[Lnc-business] Policy Manual - Regional Representatives

Sun Jun 26 22:37:28 EDT 2016

Thank you for the clarification.

In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Region 1 Representative
(Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
Washington)

*PS: remember, please sign your emails... the sender information is often
unclear when this goes to the public list, and the members can have a hard
time keeping track of who said what, and they deserve to know.*

On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 8:34 PM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson at gmail.com> wrote:

> The Delegation Chair's Manual says:
>
> "Some regions opt to use regional formation agreements to document
> mutually agreed upon rules for their region before any future disputes
> arise.  A recommended basic regional agreement is included at the end of
> this document, though you are not required to use this particular one or
> any one at all."
>
> This motion suggests that each region has one, and it includes information
> beyond just "We're a region!"
>
> -Alicia
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 7:20 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Alicia, it was my understanding from the Delegate Chair Manual that every
>> region does have to sign a region formation agreement, even if it was
>> something as simple as "We're a region!"  - that would be the agreement.
>>
>> In Liberty,
>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>> Region 1 Representative
>> (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>> Washington)
>>
>> *PS: remember, please sign your emails... the sender information is often
>> unclear when this goes to the public list, and the members can have a hard
>> time keeping track of who said what, and they deserve to know.*
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I agree with Ken here in terms of how useful this would be.  If someone
>>> isn't going to read the bylaws and see how the region reps work, why would
>>> they read the policy manual to see someone else's attempt to describe
>>> what's in the bylaws?  I don't see this as solving the described problem.
>>>
>>> I also would quibble with some of the language.  For example, not every
>>> region has a region formation agreement, though this language suggests they
>>> do.  Some merely sign a piece of paper saying "We're a region!"
>>>
>>> -Alicia
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 10:54 AM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> All,
>>>>
>>>> As designed and codified in the bylaws today, the regions are
>>>> autonomous, and have the right to determine their own reps as they see fit
>>>> (by mutual agreement, or otherwise by the state chairs by default).  The
>>>> Region Representative represents the region. They serve the region at their
>>>> leisure. This is already codified in the bylaws. I don't see a reason to
>>>> reiterate this any further in other documents.  I would suggest that it
>>>> would only clutter the already-lengthy document.
>>>>
>>>> In 2014, I suggested reorganizing regions based on Federal Court
>>>> districts, with multiple districts in each region to make the national
>>>> membership numbers in each region almost equal. The goal of this approach
>>>> was to foster communication between states in the same federal court
>>>> circuits, since Court of Appeals ruling effect every state in the
>>>> district.   This never gained traction for multiple reasons, the largest of
>>>> which seemed to be protecting silly fiefdoms. I've personally moved on to
>>>> build those relationships outside of the Region Reps.  I introduced LPKY's
>>>> attorney to the counsel for LPTN and LPMI at the national convention, and
>>>> LPKY's attorney has now worked with LPO's attorney.
>>>>
>>>> I do think we should consider reducing the number of regions and
>>>> at-large positions by 1, keeping a balance between those elected by the
>>>> entire body and those elected from districts.
>>>>
>>>> Just my $0.02 on the matter.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>>
>>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2016-06-26 13:36, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>>
>>>> There is a problem.  Whether this is a solution or not is another
>>>> matter, but I think it certainly adds clarity. We must remember that the
>>>> Policy Manual isn't *only* for the LNC but for the members to *understand*
>>>> the LNC.  I read it when I was a new member (no wisecracks Sam!).  Now I
>>>> realize I am an aberration in  my zeal to read our documents but that is in
>>>> fact another purpose of it.  Most members have zero idea they even have a
>>>> regional representative, and in fact, what use such a person is.  Perhaps
>>>> the un-regioned (made that word up) states would be more likely to join a
>>>> region if they saw the value and the value was made a part of the record.
>>>>
>>>> This is definitely a problem because there are regional representatives
>>>> who come in going now what?  I found myself in a different position in that
>>>> I was already entrenched as a non-LNC member in the goings on, attending
>>>> and writing about meetings, reading the lists etc, and did an active
>>>> campaign for the position that I decided on well in advance.  But
>>>> oftentimes (whether this is good or not is another issue) regional
>>>> representatives are chosen and decided at the region meeting with little
>>>> prior intent.  Either no one campaigned, or someone decides they don't like
>>>> the choices, and heck, better step up.  Whatever the reason, we find
>>>> ourselves with absolutely no guidance on what the heck it is we are
>>>> supposed to do.  The fact is, I just took it upon myself to start doing
>>>> things and interfacing with my region in ways I thought were a good idea,
>>>> but it would be great to know what has been learned from the past.
>>>> Again.... institutional knowledge, we are terrible at it.
>>>>
>>>> In Liberty,
>>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>> Region 1 Representative
>>>> (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>>>> Washington)
>>>>
>>>> *PS: remember, please sign your emails... the sender information is
>>>> often unclear when this goes to the public list, and the members can have a
>>>> hard time keeping track of who said what, and they deserve to know.*
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 11:14 AM, David Demarest <
>>>> dpdemarest at centurylink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I am good with Caryn's suggested revision.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Others?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>>>>>
>>>>> Region 6 Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] *On
>>>>> Behalf Of *David Demarest
>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, June 26, 2016 12:04 PM
>>>>> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] Policy Manual - Regional Representatives
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Caryn. I have pasted in the previous responses for background
>>>>> information.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org
>>>>> <lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org>] *On Behalf Of *Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, June 26, 2016 11:45 AM
>>>>> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> *Subject:* [Lnc-business] Policy Manual - Regional Representatives
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I am starting this new chain for the discussion on David's proposal to
>>>>> add a section to the Policy Manual on Regional Representatives.  This was
>>>>> David's initial working proposal as a starting point:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> LNC regional representatives and alternates who serve at the pleasure
>>>>> of the region member state chairs are encouraged to provide a transparent
>>>>> channel that facilitates mutually supportive communication between the LNC
>>>>> and officers and members of the regional state organizations. Actual
>>>>> regional organization policies are left to the discretion of and agreement
>>>>> between the member state chairs and their regional representatives and
>>>>> alternates.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I suggest this change:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> LNC Regional Representatives and Alternates who serve at the pleasure
>>>>> of their Region, as specified in the Region Formation Agreement, are
>>>>> encouraged to provide a transparent channel that facilitates mutually
>>>>> supportive communication between the LNC and Officers and members of the
>>>>> regional state affiliates. Actual regional organization policies and
>>>>> additional duties are left to the discretion of and agreement between the
>>>>> member state chairs and their Regional Representatives and Alternates.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> In Liberty,
>>>>>
>>>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>>
>>>>> Region 1 Representative
>>>>>
>>>>> (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>>>>> Washington)
>>>>>
>>>>> Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Caryn. Can you provide an alternative example and how we might
>>>>> modify the proposed statement to address that alternative?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Celebrate Life, Set the Bar High and LIVE FREE!*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *The Invisible Hand of Self-Interest is Mightier Than the Sword of
>>>>> Government!*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org
>>>>> <lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org>] *On Behalf Of *Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, June 26, 2016 10:59 AM
>>>>> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> *Cc:* david.demarest at firstdata.com; David Demarest <secretary at lpne.org>;
>>>>> lnc-business <lnc-business at lp.org>
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] details for electronic mail ballots
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes that is what I was thinking- a policy manual section.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> David also, not all reps serve at the pleasure of the state chairs-
>>>>> that is the default.  The region agreement can specify otherwise.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* David Demarest [mailto:secretary at lpne.org <secretary at lpne.org>]
>>>>>
>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, June 26, 2016 11:13 AM
>>>>> *To:* 'Sam Goldstein' <goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com>; '
>>>>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org' <lnc-business at hq.lp.org>
>>>>> *Cc:* 'lnc-business' <lnc-business at lp.org>; '
>>>>> david.demarest at firstdata.com' <david.demarest at firstdata.com>
>>>>> *Subject:* RE: [Lnc-business] details for electronic mail ballots
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Sam – makes sense to put it in the policy manual. What is the
>>>>> procedure to get a Regional Representative responsibilities statement added
>>>>> to the policy manual?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> By the way, the original idea for the following suggested policy
>>>>> statement came from the fertile mind of Brett Bittner, Region 3
>>>>> Representative. Thanks Brett!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> LNC regional representatives and alternates who serve at the pleasure
>>>>> of the region member state chairs are encouraged to provide a transparent
>>>>> channel that facilitates mutually supportive communication between the LNC
>>>>> and officers and members of the regional state organizations. Actual
>>>>> regional organization policies are left to the discretion of and agreement
>>>>> between the member state chairs and their regional representatives and
>>>>> alternates.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Any suggested revisions to the above text?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *The Invisible Hand of Self-Interest is Mightier Than the Sword of
>>>>> Government!*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org
>>>>> <lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org>] *On Behalf Of *Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, June 26, 2016 11:16 AM
>>>>> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> *Cc:* david.demarest at firstdata.com; lnc-business <lnc-business at lp.org>
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] details for electronic mail ballots
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> David, can you start a new thread with the right title?  This is still
>>>>> under "electronic email ballot" and will be impossible to find in the
>>>>> future.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In Liberty,
>>>>>
>>>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>>
>>>>> Region 1 Representative
>>>>>
>>>>> (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>>>>> Washington)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 10:13 AM, David Demarest <secretary at lpne.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Sam – makes sense to put it in the policy manual. What is the
>>>>> procedure to get a Regional Representative responsibilities statement added
>>>>> to the policy manual?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> By the way, the original idea for the following suggested policy
>>>>> statement came from the fertile mind of Brett Bittner, Region 3
>>>>> Representative. Thanks Brett!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> LNC regional representatives and alternates who serve at the pleasure
>>>>> of the region member state chairs are encouraged to provide a transparent
>>>>> channel that facilitates mutually supportive communication between the LNC
>>>>> and officers and members of the regional state organizations. Actual
>>>>> regional organization policies are left to the discretion of and agreement
>>>>> between the member state chairs and their regional representatives and
>>>>> alternates.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Any suggested revisions to the above text?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *The Invisible Hand of Self-Interest is Mightier Than the Sword of
>>>>> Government!*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>>>>>
>>>>> Secretary, Nebraska Libertarian State Central Committee
>>>>>
>>>>> Region 6 Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>
>>>>> Secretary at LPNE.org
>>>>>
>>>>> David.Demarest at LP.org
>>>>>
>>>>> DPDemarest at centurylink.net
>>>>>
>>>>> David.Demarest at firstdata.com
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.LPNE.org <http://www.lpne.org/>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.LP.org <http://www.lp.org/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Cell:      402-981-6469
>>>>>
>>>>> Home: 402-493-0873
>>>>>
>>>>> Office: 402-222-7207
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Sam Goldstein [mailto:goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com]
>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, June 26, 2016 10:37 AM
>>>>> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> *Cc:* lnc-business <lnc-business at lp.org>; david.demarest at firstdata.com;
>>>>> David Demarest <secretary at lpne.org>
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] details for electronic mail ballots
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> David,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The LNC has no power to change the By-Laws, only the delegates in
>>>>> convention.  The LNC can amend the Policy Manual so it might be best to
>>>>> look for a place to insert your suggested Regional Representative
>>>>> responsiblities language in that document.  There are very few mentions of
>>>>> Regional Reps in the current language and the only responsibility outlined
>>>>> is the Regional Report to be submitted prior to every LNC meeting.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Having a definition inserted in the Policy Manual would help future
>>>>> newbies in determining their role and might encourage more people to seed a
>>>>> spot from their region.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Live Free,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sam Goldstein
>>>>>
>>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>
>>>>> Member at Large
>>>>>
>>>>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>>>>
>>>>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>>>>
>>>>> 317-850-0726 Phone
>>>>>
>>>>> 317-582-1773 Fax
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 9:33 AM, David Demarest <
>>>>> dpdemarest at centurylink.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Alicia – Thank you for very clear and unambiguous instructions and
>>>>> procedures on LNC email balloting – very helpful to us newcomers on the
>>>>> board!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On a similar but separate subject, at your convenience when your
>>>>> schedule is not so crazy, I would appreciate receiving similar instructions
>>>>> and procedures excerpted from the bylaws or elsewhere in LNC documentation
>>>>> that  clearly delineates the roles and responsibilities of regional
>>>>> representatives and their alternates. With Caryn Ann Harlos' help, I see
>>>>> some of region structure mechanical details. However, I have not been able
>>>>> to locate any LNC documentation that spells out regional representative and
>>>>> alternate roles and responsibilities.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Caryn Ann and I have discussed a possible default description of
>>>>> regional representative and alternate roles and responsibilities. I submit
>>>>> the following for discussion:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> LNC regional representatives and alternates who serve at the pleasure
>>>>> of the region member state chairs are encouraged to provide a transparent
>>>>> channel that facilitates mutually supportive communication between the LNC
>>>>> and officers and members of the regional state organizations. Actual
>>>>> regional organization policies are left to the discretion of and agreement
>>>>> between the member state chairs and their regional representatives and
>>>>> alternates.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Question: Should the above be offered as a motion or as an amendment
>>>>> to the bylaws? If a motion is appropriate, in addition to Caryn, are there
>>>>> two more board members that would like to co-sponsor such a motion
>>>>> following discussion and revisions?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Celebrate Life, Set the Bar High and LIVE FREE!*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>>>>>
>>>>> Secretary, Nebraska Libertarian State Central Committee
>>>>>
>>>>> Region 6 Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>
>>>>> Secretary at LPNE.org
>>>>>
>>>>> David.Demarest at LP.org
>>>>>
>>>>> DPDemarest at centurylink.net
>>>>>
>>>>> David.Demarest at firstdata.com
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.LPNE.org <http://www.lpne.org/>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.LP.org <http://www.lp.org/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Cell:      402-981-6469
>>>>>
>>>>> Home: 402-493-0873
>>>>>
>>>>> Office: 402-222-7207
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> In Liberty,
>>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>> Region 1 Representative
>>>> (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>>>> Washington)
>>>> Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> In Liberty,
>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>> Region 1 Representative
>> (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>> Washington)
>> Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>
>

-- 
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Region 1 Representative
(Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
Washington)
Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
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