[Lnc-business] Contract issues

Wed Sep 21 17:08:49 EDT 2016

I will note that this issue of a prenomination contract illustrates
perfectly one way in which we have grossly prejudiced our members.  The
eternal secrecy clause will keep them from evaluating the results of this
contract in considering future terms.

-- 
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>

On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 2:20 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com>
wrote:

> All,
>
> I absolutely believe there is value in the contract.  Value was never my
> dispute.  My dispute is the eternal secrecy clause and the evidence in the
> public emails that it was not properly considered or properly advised by
> our counsel.  No amount of value mitigates that concern and the concern, as
> laid out, that eternal secrecy is invalid and invalidates both member and
> committee rights.  And my belief that if it was fully apprehended in
> negotiations that it would not have been agreed to for precisely these
> reasons.  As wonderful as we all are, we don't get to permanently alienate
> rights.  I made the argument above, and won't waste anyone's time repeating
> it, but I wanted it to be clear that value was never the issue.  But I
> don't get to put a price tag on what is worth such alienation for
> everyone.  Which is in fact what we are doing, and I will continue to
> object as an individual member.
>
> But the value is not in dispute. Whether it could have been of greater
> value is.
>
> As far as pre-nomination contracts, I am sympathetic to Arvin's view.
> Making it a requirement removes rights (yes I will constantly harp on
> rights) from the delegates, and I would consistently oppose that.  And
> Joshua is right that it would be a Bylaws issues, not within our
> authority.  I would oppose, as a member, such a Bylaws amendment as
> potential violative of minority voices.
>
> And in response to some public comments made, this is absolutely not an
> issue with the service of our Chair.  We all make mistakes-- as I allege
> was made here, and I for one, am fully supportive of the service and
> dedication and the way the Chair has represented and led our Party. Good
> leadership does not require perfection. If so, I am immediately
> disqualified since I now regret the authority granted in Orlando and
> believe I made a mistake.
>
> --
> *In Liberty,*
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>
> On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 1:56 PM, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I would favor making it a requirement, at least in ways, but that is not
>> a question for the LNC.
>>
>> Joshua A. Katz
>> Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 2:44 PM, Sean O'Toole <sean at kingfieldcapital.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Arvin,
>>>
>>> I too support contract signing prior to the nomination. I'm curious why
>>> you would not support making the signing of such a contract a requirement
>>> in order to procure our nomination. What incentive would a candidate have
>>> to sign pre-nomination?
>>>
>>> Sean
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Sean O'Toole
>>> sean at kingfieldcapital.com
>>> (816) 739-2737
>>>
>>> On 21 Sep 2016, at 14:32, Arvin Vohra wrote:
>>>
>>> LNC - having heard the feedback from Messrs. Sarwark, Katz, and
>>> Goldstein that the contract provides value to both the campaign and the
>>> Libertarian Party, I am satisfied. There are plenty of things we keep
>>> secret (e.g. donor lists) for strategic reasons, and it seems that we have
>>> a strategic reason to do so here (it gets us a contract). I would obviously
>>> prefer transparency here, but if that is a dealbreaker, then I recommend we
>>> move forward and focus on downsizing government.
>>>
>>> However, I will be either making or cosponsoring a motion to allow
>>> future presidential campaigns to sign preliminary contracts with the LNC
>>> before nomination. I will not support making this a strict requirement, but
>>> I do believe that this process should be make easier in the future if
>>> possible.
>>>
>>> -Arvin
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 2:19 PM, Sam Goldstein <
>>> goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Nope you are just not in on the secret.
>>>>
>>>> Sam
>>>>
>>>> Sam Goldstein
>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>> Member at Large
>>>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>>> 317-850-0726 Phone
>>>> 317-582-1773 Fax
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 1:58 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I am horridly out of touch.  I hear they aren't even using the term
>>>>> "dank" any longer,  I can't keep up.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Nicholas Sarwark <chair at lp.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> FYI: All the cool kids are using poisoned Skittles as the correct
>>>>>> analogy these days.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Nick
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 10:48 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>>> <carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> > And to add saying "withe exception of that one clause" is precisely
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> > issue.  A meal may be delicious with the exception of the few
>>>>>> grains of
>>>>>> > arsenic.  I will not focus on the savour of the steak but rather
>>>>>> the sting
>>>>>> > of the poison.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > --
>>>>>> > In Liberty,
>>>>>> > Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>>> > Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>> Arizona,
>>>>>> > Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) -
>>>>>> Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>> > Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>> > Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>> > Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 11:46 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>>> > <carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Protecting the interests of the party and its members and us do not
>>>>>> >> include eternal secrecy.  While some might have trouble seeing it,
>>>>>> no, in a
>>>>>> >> contract negotiation, something as huge as that, should not be
>>>>>> missed.
>>>>>> >> Whether or not it is "understandable" is not the question.  It is
>>>>>> >> extraordinarily prejudical and and negligent.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Joshua Katz <
>>>>>> planning4liberty at gmail.com>
>>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> In response to the implied question:  Having read the contract, I
>>>>>> find it
>>>>>> >>> to be a good agreement, and one that delivers excellent value to
>>>>>> the Party,
>>>>>> >>> with the exception of the clause under discussion.  I personally
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> >>> trouble seeing the implications of that clause, even after having
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> >>> explained to me, and so it makes perfect sense to me that those
>>>>>> implications
>>>>>> >>> can be missed during an extended negotiation where the primary
>>>>>> focus was on
>>>>>> >>> protecting the interests of the party and obtaining value for the
>>>>>> party.
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> Joshua A. Katz
>>>>>> >>> Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 9:37 AM, Nicholas Sarwark <chair at lp.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Dear All,
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> I want to clear something up.
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> The LNC authorized me to negotiate a contract and joint
>>>>>> fundraising
>>>>>> >>>> agreement between the party and the Gary Johnson campaign.  I
>>>>>> have,
>>>>>> >>>> for the past three and a half months, been working with our
>>>>>> counsel,
>>>>>> >>>> Oliver Hall, to negotiate a contract that would be in the best
>>>>>> >>>> interest of the Libertarian Party.
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> During those months, terms have changed during the course of the
>>>>>> >>>> negotiations in both agreements.  At some point I asked Mr. Hall
>>>>>> about
>>>>>> >>>> the advisability of making the provisions of the contract public
>>>>>> both
>>>>>> >>>> before and after the election.  His advice was that it would not
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> >>>> advisable at any point, but definitely would not be prior to the
>>>>>> >>>> election.  Based on that discussion, my preference would be to
>>>>>> keep it
>>>>>> >>>> confidential until inauguration day.  That was what I
>>>>>> communicated to
>>>>>> >>>> the list, but that communication was in error.
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> The actual contract requires confidentiality of the terms.  Mr.
>>>>>> >>>> Goldstein pointed out that phrase to me and I sent a correction
>>>>>> to the
>>>>>> >>>> email list as soon as I realized that I had misspoke. I
>>>>>> understand
>>>>>> >>>> that this misspeaking has created a lack of confidence and a
>>>>>> motion to
>>>>>> >>>> rescind the entire authority to execute the contract.
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> I would like it to be clear that making the contract public was
>>>>>> not,
>>>>>> >>>> to my knowledge, one of the stated objectives at the LNC meeting
>>>>>> >>>> following the convention for our contract with the campaign.  A
>>>>>> very
>>>>>> >>>> small and vocal minority making it into an absolute requirement
>>>>>> at
>>>>>> >>>> this late stage of the negotiations is shifting the goalposts in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> >>>> final seconds of the game (after, I'm not sure if signatures are
>>>>>> >>>> already on the campaign's copies).
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> I think the contract negotiated is a good one.  Others who have
>>>>>> seen
>>>>>> >>>> it are probably within their bounds to say whether they consider
>>>>>> it a
>>>>>> >>>> good or bad agreement, without discussing specific terms with LNC
>>>>>> >>>> members who will not agree to keep it confidential.
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> The effect of this motion would be to cancel everything
>>>>>> negotiated
>>>>>> >>>> because I misspoke and/or people value transparency over any
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> >>>> goal.  If that's what you want to do, you should co-sponsor it
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> >>>> vote for it.
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Yours in liberty,
>>>>>> >>>> Nick
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> P.S. Recognizing that eventual transparency is important to the
>>>>>> >>>> aforementioned small and vocal minority, Oliver and I are
>>>>>> actually in
>>>>>> >>>> negotiations with the campaign for some kind of addendum that
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> >>>> modify the confidentiality terms to address those concerns.
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> >>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> >>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> >>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> >>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> --
>>>>>> >> In Liberty,
>>>>>> >> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>>> >> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>> Arizona,
>>>>>> >> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) -
>>>>>> Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>> >> Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>> >> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>> >> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > --
>>>>>> > In Liberty,
>>>>>> > Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>>> > Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>> Arizona,
>>>>>> > Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) -
>>>>>> Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>> > Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>> > Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>> > Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>> > Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> > Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> > http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Arvin Vohra
>>>
>>> www.VoteVohra.com
>>> VoteVohra at gmail.com
>>> (301) 320-3634
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *In Liberty,*
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>
>
>
>
>

-- 
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
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