[Lnc-business] Newbie question - Membership Report

Sat Aug 6 11:24:44 EDT 2016

I would venture to say that almost no one gives a damn other than if
membership number are growing or shrinking.  And, of course, if your state
is in the Top Ten!

Sam Goldstein
Libertarian National Committee
Member at Large
8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
Indianapolis IN 46260
317-850-0726 Phone
317-582-1773 Fax

On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Brett, I agree with you.  Typical members will have zero idea what any of
> that means.  Of course, many typical members do not get into that
> granularly, they just want the big picture which is very easy to ascertain
> from the wonderful graphs.
>
> *In Liberty,*
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:06 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> Thank you Wes, that was clear and straightforward.
>>
>> It seems to me that this "active mem" number is not terribly meaningful
>> then for the membership report.  A member said to me that this also might
>> include some "lifetime donors" that get benefits but are not accorded BSM
>> membership under some old scheme.  Is this correct?
>>
>> I know to some people this seems hopelessly pedantic.  I am a paralegal.
>> I am hopelessly pedantic.  It is my super power.  But at least you know I
>> truly examined this document.
>>
>> *In Liberty,*
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
>> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>> Harlos at LP.org
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:06 AM, Wes Benedict <wes.benedict at lp.org> wrote:
>>
>>> If John signed the pledge and paid dues on 1/1/2015, then, at that
>>> point, their "Active Membership" and "Sustaining Membership" both expire on
>>> 1/1/2016.
>>>
>>> We start sending renewal letters and renewal emails before people's
>>> memberships expire.
>>>
>>> If John renews his dues on 11/1/2015 (2 months before his expiration
>>> date), then his "Active Membership" is extended to 1/1/2017 (per the policy
>>> manual), but his "Sustaining Membership" will expire 11/1/2016 (per the
>>> bylaws).
>>>
>>> The above kind of thing is one example of how the two sets of numbers
>>> can vary--sometimes records aren't 100% complete updated right when a
>>> report is run as well. And sometimes errors are made.
>>>
>>>
>>> Wes Benedict, Executive Director
>>> Libertarian National Committee, Inc.
>>> 1444 Duke St., Alexandria, VA 22314(202) 333-0008 ext. 232, wes.benedict at lp.orgfacebook.com/libertarians @LPNational
>>> Join the Libertarian Party at: http://lp.org/membership
>>>
>>> On 8/6/2016 10:52 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>
>>> Wes, yes please!
>>>
>>> I am asking members and no one seems to understand this.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 8:50 AM, Wes Benedict <wes.benedict at lp.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Cary, do you want me to answer this question?
>>>>
>>>> Wes Benedict, Executive Director
>>>> Libertarian National Committee, Inc.
>>>> 1444 Duke St., Alexandria, VA 22314(202) 333-0008 ext. 232, wes.benedict at lp.orgfacebook.com/libertarians @LPNational
>>>> Join the Libertarian Party at: http://lp.org/membership
>>>>
>>>> On 8/6/2016 10:37 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Well you couldn't have signed the Pledge in 1971 since it wasn't around
>>>> then ;)
>>>>
>>>> But I am still confused by your example.  Maybe here is the better
>>>> question to help me.
>>>>
>>>> What does one have to do to have "member benefits" that are not
>>>> co-extensive with BSM?  Because it says "active mems" have signed the
>>>> Pledge.
>>>>
>>>> Does this just mean a contribution under $25?
>>>>
>>>> How can you be an active pledge-signer member (for active mem) and not
>>>> be a BSM?  The only way I can see that is if one gave less than $25.
>>>>
>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 8:28 AM, Robert Kraus <robert.kraus at lp.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I amy have signed the NAP in 1971. Doesn’t matter when I signed the
>>>>> NAP or if I signed the NAP ( for my active membership benefits expire date).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> But in this example the ONLY thing the bylaws care about is that I
>>>>> contributed $25 within the last year.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thus the last time I did this was $25 on 07/01/15 thus I am no longer
>>>>> a BSM as of 07/01/16.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Now on the “membership benefits side” – which the Policy Manual
>>>>> dictates – I get my “benefits” expire date updated by 12 months from my
>>>>> previous date. So if my previous expire date was 08/30/15 and I renewed
>>>>> early on 07/01/15 my new expire date is 08/30/16. Thus you can say my BSM
>>>>> ended on 07/01/16 yet my ?membership benefits” expire date ends on 08/30/16.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My BSM would not end on 08/30/16 simply because that would violate the
>>>>> bylaws since I had not given since 07/01/15.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Keep in mind it really doesn’t matter when your BSM “ends” except for
>>>>> counts for delegates 6 months pior to a convention or your status on the
>>>>> LNC or JC which requires you to be a BSM.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Live Free!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Robert*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert S. Kraus - Dir of Operations
>>>>> Operations at LP.org
>>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>> Ph: 202.333.0008 x 231
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Join today: https://www.lp.org/membership
>>>>>
>>>>> LP FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/libertarians
>>>>> size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] *On
>>>>> Behalf Of *Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 06, 2016 10:16 AM
>>>>>
>>>>> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] Newbie question - Membership Report
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ahh okay (you messed up a date in there, I think you meant 7/1/16 in
>>>>> the example of BSM expiring).  Is that number even meaningful for
>>>>> membership stats?  It is really terribly confusing.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems in most cases that the two dates would be concurrent.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So in your above example, you had "membership benefits" due to paying
>>>>> some money around 8/30/14 prior to agreeing with the NAP which was done on
>>>>> 7/1/15.  Because if you had agreed with the NAP and paid money on 8/30/14
>>>>> and renewed early on 7/1/15, your BSM membership would still go through
>>>>> 8/30/16, correct?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am I understanding this now?  If I am, I am going to write up a
>>>>> mini-article on this to explain it to others.  I cannot be the only one
>>>>> confounded by this, no one just wasn't obsessed enough to pursue an answer
>>>>> since the numbers were negligible.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>
>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>
>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
>>>>> - Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 8:06 AM, Robert Kraus <robert.kraus at lp.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry meant I would be a BSM until 07/01/2016 not 15.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] *On
>>>>> Behalf Of *Robert Kraus
>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 06, 2016 10:05 AM
>>>>> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] Newbie question - Membership Report
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Simple explanation: BSM (Sustaining Membership) is per the bylaws
>>>>> which basically says you are a sustaining member if you contribute a total
>>>>> of $25 within a year and agree to the NAP
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Example – I agree with the NAP and paid $25 for anything on 07/01/2015
>>>>> thus I was a “BSM” until 07/01/2015 (I am no longer a “BSM” in this example)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The “Active” (doesn’t matter Mem or Sub) part is dictated by the
>>>>> policy manual and relates to “membership benefits” like LP News. For
>>>>> example I paid $25 on 07/01/15 to renew my “active membership” but my
>>>>> benefits did not expire until 08/30/15. In other words in this example I
>>>>> renewed early. According to our rules my “expire” date for “membership
>>>>> benefits” would be extended by one year. Thus my new “active membership
>>>>> expire date” is 08/30/16. So I am “active” until the end of this month even
>>>>> though I am no longer a BSM.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So if I come from the state of PR and am the only “active” member – my
>>>>> state will show zero (0) for BSM and one (1) for MEM.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Live Free!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Robert*
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert S. Kraus - Dir of Operations
>>>>> Operations at LP.org
>>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>> Ph: 202.333.0008 x 231 <202.333.0008%20x%20231>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Join today: https://www.lp.org/membership
>>>>>
>>>>> LP FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/libertarians
>>>>>
>>>>> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] *On
>>>>> Behalf Of *Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 06, 2016 8:47 AM
>>>>> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] Newbie question - Membership Report
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> First line should say on "page 2" of the report.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 6:46 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Joshua, let me explain.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There are five columns on page of the report.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 1.  Total "MEM" - this is the total number of constituents in state
>>>>> that have signed the pledge - whether they have paid dues or not.  It
>>>>> includes inactive folks who are not reflected on this chart.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2.   Active "MEM"- Current Dues Payer or Lifetime Donor with a signed
>>>>> pledge
>>>>>
>>>>> 3.  Active "SUB" - Current due payer or lifetime donors who have not
>>>>> signed the Pledge
>>>>>
>>>>> 4.  Total Active - that is just adding numbers 2 and numbers 3.
>>>>>
>>>>> 5. Total BSM- By-Law Definition of "Sustaining Member" and number used
>>>>> for delegate count with a parenthetical comment of Art 5-3 that a
>>>>> Sustaining member is any Party member who has given at least $25 to the
>>>>> party in the prior twelve months, or who is a life member.  By that
>>>>> definition, a Pledge signer.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What is the different between Numbers 2 and Number 5?  Dues payers?
>>>>> Check.  Lifetime donors?  Check.  Signed Pledge?  Check.  That is true for
>>>>> both of those categories, so what is the difference?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And the different between those numbers in the states is only a few
>>>>> people, and in some states (such as Hawaii, Nebraska, Rhode Island, South
>>>>> Carolina), they are exactly the same.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>
>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>
>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
>>>>> - Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 6:04 AM, Joshua Katz <
>>>>> planning4liberty at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Active subs need not sign the pledge, I agree.  I don't see that this
>>>>> challenges what I said, that MEM don't pay dues and BSM do.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>>>>
>>>>> Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 1:40 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I really suggest reading the categories in the membership report -
>>>>> that isn't the difference here.  There is a categories for non-pledgers -
>>>>> "active subs" - that doesn't answer the difference between "active mem" and
>>>>> BSM.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Friday, August 5, 2016, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> To become a member, one signs the pledge.  To become a
>>>>> bylaws-sustaining member, one pays dues.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>>>>
>>>>> Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 9:42 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> hehe
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> But I did read it.  It doesn't answer  my question.  So perhaps it
>>>>> needs to be longer to answer my question.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 7:16 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (If only the policy manual weren't so long...  Sorry, I couldn't
>>>>> resist. Heh.)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>>
>>>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>>>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2016-08-05 20:41, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you Robert, I did, and perhaps I am being slow, that doesn't
>>>>> explain to me the difference between Active MEM and BSM.  It seems to me
>>>>> those two categories are identical, yet for nearly every state they vary by
>>>>> a few.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>
>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>
>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
>>>>> - Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 6:07 PM, Robert Kraus <robert.kraus at lp.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> See policy manual:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Section 2.05 MEMBERSHIP POLICIES......................
>>>>> ..........................................................36
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) Membership Forms ..............................
>>>>> ............................................................
>>>>> ..............36
>>>>>
>>>>> 2) Association Levels ..............................
>>>>> ............................................................
>>>>> ...............36
>>>>>
>>>>> 3) Life Membership Status........................
>>>>> ............................................................
>>>>> .............36
>>>>>
>>>>> 4) Benefits ..............................
>>>>> ............................................................
>>>>> ................................36
>>>>>
>>>>> 5) Benefits Lapse Date ..............................
>>>>> ............................................................
>>>>> .............38
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Live Free!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Robert*
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert S. Kraus - Dir of Operations
>>>>> Operations at LP.org
>>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>> Ph: 202.333.0008 x 231
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Join today: https://www.lp.org/membership
>>>>>
>>>>> LP FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/libertarians
>>>>>
>>>>> size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] *On
>>>>> Behalf Of *Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, August 05, 2016 7:44 PM
>>>>> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> *Subject:* [Lnc-business] Newbie question - Membership Report
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Can someone please explain to me the different categories?  I am not
>>>>> understanding why these numbers differ.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Let's just take CO as an example:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Active MEM: 524
>>>>>
>>>>> Active SUB-40
>>>>>
>>>>> Total Active-564
>>>>>
>>>>> Total BSM- 525
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is my question.  What is the difference between active  MEM and
>>>>> BSM so that those numbers would differ?  I read the explanation in the
>>>>> legend, but I am not understanding.  It seems like "active" and "BSM" are
>>>>> functionally the same thing.  What am I missing here?  How can there be a
>>>>> difference of "1" between these two numbers in CO?  It seems like these two
>>>>> numbers are near identical but not actually identical in nearly every state.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>
>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>
>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) -
>>>>> Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>
>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>
>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>
>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) -
>>>>> Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>
>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ...
>>
>> [Message clipped]
>
>
>
>
> --
> *In Liberty,*
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>
>
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