly, it is actively harmful –
>> if there's something I'm missing, Robert or someone please explain in full
>> detail. As things stand, I believe we should adopt one of the two following
>> approaches:
>>
>> (1) We maintain one and only one list for communication among LNC
>> members, and scrap all other non-public lists entirely. Then it should be a
>> simple matter to ensure that those other lists are not inadvertently used
>> and that everything which appears on the sole LNC list gets forwarded to
>> the public reflector list.
>>
>> (2) We have everyone (LNC members and non-LNC members) subscribed to the
>> same list, but with only LNC members having posting privileges. Then there
>> would never be any question of whether all the messages on our list are
>> properly making it to the public list, since they would not need to be
>> forwarded at all.
>>
>> I favor option #2 as being the best, if it is technically feasible, but
>> option #1 could also go a long way toward resolving these issues.
>>
>> Can we get one of these approaches implemented ASAP without passing a
>> formal motion about it?
>>
>> Love & Liberty,
>>
>> ((( starchild )))
>> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee (2016-2018)
>> RealReform at earthlink.net
>> (415) 625-FREE
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 13, 2016, at 1:02 PM, Robert Kraus wrote:
>>
>> As Alicia pointed out the other day - please note there is only one list
>> lnc-business at lp.org for LNC Business thanks!
>>
>> Live Free!
>>
>> Robert
>>
>> Robert S. Kraus - Dir of Operations
>> Operations at LP.org
>> Libertarian National Committee
>> Ph: 202.333.0008 x 231
>>
>> Join today: https://www.lp.org/membership
>> LP FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/libertarians
>> ________________________________________
>> size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
>> From: Caryn Ann Harlos [mailto:carynannharlos at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 3:48 PM
>> To: Robert Kraus
>> Cc: Wes Benedict; lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> Subject: Re: Not all of the LNC emails are appearing on the LNC reflector
>> list
>>
>> Okay someone on FB might have figured it out. Are there "two" lists"
>> LNC-Votes and LNC-Business and the google one only is if you reply to
>> LNC-Votes?
>>
>> I can show you messages of mine which are days old which **do not**
>> appear on the google list.
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:42 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>> The list on lp.org is complete. The list on the google groups (which is
>> what members are following) is not. There are emails that appear in one
>> list and not the other. This is an issue.
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:41 PM, Robert Kraus <robert.kraus at lp.org>
>> wrote:
>> I am not sure what list you are referring to however everything posted to
>> LNC-Business is available here:
>> http://hq.lp.org/pipermail/lnc-business_hq.lp.org/2016/date.html
>>
>> And also via Google Group here:
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/lncvotes
>>
>> Live Free!
>>
>> Robert
>>
>> Robert S. Kraus - Dir of Operations
>> Operations at LP.org
>> Libertarian National Committee
>> Ph: 202.333.0008 x 231
>>
>> Join today: https://www.lp.org/membership
>> LP FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/libertarians
>> size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
>> From: Caryn Ann Harlos [mailto:carynannharlos at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 3:34 PM
>> To: Robert Kraus; Wes Benedict; lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> Subject: Not all of the LNC emails are appearing on the LNC reflector list
>>
>> There are large bit of the discussion on:
>>
>> "Fwd: Remaining Members of Judicial Committee Fill Vacancies" that are
>> missing from the LNC reflector. I have my email copy of the thread and it
>> is not complete on the reflector.
>>
>> If the members are going to be viewing this, it needs to be complete.
>>
>> --
>> In Liberty,
>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>> Region 1 Representative
>> (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>> Washington)
>> Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> In Liberty,
>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>> Region 1 Representative
>> (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>> Washington)
>> Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> In Liberty,
>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>> Region 1 Representative
>> (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>> Washington)
>> Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> In Liberty,
>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>> Region 1 Representative
>> (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>> Washington)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> In Liberty,
>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>> Region 1 Representative
>> (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>> Washington)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> In Liberty,
>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>> Region 1 Representative
>> (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>> Washington)
>> Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>
>
--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Region 1 Representative
(Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
Washington)
Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
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