[Lnc-business] Compiling agenda for July 17 meeting

Sun Jul 3 16:04:55 EDT 2016

Aaron,

==Different LNCs have handled vacancies in various ways over time, so I
place no value to precedent here. ==

Yet it is *this LNC*'s precedence that is being referred to.  Less than two
months ago.  Not another LNC,and not over time.

== Both positions have legitimate arguments and I don’t have a strong
opinion either way.==

Agreed.  But one of those was the position of this present group.  I do
think the JC reasonable in coming to their decision.  But that is not the
one we came to.

==In my opinion, expediency seemed to be the main driver of the recent LNC
decision. After a long convention there was pressure to come to an
immediate decision and, unlike the JC, we had pending business before us
and did not want to conduct it while being short by three people.==

As someone who voted on that decision, expediency wasn't a driver of my
decision whatsoever.  This is a situation entirely of our own making (I am
using that as meaning the organization where the buck stops - the LNC -
where it was not assured - by us - that the delegates had time to properly
vote.)  People ran for these positions.  Delegates voted.

While I do not think that the LNC choosing is *per se *wrong-- in fact we
have that explicit authority-- I find the deviation from our method of less
than two months ago deeply disturbing.  If this is the right thing to do,
then our prior three appointments were done wrong, and because we were
"tired."  Well it is our job to operate well when tired or stressed.  I
don't believe we made the wrong decision before, and I believe it is still
the right decision today.

*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>

On Sun, Jul 3, 2016 at 1:52 PM, Aaron Starr <starrcpa at gmail.com> wrote:

> Different LNCs have handled vacancies in various ways over time, so I
> place no value to precedent here.  Recently, the Judicial Committee took
> the position that anyone who ran and did not receive a majority was an
> indication that they were rejected by the convention, so they chose people
> who did not run. In contrast, the Libertarian National Committee recently
> took the position that support by some – though less than a majority – was
> a sufficient indicator of acceptance, so they chose the next ranking
> individuals. Both bodies came to opposite conclusions based on the
> identical scenario.  Both positions have legitimate arguments and I don’t
> have a strong opinion either way.
>
>
>
> In my opinion, expediency seemed to be the main driver of the recent LNC
> decision. After a long convention there was pressure to come to an
> immediate decision and, unlike the JC, we had pending business before us
> and did not want to conduct it while being short by three people.
>
>
>
> That is no longer the environment. I suggest we open up the application
> process to anyone interested in serving. With only one vacancy we can
> operate reasonably well, and can afford to go through a recruitment and
> interviewing process to find the one who can contribute the most to our
> organization’s future. And if after going through that process that person
> turns out to be the next ranking vote recipient from the convention, that’s
> fine with me.
>
>
>
> Aaron Starr
>
> (805) 583-3308 Home
>
> (805) 404-8693 Mobile
>
> starrcpa at gmail.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Caryn Ann Harlos
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 03, 2016 8:25 AM
> *To:* ken.moellman at lpky.org
> *Cc:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] Compiling agenda for July 17 meeting
>
>
>
> It is a matter of time and precedent.  The fact is that Dr Feldman himself
> was appointed in this manner.  We are not even one meeting out.  If this is
> illegitimate then the three seats filled in this way are- including Dr
> Feldman.
>
>
>
> Because we did not give the delegates and candidates what they deserved to
> have - full opportunity to vote- then we are in the position basically of
> treating it like ranked choice - and that fault is on is.
>
>
>
> These people cared enough to run.  No one else did.
>
>
>
> *In Liberty,*
>
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org
>
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>
>
> On Sunday, July 3, 2016, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org> wrote:
>
> Question: when does "the precedent" stop?  What percentage approval is too
> low?
>
>
>
> ---
>
> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
> LPKY Judicial Committee
>
>
>
> On 2016-07-03 10:52, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>
> We used this method just over a month ago to seat two of our present
> members.  I strongly urge considering that not even one meeting has passed
> that we be consistent and use that method in this time.  While definitely
> imperfect it measures two thing:  the wishes of the delegates and the fact
> that these persons cared enough to run for the position.  This early from
> the convention, I would be highly reluctant to vote for someone who had not
> previously run.  Why not?  These people did run, and the fact is that we do
> not know the ultimate preferences of the delegates since they were (utterly
> unfairly in my mind) denied the chance for subsequent ballots.  The next in
> line candidates are close in number to ones we have seated, and if that was
> legitimate (and it passed), this is legitimate. I see absolutely no reason
> not to follow the precedent we set just over a month ago.  If more time had
> passed, then yes.  And are there issues with our current system?  Yes
> (though I would solve them differently than Ken suggested... maybe).  But
> that is a rabbit trail that is neither here nor there to issue before us.
>
>
>
> We have a precedent.  If we torpedo it now, we basically are saying the
> two seats we filled already in that manner we wrong.
>
>
>
> I object to polling the delegates after the fact as it gives the potential
> candidates another potential opportunity "to run" and if we are going to do
> that, it should be open to anyone.  And then we are doing convention via
> email.
>
>
>
> *In Liberty,*
>
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org
>
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 3, 2016 at 8:20 AM, Starchild <sfdreamer at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> I'm with Ken in strongly preferring Instant Runoff Voting, and strongly
> agree we should ditch Approval Voting.
>
>
>
> As for what to do in the meantime, I think we should poll the 2016
> Convention Delegates. We presumably have email addresses for most if not
> all of them. I believe most of them would rather be asked their opinion,
> than have the LNC just filling its own vacancies unilaterally.
>
>
>
> Love & Liberty,
>
>                                                  ((( starchild )))
>
> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee (2016-2018)
>
>                                       RealReform at earthlink.net
>
>                                                (415) 625-FREE
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 3, 2016, at 6:57 AM, Ken Moellman wrote:
>
>
>
> I personally do not feel like just going down the list of people is
> actually appropriate, given how approval voting actually works. Our bylaws
> specifically state "The top five candidates receiving a *majority* vote
> of the ballots cast shall be elected. Tie votes affecting the outcome shall
> be decided by lot." (emphasis added).
>
> If the body follows "the precedent", we're literally under 1/3rd
> convention body approval for the next candidate in line.  I do not know the
> person personally, and don't mean this to be any sort of personal attack or
> anything. My concern is that there's a real possibility that given a 1/3rd
> approval that up to 2/3rds would disapprove; mathematically, it becomes
> more and more likely that we'd be selecting someone that the convention
> body actually wouldn't approve of. This "next person in line" methodology
> fails without being able to track preference.
>
> Given that candidate preference cannot be tracked using Approval Voting,
> I'm not sure that there's a real mechanism to select someone in accordance
> with the actual wishes of the convention body. And if we continue this
> precedent, it's going to break Approval Voting entirely anyway as people
> begin using strategic bulleted voting more and more.
>
> I very much think we need to switch to another system - I personally
> prefer Instant Runoff - so we have definitive winners and clear convention
> body preference for runners-up in the future.
>
> For this and all subsequent vacancies, I suggest a thoughtful deliberation
> on the appointment and not just an automatic "next in line" strategic, so
> long as Approval Voting is in place.
>
> ---
>
> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
> LPKY Judicial Committee
>
>
>
> On 2016-07-03 08:46, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>
> That is in fact my strong preference as well.  The convention just
> happened.  The delegates and candidates who cared to run and put effort
> into it (some of them actively campaigning) were give short shrift, and
> this rankles me even now.  The only metric we have of their preference is
> these votes.
>
>
>
> *In Liberty,*
>
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org
>
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 3, 2016 at 6:40 AM, Sam Goldstein <goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Alicia.  I know the Chair is planning to place the At Large
> opening on the agenda for the next LNC meeting.  Since I will be
>
> unable to attend, I'd prefer to address this matter in an e-mail ballot
> following discussion and nominations.
>
>
>
> Our precedent is to look to the At Large voting at the convention and to
> take the delegate's stated preferences to heart when filling
>
> vacancies of this nature.
>
>
>
> Live Free,
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sam Goldstein
>
> Libertarian National Committee
>
> Member at Large
>
> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>
> Indianapolis IN 46260
>
> 317-850-0726 Phone
>
> 317-582-1773 Fax
>
> On Sun, Jul 3, 2016 at 4:23 AM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Will we be publishing something to advertise the vacancy and invite
> applicants?
>
> -Alicia
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 7:49 AM, Nicholas Sarwark <chair at lp.org> wrote:
>
> Dear All,
>
> I'm putting together a proposed agenda for the July 17 meeting in Las
> Vegas.  I am already planning to include time for discussion of
> filling the At-Large vacancy created by Dr. Feldman's death,
> population of the Audit Committee, and discussion of creating a
> national reregistration week (at the request of Mr. Somes).
>
> If you have other items that you would like to add to the proposed
> agenda, please email me with a description and the amount of time you
> would like on the agenda.  As a reminder, we will only be having a
> one-day meeting in Las Vegas, so we will need to be efficient with our
> time.  To that end, we will have a working lunch brought in so as to
> avoid losing committee members for that time.
>
> Yours in liberty,
> Nick
>
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>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *In Liberty,*
>
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org
>
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *In Liberty,*
>
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org
>
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *In Liberty,*
>
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>
>

-- 
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
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