[Lnc-business] LP Puerto Rico motion
David Demarest
dpdemarest at centurylink.net
Sun Aug 14 08:20:55 EDT 2016
Starchild, thanks for the clarification of the paragraphs after the "AND".
I agree with the general intent of the language designed to empower LP
members from states without an affiliate but still worry about the
representation mechanics. Perhaps that that empowerment could best take
place, as you point out, via states that have rules allowing delegates from
other states. That makes sense to me. However, given our present rules for
establishing relative state affiliate delegation representations that in one
sense reward states for having a state affiliate, how do we reconcile those
rules without rewarding states for not having an affiliate? However, I agree
that Libertarians are good at coming up with innovative solutions to resolve
such issues fairly and effectively.
In summary, I agree with the intent of the paragraph after the "AND" but
would suggest saving that proposal for another motion to be discussed,
debated and clarified separately. Thanks for putting your thoughtful
proposal into words for our consideration.
Celebrate Life, Set the Bar High and LIVE FREE!
~David Pratt Demarest
Region 6 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (IA, IL, MN, MO, NE,
ND, WI)
Cell: 402-981-6469
Home: 402-493-0873
Office: 402-222-7207
From: Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] On Behalf Of
Starchild
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2016 1:12 AM
To: lnc-business at hq.lp.org
Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] LP Puerto Rico motion
Replacing "that advance to" with "and" is a sensible change,
Joshua. I support it. Rather than striking the entire final paragraph
though, I would suggest simply changing "directs" to "requests".
In response to David's concerns, I read the language of the
resolution as broadly descriptive, and not intended to be the actual
language used in a Bylaws amendment. Presumably a Bylaws Committee proposal
would be drafted so as not to skew current representation unfairly. State
delegations accepting delegates from other states seems to me like an
important prerogative of the state affiliates though. While I have heard the
"convention stuffing" concern raised, not everyone views it as a problem. On
the plus side, allowing state affiliates to set their own rules gives the
members some flexibility in terms of how geography-focused they wish to be,
and if the practice were prohibited, our conventions would probably tend to
have fewer attendees. As things stand, members can choose to keep delegates
from other states out of their state delegations by modifying their rules on
a state-by-state basis, and this seems to me like a better approach than
imposing a one-size-fits-all solution via the Bylaws. And of course as
Alicia points out, right now Libertarians from areas lacking a recognized
affiliate can serve as delegates with other states, whereas if this option
were made unavailable they would have no avenue to becoming delegates. Such
areas might potentially include not just territories, but states where no
affiliate is currently recognized.
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
(415) 625-FREE
On Aug 13, 2016, at 10:17 PM, Joshua Katz wrote:
While I understand that concern, keep in mind that no particular change is
being recommended here. Presumably the committee can come up with something
that avoids some, most, or all of the problems mentioned.
As I mentioned before, I'm not in favor of the language after the and, but I
don't think it's fair to judge a request for a proposal as if it were a
fully worked out amendment. In other words, yes, these are concerns, but
they would be concerns, potentially, with language returned, not with this
motion persay.
Joshua A. Katz
Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)
On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 5:41 PM, David Demarest <dpdemarest at centurylink.net
<mailto:dpdemarest at centurylink.net> > wrote:
If requested, I will also co-sponsor the part before the AND with one minor
wordsmithing suggestion:
In the last paragraph before the "AND", I suggest the following
substitution:
Change: .[that advance to] apply for affiliate status,
To: .[and] apply for affiliate status,
The paragraph after the "AND" is an interesting and well-intended
suggestion. However, the current wording, if I understand it correctly, is
somewhat vague and might open the door for unintended consequences including
"convention stuffing" in favor of specific candidates as was alleged to have
occurred at the Orlando convention by taking advantage of states filling
their delegation gaps with qualified Libertarians from other states. I would
like to see different wording in a separate motion but would expect
objections by existing affiliates regarding potential skewed representation
consequences.
Thoughts?
Celebrate Life, Set the Bar High and LIVE FREE!
~David Pratt Demarest
Secretary, Nebraska Libertarian State Central Committee
Region 6 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (IA, IL, MN, MO, NE,
ND, WI)
Nebraska State Coordinator, LP Radical Caucus
Secretary at LPNE.org <mailto:Secretary at LPNE.org>
David.Demarest at LP.org <mailto:David.Demarest at LP.org>
DPDemarest at centurylink.net <mailto:DPDemarest at centurylink.net>
David.Demarest at firstdata.com <mailto:David.Demarest at firstdata.com>
Cell: 402-981-6469 <tel:402-981-6469>
Home: 402-493-0873 <tel:402-493-0873>
Office: 402-222-7207 <tel:402-222-7207>
From: Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org
<mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org> ] On Behalf Of Caryn Ann Harlos
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2016 3:48 PM
To: lnc-business at hq.lp.org <mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org>
Cc: Demarest, David P. <david.demarest at firstdata.com
<mailto:david.demarest at firstdata.com> >
Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] LP Puerto Rico motion
If a request for co sponsors is made, I will co-sponsor the part before the
AND.
On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Patrick McKnight
<patrick.joseph.mcknight at gmail.com
<mailto:patrick.joseph.mcknight at gmail.com> > wrote:
>From Dr Phillies...
"As my name was invoked as the author of the motion:
1) I suggest removing argument via division of the motion between
"Whereas, our Bylaws provide "The National Committee shall charter
state-level affiliate parties from any qualifying organization
requesting such status in each state, territory and the District of
Columbia (hereinafter, state)" and
Whereas no affiliate is currently recognized from any of the
inhabited Territories of the United States,
Therefore, Be It Resolved that the Libertarian National Committee
encourages the Partido Libertario de Puerto Rico (Libertarian Party
of Puerto Rico) to prepare for and apply to become an affiliate of
our Libertarian Party, and
Be It Further Resolved, that the Libertarian National Committee
encourages the Libertarians in America's other Territories to
organize themselves as Libertarian political groups that advance to
apply for affiliate status,
AND
and Be it Further Resolved, that the Libertarian national Committee
directs its appointees to the 2018 National Convention Bylaws
Committee to create and support a Bylaws amendment establishing
delegate representation for all Party Sustaining members who do not
live in a current affiliate."
2) With respect to the Partido Libertario de Puerto Rico, I urge being
pro-active about pursuing them.
3) With respect to the people living abroad, there is this remarkable
invention known as the internet, so it is straightforward for them to
organize especially with a little help.
In two other notes: (1) I have a volunteer who is a native speaker of
Russian and would be available--up to some point--to translate our
literature into Russian.
(2) Please thank the staff for their great dispatch in sending me 2000
bumper stickers, all with the word "Libertarian" front and center."
On Aug 13, 2016 11:15 AM, "David Demarest" <dpdemarest at centurylink.net
<mailto:dpdemarest at centurylink.net> > wrote:
Caryn, Patrick: If needed, I offer to co-sponsor a revised proposal that
addresses any bylaws concerns.
Celebrate Life, Set the Bar High and LIVE FREE!
~David Pratt Demarest
Secretary, Nebraska Libertarian State Central Committee
Region 6 Representative, Libertarian National Committee
Nebraska State Coordinator, LP Radical Caucus
Secretary at LPNE.org <mailto:Secretary at LPNE.org>
David.Demarest at LP.org <mailto:David.Demarest at LP.org>
DPDemarest at centurylink.net <mailto:DPDemarest at centurylink.net>
David.Demarest at firstdata.com <mailto:David.Demarest at firstdata.com>
Cell: 402-981-6469 <tel:402-981-6469>
Home: 402-493-0873 <tel:402-493-0873>
Office: 402-222-7207 <tel:402-222-7207>
From: Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org
<mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org> ] On Behalf Of Caryn Ann Harlos
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2016 9:53 AM
To: lnc-business at hq.lp.org <mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org>
Subject: [Lnc-business] LP Puerto Rico motion
Phillies is not opposed to rewording the bylaws part.
Patrick can you offer a revised proposal? I think you will get sufficient
co-sponsors if you do.
--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <mailto:Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
On Saturday, August 13, 2016, David Demarest <dpdemarest at centurylink.net
<mailto:dpdemarest at centurylink.net> > wrote:
Caryn, based on your input below, it sounds like there is plenty of interest
from Puerto Rico which answers my question.
Let's go for it. Bylaws or no bylaws, I can't fathom a reason for not
wanting an affiliate in a U.S. territory.
Celebrate Life, Set the Bar High and LIVE FREE!
~David Pratt Demarest
Secretary, Nebraska Libertarian State Central Committee
Region 6 Representative, Libertarian National Committee
Nebraska State Coordinator, LP Radical Caucus
Secretary at LPNE.org <mailto:Secretary at LPNE.org>
David.Demarest at LP.org <mailto:David.Demarest at LP.org>
DPDemarest at centurylink.net <mailto:DPDemarest at centurylink.net>
David.Demarest at firstdata.com <mailto:David.Demarest at firstdata.com>
Cell: 402-981-6469 <tel:402-981-6469>
Home: 402-493-0873 <tel:402-493-0873>
Office: 402-222-7207 <tel:402-222-7207>
From: Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] On Behalf Of
Caryn Ann Harlos
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 11:02 PM
To: lnc-business at hq.lp.org <mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org>
Cc: Demarest, David P. <david.demarest at firstdata.com
<mailto:david.demarest at firstdata.com> >
Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] LP Puerto Rico motion
David if the current group does not wish to affiliate that should not stop
us from encouraging a group to affiliate. Why wouldn't we extend the
invitation? The National Facebook Page gets regular inquiries about a
potential affiliate in Puerto Rico.
--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <mailto:Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:59 PM, David Demarest <dpdemarest at centurylink.net
<mailto:dpdemarest at centurylink.net> > wrote:
Ditto Caryn, I support encouraging a Puerto Rico affiliate but agree with
Brett that we should first check with Puerto Rico to see if they want one.
Whether or not that has already done was not clear to me.
Celebrate Life, Set the Bar High and LIVE FREE!
~David Pratt Demarest
Secretary, Nebraska Libertarian State Central Committee
Region 6 Representative, Libertarian National Committee
Nebraska State Coordinator, LP Radical Caucus
Secretary at LPNE.org <mailto:Secretary at LPNE.org>
David.Demarest at LP.org <mailto:David.Demarest at LP.org>
DPDemarest at centurylink.net <mailto:DPDemarest at centurylink.net>
David.Demarest at firstdata.com <mailto:David.Demarest at firstdata.com>
Cell: 402-981-6469 <tel:402-981-6469>
Home: 402-493-0873 <tel:402-493-0873>
Office: 402-222-7207 <tel:402-222-7207>
From: Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] On Behalf Of
Caryn Ann Harlos
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 10:15 PM
To: lnc-business at hq.lp.org <mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org>
Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] LP Puerto Rico motion
I agree with Alicia's concern on the Bylaws request for members outside of
affiliates. That whole bylaws section is problematic and I have an issue
with the LNC directing an independent committee in that manner.
I have no issue with encouraging a Puerto Rico affiliate.
--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <mailto:Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:02 PM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson at gmail.com
<mailto:agmattson at gmail.com> > wrote:
I guess I don't see the point of the portion encouraging a Puerto Rican
affiliate specifically, and I don't agree with the clause which would direct
the Bylaws Committee to create delegate slots for members outside of
affiliates.
Over the past two years, at least two and perhaps three times I was asked
for a copy of the approved form to use for forming a new affiliate and was
told the request was for Puerto Rico. I never communicated with anyone
actually from Puerto Rico, though, as the requests came to me through staff
and a state chair. So I don't know if someone in Puerto Rico actually wants
to do it, or if other people just want someone there to do it. Regardless,
no group has yet submitted an application to become an affiliate, and if
they do so, we'll charter an affiliate.
If there aren't the required handful of interested people there, I don't
want to encourage creation of something that will would promptly atrophy.
Regarding delegate apportionment for members outside of affiliates:
1) As of the official date for calculating delegates for the 2016
convention, there were only 61 sustaining party members outside of
affiliates.
2) Those members are spread all over the world, not grouped in close
proximity in a region which could reasonably form some sort of functional
organization and choose delegates to represent them.
3) There are plenty of affiliates whose rules would permit those 61 members
to be seated as convention delegates already if they are so inclined.
-Alicia
On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 10:49 AM, Patrick McKnight
<patrick.joseph.mcknight at gmail.com
<mailto:patrick.joseph.mcknight at gmail.com> > wrote:
I make the following motion on behalf of Dr. Phillies:
"Whereas, our Bylaws provide "The National Committee shall charter
state-level affiliate parties from any qualifying organization
requesting such status in each state, territory and the District of Columbia
(hereinafter, state)" and
Whereas no affiliate is currently recognized from any of the inhabited
Territories of the United States,
Therefore, Be It Resolved that the Libertarian National Committee encourages
the Partido Libertario de Puerto Rico (Libertarian Party of Puerto Rico) to
prepare for and apply to become an affiliate of our Libertarian Party, and
Be It Further Resolved, that the Libertarian National Committee encourages
the Libertarians in America's other Territories to organize themselves as
Libertarian political groups that advance to apply for affiliate status,
and Be it Further Resolved, that the Libertarian national Committee directs
its appointees to the 2018 National Convention Bylaws Committee to create
and support a Bylaws amendment establishing delegate representation for all
Party Sustaining members who do not live in a current affiliate."
Thanks,
Patrick McKnight
Region 8 Rep
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