[Lnc-business] Functional and transparent committees
Caryn Ann Harlos
carynannharlos at gmail.com
Tue Jul 26 10:23:03 EDT 2016
The idea of a group to go through the policy manual to consolidate etc is a
separate issue from my proposal and I would love to see it taken up
separately and not used to derail this topic.
The APRC is already exempt from this and I made allowance for this in my
specific proposal. I also made allowance that committees could have
"executive session" standing rules. The whole purpose is if we are going
to delegate LNC responsibility- the same transparency should go with it.
These "what ifs" are *already transparent if the LNC simply decides to not
delegate." This is re-fighting a battle already won for our members and I
believe our present Chair ran originally on a promise of that particular
battle.
Again, for those of us speaking for regions - do our regions really want
opacity? Or transparency?
I am still not seeing any debate on the merits of what was *actually*
proposed.
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
On Tuesday, July 26, 2016, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ken.moellman at lpky.org');>> wrote:
>
> My point on the matter is that we already have way too many rules. If
> anything, I would suggest that we need a group to go through the policy
> manual and figure out what can be made more concise and/or reasonably
> purged. I'm not suggesting "no rules", but the policy manual is a bit
> ridiculous.
>
> I'm obviously not opposed to making sure there's accountability within
> party leadership. I would suggest, however, that there's a balance to be
> struck in almost anything. I'm not so sure that it's a good idea to have
> full transparency in committees responsible for messaging, for instance.
> Likewise, any strategic committee may not want the strategy exposed to the
> whole world.
>
>
> ---
>
> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
> LPKY Judicial Committee
>
>
>
> On 2016-07-26 08:57, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>
> Organizational guidelines and rules are not about agression solely and do
> not conform to action prohibitions only, and nearly anything can be phrased
> that way.
>
> My "be transparent" becomes "don't be secret."
>
> Particularly after the DNC email scandal we as an LNC should be showing
> that the transparency we already put in place for us extends to our
> committees.
>
> More practically- this member will not be voting to fund or empower any
> committee that does not include transparency (unless there is positive case
> made for exemption).
>
> I ask again to those speaking for a region: do your members want
> transparency?
>
> I believe our members want transparency. I doubt our members want their
> access to transparency being sidetracked by internal angst about an extra
> paragraph in the policy manual. Which is now precisely what is being done
> and the merits of transparency ate being lost.
>
> *In Liberty,*
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2016, David Demarest <dpdemarest at centurylink.net>
> wrote:
>
>> I am sympathetic to both Caryn's and Ken's positions. Rules are important
>> but we don't want to get bogged down in authoritarian bureaucracy. I
>> suggest confining rules to action prohibitions, NAP as a simple example,
>> and reserving actionable social contract "rules", the Golden Rule as a
>> simple example, for philosophical statements of purpose and guidelines.
>>
>>
>>
>> Action prohibition rules are typically simple in nature, limited in
>> number and relatively easy to enforce whereas the sky is the limit on
>> actionable social contracts. We can wisely choose individually and
>> collectively which actionable social contracts we can make effective use of
>> without getting mired in the quicksand of authoritarian bureaucracy.
>>
>>
>>
>> *POLITICIANS are for TODAY – INTELLECTUALS are for the AGES!*
>>
>>
>>
>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>>
>> Region 6 Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>>
>> DPDemarest at centurylink.net
>>
>> David.Demarest at firstdata.com
>>
>> Cell: 402-981-6469
>>
>> Home: 402-493-0873
>>
>> Office: 402-222-7207
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] *On Behalf
>> Of *Caryn Ann Harlos
>> *Sent:* Monday, July 25, 2016 11:06 PM
>> *To:* ken.moellman at lpky.org
>> *Cc:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] Functional and transparent committees
>>
>>
>>
>> There is nothing magical about considering it in December. Consideration
>> is exactly what I am proposing.
>>
>>
>>
>> I fail to see the relevance of the anarchists comment. Statism isn't bad
>> because they have rules. It is bad because it has involuntary
>> rights-violative rules.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rules are not per se bad. Voluntary rules and agreements (contracts) are
>> the only way voluntary societies can work.
>>
>>
>>
>> Having committees not subject to the same transparency of the LNC is a
>> flaw in our rules. A rather large one.
>>
>>
>>
>> How about rather than wondering if the PM is too long we ask the members
>> if they prefer transparency? I have yet to receive a negative response to
>> this question other than allowing for the potential for executive session
>> or specific exemption - to which I agree. Do Region 3 members feel
>> otherwise? My sense of Region 1 is that they favour transparency and I
>> don't think we are atypical. (Fwiw I think our PM is too short - but I
>> have never been a fan of the brevity caucus in any form- as evidenced by my
>> 41 page Regional Report)
>>
>>
>>
>> This seems to me to not be dealing with the merits or lack of merits of
>> the change itself.
>>
>>
>>
>> It needs consideration - agreed. That is the goal of my discussion
>> initiation.
>>
>>
>> On Monday, July 25, 2016, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I think there's plenty of opportunity to hammer out issues, pass motions,
>> and whatnot. However, when we start talking about changing the Policy
>> Manual, a document that stands as living proof that the only group with
>> more rules than statists are anarchists, I think it's prudent to consider
>> the matter before adding yet another rule to something only slightly
>> shorter than a Dostoyevsky novel. I mean, there are governments with fewer
>> rules than what's in that monster. Seriously.
>>
>>
>>
>> ken
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2016-07-25 21:41, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>
>> Ken I want to quickly give committees such power (but let me be clear -
>> it is not just spending that propels me to want transparency). We just
>> empowered ASC with this and our Chair suggested we might want to entertain
>> a Candidate support committee - this cannot wait in my view.
>>
>>
>>
>> Our reluctance to only take up things more than four times a
>> year baffles and frustrates me. I couldn't imagine the LPCO functioning
>> properly that way - much less the LNC.
>>
>>
>>
>> Why wait?
>>
>>
>> On Monday, July 25, 2016, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org> wrote:
>>
>> As the chair of a committee with no such empowerment, I would note that
>> if there's concern, then perhaps committees shouldn't be given spending
>> power until it is resolved. Alternately, perhaps the policy manual addition
>> should only initially apply to committees with the ability to spend.
>>
>> ken
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2016-07-25 21:11, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>
>> My intent is to try to hash out via email and propose for a Sept meeting
>> if we can't agree via email.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, July 25, 2016, Starchild <sfdreamer at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> I agree there's no reason to wait half a year. Getting functional
>> committees should be a high priority, in my opinion. We've got plenty of
>> time to discuss the issue via email, or at an online meeting in September.
>>
>>
>>
>> Love & Liberty,
>>
>> ((( starchild )))
>>
>> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>>
>> RealReform at earthlink.net
>>
>> (415) 625-FREE
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 25, 2016, at 6:00 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I would like to try to get this in place sooner. We are empowering
>> committees to spend money - we need transparency. Dec is- IMHO- too late.
>>
>> On Monday, July 25, 2016, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Well, I have input on the subject that I'd like to discuss it at the DC
>> meeting. So I guess both go hand-in-hand. :)
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2016-07-25 20:49, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>
>> Now that everyone has come alive - could I persuade discussion on my
>> committee transparency email thread?
>>
>> On Monday, July 25, 2016, Sam Goldstein <goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Since we are doing the party's business I have no problem with spending
>> members contributions to conduct our meetings in a space designed for that
>> purpose. LNC members spend their own money and use their valuable time for
>> these meetings and to take us to also
>>
>> contribute to paying for meeting space is the height of absurdity.
>>
>>
>>
>> If certain members object to the practice then I suggest they resign from
>> the committee so as not to violate their principles.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sam
>>
>>
>> Sam Goldstein
>>
>> Libertarian National Committee
>>
>> Member at Large
>>
>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>
>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>
>> 317-850-0726 Phone
>>
>> 317-582-1773 Fax
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 8:23 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> While I enjoy being outside, I must concur with Mr. Bittner. It might be
>> a little chilly and windy in December for an outdoor meeting in DC.
>>
>>
>>
>> Now, if we're meeting by a pool in Orlando, or on the beach in Tampa,
>> well... I'm in!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2016-07-25 20:20, Brett Bittner wrote:
>>
>> Based on my experiences since moving north from Georgia, it might be a
>> bit chilly to meet outside in December in Alexandria/the DC area.
>>
>>
>> Brett C. Bittner
>>
>>
>>
>> Region 3 Representative
>>
>> Libertarian National Committee <http://lp.org/>
>>
>>
>>
>> brett.bittner at lp.org
>>
>> 317.699.2611
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 8:14 PM, Starchild <sfdreamer at earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> It would be nice to be out in the fresh air, and wouldn't waste hundreds
>> of dollars of our supporters' money that could be going toward outreach
>> instead. When people came over and asked what we were doing, it would be an
>> opportunity for staff or observers to give them some literature and turn
>> them on to libertarianism and the LP. But I realize that some of you value
>> comfort and dignity more than saving the party money or advancing the cause
>> of freedom, so I'm willing to compromise and meet in a back room at a
>> restaurant or something. Personally I oppose paying for meeting space when
>> it is unnecessary to do so unless LNC members are willing to spend *their
>> own* money on it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Love & Liberty,
>>
>> ((( starchild )))
>>
>> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>>
>> RealReform at earthlink.net
>>
>> (415) 625-FREE
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 25, 2016, at 4:56 PM, Sam Goldstein wrote:
>>
>> The Alexandria meetings have been at the Residence Inn Alexandria at 1456
>> Duke St. It is about 2 blocks from the LP office. That is no guarantee
>> that we will have it there again. Starchild might prefer to stage the
>> meeting on the National Mall.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sam Goldstein
>>
>> Libertarian National Committee
>>
>> Member at Large
>>
>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>
>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>
>> 317-850-0726 Phone
>>
>> 317-582-1773 Fax
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 7:42 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Do we know what hotel the next meeting will be at?
>> --
>>
>> *In Liberty,*
>>
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) -
>> Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>
>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
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>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *In Liberty,*
>>
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) -
>> Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>
>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *In Liberty,*
>>
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) -
>> Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>
>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *In Liberty,*
>>
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) -
>> Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>
>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *In Liberty,*
>>
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) -
>> Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>
>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *In Liberty,*
>>
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>> Harlos at LP.org
>>
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>
>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *In Liberty,*
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
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