[Lnc-business] Motion: Assemblyman Moore - request for co-sponsors

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

The goal is for Libertarian candidates to not completely fundamentally
betray basic principles in such a flagrant manner and sabotaging the
efforts in a specific issue of the Party (the affiliate in this case).  The
Motion itself says what we hope - for the candidate to take Libertarian
stances in the future.  If he cannot, then switching to an affiliation that
accurately reflects his principles is a choice he would have to make. That
isn't our goal.  But it certainly isn't our goal to assist a betrayal of
the affiliate and principles.

I do not know if we have before.  And if there is censurable behaviour to a
candidate that we have spent members' funds supporting, then yes. That is
something we should consider doing.  Once again, we are the "party of
principle" and if voting for a 750 million dollar crony capitalist subsidy
isn't a censurable violation then we have truly lost our way.  Asking for a
bright line rule is once again appropos to my pornography analogy.  There
are a host of factors, and we know it when we see it.

The LPNV has spoken to the candidate.  He has given a public explanation.
This is public accountability.

The affiliate has not officially asked National to censure.  Some LPNV
members have.  As have members elsewhere.

On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 9:48 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org> wrote:

>
>
> I would submit that prior to censure, a conversation might be in order to
> get more information.  We don't even have all of the facts.  Here's what we
> know:
>
> 1. We have a candidate who is an elected official, was approved by an
> affiliate to run as an L, and to which the LNC gave money.
> 2. The candidate voted for 2 tax increases, the latter of which is to
> entice a franchise in a monopoly to come to his district.
> 3. The candidate claims 60% of his constituents supported the latter one.
> 4. The affiliate that nominated him is angry, has censured the candidate,
> and has asked National to censure as well.
>
>
>
> Now, if the goal is to get Moore to switch to some other affiliation or to
> Independent, then certainly censure would be a good start. But I think it
> might be good to speak to the elected official first.
>
> And the question about "what's the line for this body?" is extremely
> relevant. Has this body ever censured a candidate or elected
> Libertarian before? Is this a practice we want this body to make more
> regular?
>
> Again, I'm not in favor of this cronyist garbage, and after Cincinnati
> signed a similarly-stupid deal with the Bengals, and tied revenue to an
> increased local sales tax, I just avoid buying things in Cincinnati when
> possible.
>
> ---
>
> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
> LPKY Judicial Committee
>
>
>
> On 2016-10-21 23:22, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>
> And I would distinguish greatly a state candidate from our national
> candidate which was ratified and consented to by delegates at a national
> convention.  A state candidate is ratified by those delegates (in most
> states and in normal circumstances which do not involve a mid-term Party
> affiliation switch).  In such a case I give great deference to the
> affiliate that welcomed and championed. And once again, Nevada has made
> their absolute displeasure and sense of betrayal clear.
>
> On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 9:19 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I find what if's and mining the subjunctives to be unhelpful personally.
>> I do not know what kind of transgression would warrant in a "what if"
>> situation.  I would say yes, we should always be willing.  Our duty is not
>> to any elected person but to the Party itself and the principles for which
>> we stand.  This is a clear egregious violation which is somewhat like what
>> some say about "pornography" - I know it when I see it.  I would ask if
>> someone commits to be a Libertarian and acts completely against Libertarian
>> principles and received money from the National Committee of said Party is
>> that committing fraud against the body?   If the constituents feel
>> defrauded (particularly since they elected a Republican, not a Libertarian)
>> then it is up to them to deal with, not us.  Our standing and duty is to
>> the LP and the members.
>>
>> This isn't a minor issue.  This was major with a capital M.  And Nevada
>> has made clear how they feel about it.
>>
>> The minute was have the "uncensurable" we are doomed.  We are the "Party
>> of Principle" and we need to have the backbone to at some point say enough
>> is enough, particularly when we spent $10K of our members' money.
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 9:12 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I'm glad that the dilemma is understood. And you did bring up the other
>>> question I had, after further consideration; would we, as a body, be
>>> willing to censure an elected Libertarian President Johnson?  If this is
>>> the case, how bad would the transgression need to be before this body
>>> rebukes its own first elected President?
>>>
>>> We really need to help give our candidates and elected officials, to the
>>> limited extent that they exist, be successful champions for liberty. And by
>>> "we", I mean every person who says they're a libertarian.  If we can't go
>>> out and help convince other people's minds, then we're failing as activists
>>> and supporters.  IMO, the root problem here is that 60% number.  Why do 60%
>>> of the people in Moore's district support this?
>>>
>>> As I further discussed this with a few others this afternoon and
>>> evening, I had another thought.  If someone is elected to represent the
>>> people of his district and fails to do so, would that person be engaging in
>>> fraud against the constituents?
>>>
>>> Every candidate and elected official has negatives. I personally prefer
>>> to focus on a candidate's positives, rather than dwelling on their
>>> negatives. If the negatives exceed the positives, then I start looking for
>>> an alternate course of action.
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2016-10-21 16:05, Demarest, David P. wrote:
>>>
>>> Ken,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you for your honest and thoughtful devil's advocate response
>>> regarding the proposed censure of John Moore. We can, however, view
>>> Assemblyman Moore's two egregious votes as an golden opportunity for LNC
>>> members to think outside the box to examine root causes and design short
>>> and long term solutions to the difficult dilemma faced by all Libertarian
>>> politicians. The dilemma is how to reconcile the dictates of one's
>>> Libertarian conscience with the realities of our current political
>>> environment that is rife with the cronyism necessary to get elected or
>>> reelected. The choice is between voting your conscience at the risk of not
>>> being reelected or violating your conscience to get reelected and live to
>>> fight another day in office.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I would submit that Moore's violation of his conscience to get reelected
>>> makes him part of the problem of spiraling cronyism that is inexorably
>>> destroying our way of life and accelerating our economy and society down
>>> the path of destruction that history demonstrates is the inevitable fate of
>>> all compulsory territorial governments. Most of us support Gary Johnson in
>>> spite of specific misgivings because it is obvious that Gary is so much
>>> better than the other choices and would undoubtedly make things far better
>>> than the other candidates. If Johnson is elected, however, we know that
>>> despite his honestly about his platform, many of his decisions will give us
>>> heartburn. Our short-term act of censuring Moore will send a clear and
>>> unambiguous message that statist actions by Libertarian officials to save
>>> political seats are unacceptable violations of conscience that will not be
>>> tolerated. The proposed censure of Moore will serve as an educational
>>> message for all present and future Libertarian officials including those
>>> who switch from other parties.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Long-term solutions require that we understand that cronyism does not
>>> fare well in the competitive context of the free-market. By contrast,
>>> cronyism is aggressively fostered in our current compulsory authoritarian
>>> majority rule system. We as Libertarians face an uphill battle if we choose
>>> to rely solely on a top-down legislative authoritarian approach to rescue
>>> us from the tsunami of cronyism that will swamp our ship of state if we do
>>> not reverse course promptly and with a sense of urgency.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The crushing curse of cronyism will not be reversed until we change the
>>> context of government to minimize instead of fostering cronyism. To get
>>> straight to the point, that change in context to discourage cronyism will
>>> not occur until we achieve competitive governance and competitive social
>>> services. I would further submit that we must supplement our top-down
>>> legislative strategy with a robust, bottom-up entrepreneurial peaceful
>>> freedom revolution fueled by peer-to-peer technology. Then and only then
>>> will we create the political climate necessary to elect Libertarian
>>> officials to all levels of government and establish the environment of
>>> competitive governance and social services that is an absolute prerequisite
>>> if we seriously intend to minimize cronyism and save our way of life for
>>> future generations.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *The War on Majority Rule Authoritarian Cronyism Begins Now*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>>>
>>> Region 6 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (IA, IL, MN, MO,
>>> ND, NE, WI)
>>>
>>> Secretary Pro Tem, LNC Affiliate Support Committee
>>>
>>> Secretary, Nebraska Libertarian State Central Committee
>>>
>>> Nebraska State Coordinator, LP Radical Caucus
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Caryn Ann Harlos [mailto:carynannharlos at gmail.com]
>>> *Sent:* Friday, October 21, 2016 12:50 PM
>>> *To:* ken.moellman at lpky.org; lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> *Cc:* William Redpath; Demarest, David P.
>>> *Subject:* Re: Motion: Assemblyman Moore - request for co-sponsors
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We have enough cosponsors for a ballot.  I will argue for it in the
>>> ballot.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It was an LPNV who last broached this action
>>>
>>> with me - I believe it has the support of the aggrieved affiliate - and
>>> members- who's money we spent.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The second vote was expressly against something the LPNV was opposed to
>>> actively for years.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is a betrayal of the LPNV.  And I certainly did not vote (and I
>>> argued zealously) to support a candidate - out of many worthy candidates -
>>> who would take such crony capitalist anti/libertarian power.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 21, 2016, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please allow me to take the Devil's Advocate position, since I probably
>>> won't have a vote that counts anyway.  I realize that this position is
>>> unlikely to be popular.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Politics and philosophy can be a tough balancing act.  Certainly, there
>>> are instances of this problem with our presidential ticket (bake the cake,
>>> for example) and probably every other campaign out there (vaccination
>>> debate, etc.).  Elected officials, and indeed individuals, are faced with
>>> tough decisions between philosophy and reality all the time.  Perhaps the
>>> most famous was Jefferson's opposition to slavery while also owning slaves.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Assemblyman Moore reported that a poll of the constituents of his
>>> district showed that about 60% of the constituents supported the deal,
>>> including the associated taxes. Certainly, there could and should have been
>>> a coordinated effort by the opposition to stop this deal by educating the
>>> public. Based on the level of support reported within Assemblyman Moore's
>>> district, those efforts were obviously unsuccessful.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Even taking what was said above into account, I personally
>>> think Assemblyman Moore's greatest failing in this situation came was in
>>> how he supported the deal.  A statement about "While I personally do not
>>> support this deal, I voted in favor because my constituents wanted me to do
>>> so" could have been a very good moment.  It would have provided an
>>> opportunity to educate the public about the negatives of the deal and
>>> hopefully prevent this type of situation from happening the next time.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So I ask these questions:  Do you think that what John Moore did was
>>> driven by philosophy, or by politics?  Do you believe that John Moore
>>> wanted higher taxes?  As an elected representative, should he represent the
>>> people of his district, or ignore those people in favor of his own
>>> philosophy?  Is it more wise to go against the constituency, especially
>>> this close to election day, or is it more wise to fight another day when
>>> your "army" is more organized and can help you win the day?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Just something to think about.  I'm not pleased at the idea of yet
>>> another billionaire getting a taxpayer-funded stadium and I don't believe
>>> they create enough economic activity to offset the costs.  At least the
>>> team name is appropriate.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2016-10-21 09:27, William Redpath wrote:
>>>
>>> I will also co-sponsor, as I was opposed to the $10,000 motion at the
>>> LNC meeting in July 2016.  Bill Redpath
>>> --------------------------------------------
>>> On Thu, 10/20/16, David Demarest <dpdemarest at centurylink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] Motion: Assemblyman Moore - request for
>>>    co-sponsors
>>>  To: lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>  Cc: david.demarest at firstdata.com
>>>  Date: Thursday, October 20, 2016, 9:20 PM
>>>
>>>  #yiv9175739729
>>>  #yiv9175739729 --
>>>
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>>>  #yiv9175739729 Caryn, I will co-sponsor your
>>>  motion to censure John Moore and request that he return the
>>>  $10,000 campaign contribution from the LNC. Mr. Moore's
>>>  two votes were egregious.   Thoughts?  Celebrate Life, Set the Bar High
>>>  and LIVE FREE!  The Invisible Hand of
>>>  Self-Interest is Mightier Than the Sword of
>>>  Government! ~David Pratt Demaresthttp://www.lpne.org
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.lpne.org&d=CwMFaQ&c=ewHkv9vLloTwhsKn5d4bTdoqsmBfyfooQX5O7EQLv5TtBZ1CwcvjU063xndfqI8U&r=POfq57_C0OM3236VPm9_N_9MhP1EEP_0raNPnh6qDnw&m=IV7aAHavSnzME6gqttSJKf9UdcwCKTeGCnzR9X5ehTM&s=ZPO-4J67vwV6ByD7vb8knOZpRMrndul0DsYJwqVwT_0&e=>
>>>  secretary at lpne.orgdpdemarest@centurylink.net
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__centurylink.net&d=CwMFaQ&c=ewHkv9vLloTwhsKn5d4bTdoqsmBfyfooQX5O7EQLv5TtBZ1CwcvjU063xndfqI8U&r=POfq57_C0OM3236VPm9_N_9MhP1EEP_0raNPnh6qDnw&m=IV7aAHavSnzME6gqttSJKf9UdcwCKTeGCnzR9X5ehTM&s=37Lwyhxfp0qUBXRvtP01RB9aT0NWx-ASCm0rjSNqLTk&e=>
>>>  david.demarest at firstdata.com
>>>  Cell: 402-981-6469Home: 402-493-0873Office: 402-222-7207  From:
>>> Lnc-business
>>>  [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] On Behalf Of
>>>  Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>  Sent: Thursday,
>>>  October 20, 2016 7:45 PM
>>>  To:
>>>  lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>  Subject:
>>>  [Lnc-business] Motion: Assemblyman Moore - request for
>>>  co-sponsors
>>>   Multiple
>>>  party members including region 1 members have acted that the
>>>  LNC take action regarding Assemblyman Moore. While normally,
>>>  I would say that is solely an issue for the state party to
>>>  handle, unless possibly, a Federal candidate, but in this
>>>  case, we spent National Party member's direct monies,
>>>  and thus I do agree this is our responsibility.  As someone
>>>  who advocated for the funds allocation, I believe it is my
>>>  responsibility to address this once members raised a
>>>  concern:
>>>   Whereas Nevada Assemblyman John
>>>  Moore, a former Republican who in January 2016 switched to
>>>  the Libertarian Party while in office, has during the past
>>>  month voted not once but twice in the span of as many days
>>>  to raise taxes on his constituents, including a vote to
>>>  support a "More Cops" tax which the Libertarian
>>>  Party of Nevada has tirelessly and thus far successfully
>>>  opposed, and a vote to provide a $750 million subsidy to
>>>  finance a billionaire-owned sports stadium at the expense
>>>  of, among others, indigent persons renting weekly rooms in
>>>  motels; and  Whereas the elected leaders of our
>>>  state affiliate party in Nevada have rightfully voted to
>>>  censure Assemblyman Moore for these egregious votes;
>>>  and  Whereas we wish to convey a strong
>>>  message to all and sundry that while we welcome sitting
>>>  legislators in the Republican or Democrat parties who
>>>  decide to switch to the Libertarian Party as an act of
>>>  conscience, we do not welcome them if they
>>>  intend, as members of our party, to continue voting and
>>>  acting like Republicans or Democrats;  Therefore be it resolved that the
>>>  Libertarian National Committee hereby censures Assemblyman
>>>  Moore for his recent votes in support of tax increases,
>>>  requests that he return the $10,000 campaign contribution
>>>  which the LNC this season voted to send him, and admonishes
>>>  him to henceforward be a better champion of the values held
>>>  by members of the political party with which he has chosen
>>>  to affiliate if he intends to remain a
>>>  Libertarian.
>>>    --
>>>  In
>>>  Liberty,Caryn Ann
>>>  HarlosRegion 1 Representative,
>>>  Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado,
>>>  Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>  Harlos at LP.orgCommunications Director, Libertarian Party of
>>>  ColoradoColorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party
>>>  Radical Caucus
>>>
>>>  -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  Lnc-business mailing list
>>>  Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>  http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__hq.lp.org_mailman_listinfo_lnc-2Dbusiness-5Fhq.lp.org&d=CwMFaQ&c=ewHkv9vLloTwhsKn5d4bTdoqsmBfyfooQX5O7EQLv5TtBZ1CwcvjU063xndfqI8U&r=POfq57_C0OM3236VPm9_N_9MhP1EEP_0raNPnh6qDnw&m=IV7aAHavSnzME6gqttSJKf9UdcwCKTeGCnzR9X5ehTM&s=wWePA5Va1fCm0ttiTeJdIi3OtI4h0gCUBlEZrJ7f0XI&e=>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__hq.lp.org_mailman_listinfo_lnc-2Dbusiness-5Fhq.lp.org&d=CwMFaQ&c=ewHkv9vLloTwhsKn5d4bTdoqsmBfyfooQX5O7EQLv5TtBZ1CwcvjU063xndfqI8U&r=POfq57_C0OM3236VPm9_N_9MhP1EEP_0raNPnh6qDnw&m=IV7aAHavSnzME6gqttSJKf9UdcwCKTeGCnzR9X5ehTM&s=wWePA5Va1fCm0ttiTeJdIi3OtI4h0gCUBlEZrJ7f0XI&e=>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>
>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>
>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>
>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.lpcolorado.org&d=CwMFaQ&c=ewHkv9vLloTwhsKn5d4bTdoqsmBfyfooQX5O7EQLv5TtBZ1CwcvjU063xndfqI8U&r=POfq57_C0OM3236VPm9_N_9MhP1EEP_0raNPnh6qDnw&m=IV7aAHavSnzME6gqttSJKf9UdcwCKTeGCnzR9X5ehTM&s=3CyYsd35iffGrxsilfZ1czCR0oVMAVvw5l_WxZNzv_Y&e=>
>>>
>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.lpradicalcaucus.org&d=CwMFaQ&c=ewHkv9vLloTwhsKn5d4bTdoqsmBfyfooQX5O7EQLv5TtBZ1CwcvjU063xndfqI8U&r=POfq57_C0OM3236VPm9_N_9MhP1EEP_0raNPnh6qDnw&m=IV7aAHavSnzME6gqttSJKf9UdcwCKTeGCnzR9X5ehTM&s=kihfP26osC5fZJDyE0H_cy-uN_zGxmLOgr0D6_xQQg0&e=>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *In Liberty,*
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> *In Liberty,*
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
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