[Lnc-business] MOTION Re: National Party Agreement and Joint Fundraising Agreement were signed by me today

Nicholas Sarwark chair at lp.org
Mon Sep 19 21:17:50 EDT 2016 

Not publicly, no.

-Nick

On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 2:00 PM, Sam Goldstein
<goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com> wrote:
> Mr. Sarwark,
>
> If we don't speak in specifics, would it be allowable under that provision
> to speak in general
> terms of what the agreement accomplishes?
>
>
>
> Sam Goldstein
> Libertarian National Committee
> Member at Large
> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
> Indianapolis IN 46260
> 317-850-0726 Phone
> 317-582-1773 Fax
>
> On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Please let us know when you hear.
>>
>> If this is so, I am disappointed we bound ourselves to that.
>>
>> Our members deserve to know.
>>
>> - Caryn Ann
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, September 17, 2016, Nicholas Sarwark <nsarwark at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Mr. Goldstein directed me to a particular provision that I believe
>>> requires the LNC to keep the terms of the contract confidential.
>>>
>>> I don't believe that precludes us from putting the same or similar
>>> provisions in a sample contract for future campaigns, but it may make it so
>>> that we are not able to disclose the exact terms of this contract even after
>>> the election.
>>>
>>> I've asked Mr. Hall to double-check that language.
>>>
>>> -Nick
>>>
>>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 12:39 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> That goes beyond the authority granted in Orlando and should be a
>>> decision of the entire LNC in executive session.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> In Liberty,
>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
>>> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, September 17, 2016, Nicholas J. Sarwark <chair at lp.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The LNC keeping it confidential is not a provision of the contract.  It
>>>> is my choice based on the advice of our attorney.
>>>>
>>>> Please feel free to act accordingly.
>>>>
>>>> -Nick
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 8:40 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Everyone and Mr. Chair:
>>>>
>>>> I think this question needs to be answered before anyone can
>>>> meaningfully sign this NDA.
>>>>
>>>> Was secrecy until Inauguration Day part of the contract?  If so, I will
>>>> sign. We gave the Chair authority to negotiate the contract, and binding the
>>>> LNC to secrecy is arguably something he could do, though I am willing to
>>>> hear arguments to the contrary.
>>>>
>>>> If secrecy was NOT part of this contract, I do not believe there is
>>>> authority for the Chair to, without a vote of the LNC, force us to keep this
>>>> secret.
>>>>
>>>> I need an answer to this question, even if the answer is "I'm not going
>>>> to tell you" before I can make a meaningful decision on this NDA.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> In Liberty,
>>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) -
>>>> Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 7:44 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>> <carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Starchild, I co-sponsor your motion.
>>>>>
>>>>> You articulated well misgivings I have in this whole thing.  I *never*
>>>>> agreed at that Orlando meeting that this contract would be secret after
>>>>> signing.  That was *not* part of the vote.  I feel completely hoodwinked by
>>>>> this and feel it is completely unilateral and improper.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now perhaps this secrecy was part of the contract - *I have to pass it
>>>>> to see what is in it apparently.* Ironic.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am still deciding whether to sign and any modifications I will make
>>>>> to this adhesion contract.  But it is under objection and protest.
>>>>>
>>>>> I had no issue agreeing to keep confidential until signed.  I believe
>>>>> that was part of our Orlando vote.  I do not believe this further condition
>>>>> was part of our vote - and if it was part of the negotiations - well bad on
>>>>> us for ceding that power.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will not make such a mistake again.
>>>>>
>>>>> As is my practice - I will confer with members of my region about this
>>>>> matter and whether I should sign or stick to my guns. I likely will sign
>>>>> because without signing I don't even know what my guns are.  How very old
>>>>> party of us.
>>>>>
>>>>>  --
>>>>> In Liberty,
>>>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) -
>>>>> Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>
>>>>> On Saturday, September 17, 2016, Starchild <sfdreamer at earthlink.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Caryn, I share your concerns, and – Sam is correct – I have refused to
>>>>>> sign any blanket non-disclosure agreement. The Bylaws setting forth our job
>>>>>> descriptions do not contain any such requirement, and that being the case, I
>>>>>> believe information relevant to doing our jobs must be made available to us
>>>>>> without any further conditions except those which the LNC may vote to impose
>>>>>> upon itself in accord with Article 7, Section 1:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "The National Committee shall adopt rules of procedure for the conduct
>>>>>> of its meetings and the carrying out of its duties and responsibilities."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nick wrote,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As members of the LNC, you are entitled to review the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> agreements if
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you will agree to keep them confidential.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That statement doesn't say anything about being required to sign a
>>>>>> blanket NDA covering our entire tenure on the LNC, and I hope Nick meant no
>>>>>> more than what he said. I think we have every right as representatives to
>>>>>> view documents that the LNC has voted to keep secret if we agree to keep
>>>>>> them confidential on a case-by-case basis, rather than put our signatures to
>>>>>> some all-encompassing legal gobbledy-gook that even a paralegal like
>>>>>> yourself can't readily understand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In this case however, the LNC has not yet voted to keep the contract
>>>>>> with the Johnson campaign secret. If it is deemed necessary to keep an
>>>>>> official party document secret, I believe that decision should be made by
>>>>>> the LNC as a whole. I don't think we want documents being essentially marked
>>>>>> as "classified" by any one member of the committee, even the chair, without
>>>>>> the consent of the body.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What it comes down to is this:  Transparency and openness should
>>>>>> always be the default. When secrecy is desired, it should require a vote.
>>>>>> That is our practice when going into a secret meeting, and I believe it
>>>>>> should be our practice in other cases as well. With this principle in mind,
>>>>>> I make the following motion, for which I seek co-sponsors:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Moved, that the National Party Agreement and Joint Fundraising
>>>>>> Agreement documents signed by the LNC chair with the Johnson campaign not be
>>>>>> disclosed beyond members of the LNC and staff who have agreed to this
>>>>>> confidentiality until January 21, 2017, at which time the documents will
>>>>>> become public unless the LNC votes prior to that date to extend the term of
>>>>>> secrecy for some additional period of time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To be clear, I am making this motion only because I believe this
>>>>>> matter requires an LNC vote, not because I want this secrecy. While I am
>>>>>> willing to listen to arguments for why the documents should be kept secret
>>>>>> until after the campaign is over – the day after Inauguration Day is
>>>>>> actually well past when presidential campaigns are generally over, but I
>>>>>> used Nick's referenced date for the language of the motion – my own
>>>>>> inclination is to vote against my motion and allow the information to be
>>>>>> shared immediately.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As with all that we do as a party, we have an opportunity here to
>>>>>> model a better way of doing things and thereby set a positive example. I'd
>>>>>> like to see the contract, assuming one exists, between the Democratic Party
>>>>>> and Hillary Clinton, or the Republican Party and Donald Trump, wouldn't you?
>>>>>> Were such contracts routinely made public, I believe the result would be
>>>>>> politicians and party leaders being held more accountable. Why would we not
>>>>>> want to be part of the solution by making it more routine? Libertarians
>>>>>> seeking to advance freedom have every reason to welcome transparency and
>>>>>> accountability, but the same cannot be said for their corrupt and
>>>>>> power-hungry cartel-party rivals! A culture of transparency isn't just
>>>>>> better in terms of being more compatible with a free society – it gives us
>>>>>> as a party a competitive advantage over the establishment parties and their
>>>>>> back-room deal-making which cannot stand the light of day.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Love & Liberty,
>>>>>>                                    ((( starchild )))
>>>>>> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>>                                 (415) 625-FREE
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sep 16, 2016, at 9:18 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes that one.  It does not say anywhere I could speak with you for
>>>>>> instance... and will there be a record of who signed it?  The levels of
>>>>>> security and destruction of documents are not specficied Can we discuss over
>>>>>> FB messenger?  There is no ending date.  It was sent to me with purpose
>>>>>> blank.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am not going to waste any further time arguing over it.  I will sign
>>>>>> it because I owe it to represent my Region - if it was just me affected I
>>>>>> would refuse.  I am noting my protest to this adhesion contract.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> In Liberty,
>>>>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) -
>>>>>> Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 10:12 PM, Sam Goldstein
>>>>>> <goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This one?  What specifically?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sam Goldstein
>>>>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>>> Member at Large
>>>>>>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>>>>>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>>>>>> 317-850-0726 Phone
>>>>>>> 317-582-1773 Fax
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 12:05 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>>>> <carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sam, I am a paralegal.  I don't take contracts lightly, and I have a
>>>>>>>> huge problem with this NDA.  It is NOT a standard NDA as far as I can see.
>>>>>>>> It doesn't say what you say.  I have signed a pretty basic NDA with LPCO.
>>>>>>>> This goes beyond that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> In Liberty,
>>>>>>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) -
>>>>>>>> Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 10:01 PM, Sam Goldstein
>>>>>>>> <goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Caryn,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm fairly sure all members of the LNC during my terms on the
>>>>>>>>> commitee have signed this agreement, excepting perhaps Starchild, and I
>>>>>>>>> don't think I ever heard of any problems or repercussions.  Pretty much just
>>>>>>>>> don't discuss with anyone who has not signed it or relay any item identified
>>>>>>>>> as Confidential so that a non-signed can access it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From my memory for the past 3 terms, the only items labeled as
>>>>>>>>> Confidential have been legal matters, part of the budget related to employee
>>>>>>>>> contracts, salaries and bonuses and sensitive parts of the annual audit.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Feel free to contact me to discuss in more detail if you like.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Live Free,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sam Goldstein
>>>>>>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>>>>> Member at Large
>>>>>>>>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>>>>>>>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>>>>>>>> 317-850-0726 Phone
>>>>>>>>> 317-582-1773 Fax
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 11:41 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>>>>>> <carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am a paralegal and am having issues understanding the
>>>>>>>>>> obligations of this NDA, it is completely unreasonable.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So can we discuss with other LNC members?  Only ones who have
>>>>>>>>>> signed?  Will those who have signed be public knowledge?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Precisely how secure does my computer need to be?  Do I need to
>>>>>>>>>> put a certain level of passwords?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What level of destruction is required if I print it out and read?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It was sent to me with "stated purpose" blank.  It has no ending
>>>>>>>>>> date.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Seriously?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> In Liberty,
>>>>>>>>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) -
>>>>>>>>>> Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:17 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>>>>>>> <carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Well apparently we have to sign a multi-page NDA to even view it.
>>>>>>>>>>> I have given my word, and I have never broke confidentiality.  I would think
>>>>>>>>>>> we have a right as LNC members to see it without having to consult with an
>>>>>>>>>>> attorney.  Little did I know when I voted in Orlando.  Live and learn.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> In Liberty,
>>>>>>>>>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) -
>>>>>>>>>>> Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 5:25 PM, Joshua Katz
>>>>>>>>>>> <planning4liberty at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mr. Chairman - thank you for your hard work and persistence on
>>>>>>>>>>>> this endeavor.  I am glad it has finally been concluded, and, although I
>>>>>>>>>>>> haven't yet sent my request, I have full confidence that you would not have
>>>>>>>>>>>> executed an agreement that was not in our interests.  Congratulations.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that keeping it confidential until Inauguration Day is,
>>>>>>>>>>>> among other things, a very reasonably optimistic action.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>>>>>>>>>>> Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 6:15 PM, Nicholas Sarwark <chair at lp.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear All,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We have agreed on a contract with the Johnson Campaign and a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> joint
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fundraising agreement.  My copies have been signed and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Governors
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will sign theirs shortly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the advice of counsel, I will be keeping the agreements
>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential until at least after inauguration day.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As members of the LNC, you are entitled to review the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> agreements if
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you will agree to keep them confidential.  If you would like to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> do so,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> please email Robert Kraus with your request and he can send
>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yours in liberty,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nick
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> In Liberty,
>>>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) -
>>>>> Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> In Liberty,
>>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) -
>>>> Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> In Liberty,
>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
>>> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> In Liberty,
>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
>> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>> Harlos at LP.org
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>
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