[Lnc-business] clarity, please, on gun rights resolution co-sponsors

Fri Aug 12 23:19:20 EDT 2016

You are the best.  Thank you again for your clarity here.

-- 
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:17 PM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson at gmail.com> wrote:

> Alrighty, then.  I'll put out the first one tonight and the second one
> tomorrow.
>
> -Alicia
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 4:21 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Alicia, it is my sense that your approach is the one preferred and you
>> should proceed in that manner.
>>
>> - Caryn Ann Harlos
>>
>>
>> On Friday, August 12, 2016, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, August 11, 2016, Alicia Mattson <agmattson at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> With the clarifications in place, both versions have enough co-sponsors
>>>> for an email ballot:
>>>>
>>>> Version B:  Harlos, Katz, Hayes, Goldstein, Vohra
>>>>
>>>> Version C:  Starchild, Harlos, Vohra, Demarest
>>>>
>>>> I generally try to get email ballots out within 24 hours of when they
>>>> have met the criteria.  Since I know there's side discussion among some of
>>>> the co-sponsors about whether to take another approach, I'm kinda inclined
>>>> to pause briefly to see if they withdraw their sponsorship of this approach
>>>> in favor of an alternative approach.
>>>>
>>>> If I don't hear indicators that change is in the air, I'll proceed with
>>>> the two we have.  Since C is written as an amendment to B, I'll start B on
>>>> one day, start C on the next with the understanding that it is a motion to
>>>> amend something previously adopted.  I will intentionally not vote on C
>>>> until B has ended so as to avoid timing anomalies.
>>>>
>>>> Caryn Ann, by midnight Pacific on Friday night, can you give me a sense
>>>> of whether the co-sponsors are going to make a change, or whether I should
>>>> proceed with the approach that is already lined up?
>>>>
>>>> -Alicia
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Arvin Vohra <votevohra at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm happy to cosponsor both simultaneously
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 1:25 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Alicia, I intend to co-sponsor both.  I was indicating my preference
>>>>>> for Version C ultimately but pragmatically also supporting Version B.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am speaking with my co-sponsors on version C to see which of
>>>>>> several of your options (simultaneous ballots or motion to amend something
>>>>>> previously adopted) they would support as a methodology.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will let you know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 6:24 AM, David Demarest <
>>>>>> dpdemarest at centurylink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alicia, thanks for your attempt to un-muddy the waters on this
>>>>>>> complicated issue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I will co-sponsor version C (Starchild's more strongly worded
>>>>>>> version) and will vote in favor of C and/or B pending the outcome of this
>>>>>>> enlightening discussion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>>>>>>> Cell: 402-981-6469
>>>>>>> Home: 402-493-0873
>>>>>>> Office: 402-222-7207
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] On
>>>>>>> Behalf Of Daniel Hayes
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 12:31 AM
>>>>>>> To: lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] clarity, please, on gun rights
>>>>>>> resolution co-sponsors
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As I already stated I am Co Sponsoring version B with Libertarian
>>>>>>> Party removed and LNC inserted.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For clarity, I am not sponsoring version A, which I had originally
>>>>>>> said I did.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For what it's worth I will NOT vote for version C(like Sam already
>>>>>>> said he would not) if that makes any difference to people in this matter.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Daniel Hayes
>>>>>>> LNC At Large Member
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > On Aug 11, 2016, at 12:01 AM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Well this has gotten messy.  Welcome to the world of email
>>>>>>> ballots.  This is the tip of the iceberg for why RONR 11th ed., in the
>>>>>>> footnote on page 1 states, "A group that attempts to conduct the
>>>>>>> deliberative process in writing—such as by postal mail, electronic mail
>>>>>>> (e-mail), or facsimile transmission (fax)—does not constitute a
>>>>>>> deliberative assembly. When making decisions by such means, many situations
>>>>>>> unprecedented in parliamentary law will arise, and many of its rules and
>>>>>>> customs will not be applicable."
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > At this point I need clarity for who wants what, and perhaps the
>>>>>>> co-sponsors wish to re-think how you want this to happen and maybe
>>>>>>> restructure your motion to achieve that.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > There was Version A with the "Libertarian Party" terminology,
>>>>>>> which didn't make it to 4 co-sponsors and was essentially withdrawn by Ms.
>>>>>>> Harlos in order to put forth Version B.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Version B was Version A but with "Libertarian National Committee"
>>>>>>> terminology instead of "Libertarian Party".  Version B clearly has Katz,
>>>>>>> Hayes, Goldstein as co-sponsors.  Harlos and Vohra see below.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Then Version C is Starchild's amendment of Version B.  Version C
>>>>>>> has Starchild.  Harlos, Vohra, and Demarest see below.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > If the motions aren't restructured, then I need some final-answer
>>>>>>> type clarity in a few places:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > 1)  Vohra - You said you'd co-sponsor either.  Do you mean you're
>>>>>>> going to pick one that is your favorite, or you want to co-sponsor BOTH
>>>>>>> simultaneously?
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > 2)  Demarest - Twice you have said that you'll vote in favor of
>>>>>>> Version C, but voting in favor is a different action from co-sponsoring.  I
>>>>>>> think you probably mean co-sponsor, but I need precise language to make
>>>>>>> sure.  Do you wish to co-sponsor the motion, or you're waiting for others
>>>>>>> to co-sponsor and then you will vote in favor?
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > 3)  Harlos - I need a final answer, as you have changed your mind
>>>>>>> several times.  Without digging back through the chain, working off my
>>>>>>> perhaps-not-precise-but-close memory it went something like this:  you
>>>>>>> co-sponsored B, liked C but stuck with co-sponsoring B, co-sponsored both,
>>>>>>> withdrew co-sponsorship of B, then co-sponsored "either".  As with Mr.
>>>>>>> Vohra, when you say "either" do you mean you're willing to co-sponsor
>>>>>>> whichever one is perceived to be the winner somehow, or you intend to
>>>>>>> co-sponsor both simultaneously?
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > But don't answer yet!  Wait, there's more!  Your answers to the
>>>>>>> above may be moot if you decide to restructure the whole situation.  There
>>>>>>> are several ways this could be done, including:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > A)  The way they are currently phrased, Version C is an amendment
>>>>>>> to Version B.  That means that we'd need 4 co-sponsors of Version B, and 4
>>>>>>> co-sponsors of Version C.  We run two email ballots with Version B starting
>>>>>>> on one day and Version C on the next day as an
>>>>>>> amend-something-previously-adopted.  If Version B is adopted, then
>>>>>>> the next day we find out if Version C successfully amended Version B or
>>>>>>> whether Version B stays as is.  If Version B fails, then Version C becomes
>>>>>>> out of order because it can't amend something that wasn't previously
>>>>>>> adopted.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > B)  If you want a chance to pick between B vs. C situation, and
>>>>>>> then vote on the winner of that contest, you need to re-phrase your
>>>>>>> motions.  This is sorta like a substitution would be in a face-to-face
>>>>>>> meeting.  First you would need a motion that we choose either B or C (but C
>>>>>>> rephrased as a stand-alone motion rather than a strikeout/insert amendment
>>>>>>> to B) to become the next mail ballot to consider for adoption.  We vote B
>>>>>>> vs. C and whichever one wins that duel is then offered as a separate email
>>>>>>> ballot.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > C)  We run two email ballots simultaneously.  One is version B.
>>>>>>> The other is how B would look if amended by C.  Maybe both fail.  Maybe
>>>>>>> both pass.  Maybe one passes and the other fails.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Perhaps some of you talk offline to get aligned on which approach
>>>>>>> to take and then give me 4 clear co-sponsors for that.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > -Alicia
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> > Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>> > Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> > http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Arvin Vohra
>>>>>
>>>>> www.VoteVohra.com
>>>>> VoteVohra at gmail.com
>>>>> (301) 320-3634
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *In Liberty,*
>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> *In Liberty,*
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>
>

-- 
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
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