[Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2016-15: Censure John Moore

Whitney Bilyeu whitneycb76 at gmail.com
Sat Oct 22 15:29:07 EDT 2016 

Alicia,

Is it appropriate/allowable to move to divide this motion?
1) Censure
2) Call for refund/reimbursement/restitution

As for the rest of the language in the last two paragraphs, I could do
without it.

Whitney Bilyeu

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 1:13 PM, Arvin Vohra <votevohra at gmail.com> wrote:

> I vote yes.
>
> A libertarian elected official's duty is to cut government. That's it. Not
> to support the tyranny of a misled majority.
>
> -Arvin
>
> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 1:16 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Sean - hats off to you. <slow clap>
>>
>> I agree completely.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, October 22, 2016, Brett Bittner <brett.bittner at lp.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I intend to vote on this matter, however I do not intend to do so until
>>> we've heard from Assemblyman Moore.
>>>
>>> Brett C. Bittner
>>>
>>> Region 3 Representative
>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>
>>> brett.bittner at lp.org
>>> 317.643.2566
>>>
>>> **This message sent from my phone. Please excuse any typos.
>>>
>>> On Oct 22, 2016 08:44, "Sam Goldstein" <goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I vote Yes.
>>>>
>>>> This would have been one of the best opportunities to vote on principle
>>>> and to make
>>>> a major impact on big government that the LP has had in our history and
>>>> Mr. Moore
>>>> failed miserably.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sam Goldstein
>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>> Member at Large
>>>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>>> 317-850-0726 Phone
>>>> 317-582-1773 Fax
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 8:58 AM, Patrick McKnight <
>>>> patrick.joseph.mcknight at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I vote yes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Patrick McKnight
>>>>> Region 8 Rep
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 22, 2016 8:14 AM, "David Demarest" <dpdemarest at centurylink.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you Alicia. I agree that the death penalty deserves a separate
>>>>>> email thread of its own. I also was not aware of the numbers on the death
>>>>>> penalty plank vote. Nevertheless, I would consider 364 to 105 overwhelming
>>>>>> but disappointingly not high enough considering the moral implications as
>>>>>> spelled in the full text of my testimony as follows, which, by the way,
>>>>>> turned out to be an extraordinary opportunity to publicize the LP in
>>>>>> Nebraska:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “Mr. Secretary,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David Pratt Demarest, 10812 Park Meadow Plaza #133, Omaha, NE 68142
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am Secretary of the Libertarian Party of Nebraska and Regional
>>>>>> Representative on the Libertarian National Committee.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am here today as a private Nebraska citizen to support the
>>>>>> retention of LB268 that repealed the Nebraska death penalty as confirmed by
>>>>>> the override of the Governor’s veto. However, I can tell you that Libertarians
>>>>>> overwhelmingly support the repeal of the death penalty not only for
>>>>>> practical reasons but more importantly for moral reasons. I am personally
>>>>>> aware of *NO* Libertarians in Nebraska or across the nation that
>>>>>> support the death penalty.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Much evidence has been presented today demonstrates the indisputable
>>>>>> failure of the death penalty as a deterrent compounded by the financial
>>>>>> burden it imposes on taxpayers and the extended pain and suffering it
>>>>>> visits on victims. To add insult to injury, victims lose twice and end up
>>>>>> revisiting the pain, anguish and suffering with no closure because of the
>>>>>> undue focus on deterrence, punishment and vengeance on the perpetrators
>>>>>> instead of seeking restitution for the victims. The immoral use of the
>>>>>> death penalty to obtain false confessions was dramatically illustrated by
>>>>>> the infamous Nebraska Beatrice 6 case.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am here, however, to speak to the overriding moral issue. In
>>>>>> addition to the barbaric nature of state-sponsored killing, the risk of
>>>>>> predictable executions of some innocents is beyond morally unacceptable, it
>>>>>> is unconscionable! Further, the possibility of the death penalty being used
>>>>>> as a *political football* to obtain reelection votes raises a host
>>>>>> of ethical questions. To those who might be tempted to advocate the
>>>>>> death penalty for political purposes, you need to reexamine your
>>>>>> conscience and your political, personal and moral priorities.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To voters in the audience, I urge you vote your conscience, vote to
>>>>>> “Retain” LB268 and vote to uphold the death penalty ban in Nebraska. It is
>>>>>> not just practical. It is the only moral choice!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have been selected for poll worker duty. I have to vote early and
>>>>>> have already voted. I am proud to tell you that I voted to retain LB268 to
>>>>>> ban the death penalty from Nebraska. I hope you will too!”
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] *On
>>>>>> Behalf Of *Alicia Mattson
>>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 22, 2016 3:15 AM
>>>>>> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2016-15: Censure John
>>>>>> Moore
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DD>> In the introduction to my testimony, I mentioned my positions
>>>>>> with the LNC and the LPNE and I said that while I was there to testify as a
>>>>>> private citizen, Libertarians are overwhelmingly against the death penalty
>>>>>> and that I was personally aware of no Libertarians in Nebraska or across
>>>>>> the nation that support the death penalty. <<DD
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not to change the subject or start a debate on the death
>>>>>> penalty...just addressing a factual detail that came up in the example
>>>>>> situation.  At the national convention there was a counted vote on the
>>>>>> adoption of our death penalty plank, and there were 364 in favor and 105
>>>>>> opposed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Alicia
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 12:44 AM, David Demarest <
>>>>>> dpdemarest at centurylink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will delay my vote until we hear from John Moore. It may be that
>>>>>> merely offering the motion to censure will achieve our intended purpose to
>>>>>> express our outrage. In the meantime, however, we need to consider Ken’s
>>>>>> salient point about taking into account an elected official’s duty to
>>>>>> represent the views of his constituents and the articulate responses by
>>>>>> Caryn and Alicia.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I must say I am bothered by the reference to the 60% of constituents
>>>>>> favoring the position that Assemblyman Moore voted for as justification for
>>>>>> his misguided votes. As Caryn has correctly pointed out, we have a duty to
>>>>>> reflect the principles of our party. More importantly, we have a duty to
>>>>>> reflect our personal principles of conscience that hopefully are reasonably
>>>>>> consistent with our party’s principles. Even allowing for the fact that no
>>>>>> two Libertarians are going to agree on all details of all principles,
>>>>>> Assemblyman Moore’s votes go beyond the pale. Here is a recent example from
>>>>>> my personal experience on the cronyism evils of basing political positions
>>>>>> and votes on the consensus of constituents regardless of any considerations
>>>>>> of principles and morals.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Last week I testified against the Nebraska referendum to reinstate
>>>>>> the death penalty at a legally mandated District 2 hearing. The Unicameral,
>>>>>> with the support of Libertarian Senator Laura Ebke, narrowly overrode
>>>>>> Governor Ricketts’ veto of the bill that repealed the death penalty.
>>>>>> Governor Ricketts then used a “substantial” contribution from his personal
>>>>>> fortune to sponsor the ballot referendum to reinstate the death penalty
>>>>>> that was the subject of the hearing. In the introduction to my testimony, I
>>>>>> mentioned my positions with the LNC and the LPNE and I said that while I
>>>>>> was there to testify as a private citizen, Libertarians are overwhelmingly
>>>>>> against the death penalty and that I was personally aware of no
>>>>>> Libertarians in Nebraska or across the nation that support the death
>>>>>> penalty.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Republican State Senator Merv Riepe, a Ralston High School classmate
>>>>>> of mine, testified that his opinion poll showed that his constituents
>>>>>> favored the reinstatement of the death penalty *three to one* with
>>>>>> the clear inference that he intended to reflect his constituents’ views
>>>>>> [regardless of any moral considerations]. I looked Senator Riepe squarely
>>>>>> in the eye and responded with the following passionate testimony:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “… the possibility of the death penalty being used as a *political
>>>>>> football* to obtain reelection votes raises a host of ethical
>>>>>> questions. To those who might be tempted to advocate the death
>>>>>> penalty for political purposes, you need to reexamine your
>>>>>> conscience and your political, personal and moral priorities.”
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The point is that reflecting the “consensus of the constituents” for
>>>>>> obvious reelection purposes is not an acceptable or moral justification for
>>>>>> Assemblyman Moore’s two egregious votes. Let’s see what Moore has to say
>>>>>> but keep in mind that our duty is not only to our party’s principles but
>>>>>> also to our personal principles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] *On
>>>>>> Behalf Of *Alicia Mattson
>>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 22, 2016 1:19 AM
>>>>>> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2016-15: Censure John
>>>>>> Moore
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am as upset as the rest of you about the two votes in question, but
>>>>>> that doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to vote yes on this motion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Particularly on the stadium vote, Assemblyman Moore held the power of
>>>>>> the deciding vote.  Had he voted no, it would have failed instead of
>>>>>> passing.  We had a Libertarian in a position to make a big real-world
>>>>>> difference, and it didn't happen.  Facepalm.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IF it's true that his motivation was to play to his constituency in
>>>>>> hopes of getting re-elected, I wonder how he will feel about the votes in
>>>>>> hindsight in the event that he is not re-elected.  What's the point of
>>>>>> being there if you can't vote your conscience?  That's why on the LNC I
>>>>>> also vote the way I think I ought to vote even if other LNC members stage
>>>>>> organized email campaigns from their friends.  Should we be offended at a
>>>>>> public official playing to his constituents if we do the same thing as
>>>>>> party officials?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have several issues with this motion.  I particularly appreciate
>>>>>> Mr. Moellman's questions, and I think we probably should have had a
>>>>>> conversation with Mr. Moore before we flung a motion into the wind.  I
>>>>>> don't think it's sufficient to just hear how other people represent his
>>>>>> position to us.  We should get it straight from him.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am not thrilled about the wording in this resolution.  "...convey a
>>>>>> strong message to all and sundry..." ?  Who talks like that?  We're
>>>>>> discouraging others from switching to the LP until they completely agree
>>>>>> with us?  With which of us?  Because we don't all agree, either.  I
>>>>>> probably would have added that his vote was effectively the deciding vote.
>>>>>> Etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Censure is an action taken by a group against a member of that same
>>>>>> group.  Mr. Moore is not a member of the LNC.  Have we even confirmed that
>>>>>> he's a member of the national party?  As of the national convention in May,
>>>>>> our records did not yet indicate he had signed our membership
>>>>>> certification.  We know he switched his party registration in NV, but that
>>>>>> doesn't make him a member of the national party.  We wouldn't censure
>>>>>> Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton because they're not members of the LNC or
>>>>>> even the LP.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The state affiliate that nominated him has already censured him, so
>>>>>> what does this accomplish for the LNC to pile on?  We can't make him return
>>>>>> the money.  Is it just to make ourselves feel better?  Is the LNC going to
>>>>>> become the purity police that monitors every local/state/federal elected
>>>>>> official and passes resolutions about them?  I am concerned about starting
>>>>>> such a trend.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If we hadn't already donated the funds, I'd vote to rescind that
>>>>>> decision.  That ship has sailed.  I wouldn't vote to donate to him again.
>>>>>> I'm not certain that this motion accomplishes anything productive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Alicia
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 10:20 PM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We have an electronic mail ballot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by October 31, 2016 at
>>>>>> 11:59:59pm Pacific time.*
>>>>>> *Co-Sponsors:*  Harlos, Demarest, Hayes, Vohra, Starchild,
>>>>>> Goldstein, Redpath
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Motion:*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Whereas Nevada Assemblyman John Moore, a former Republican who in
>>>>>> January 2016 switched to the Libertarian Party while in office, has during
>>>>>> the past month voted not once but twice in the span of as many days to
>>>>>> raise taxes on his constituents, including a vote to support a "More Cops"
>>>>>> tax which the Libertarian Party of Nevada has tirelessly and thus far
>>>>>> successfully opposed, and a vote to provide a $750 million subsidy to
>>>>>> finance a billionaire-owned sports stadium at the expense of, among others,
>>>>>> indigent persons renting weekly rooms in motels; and
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Whereas the elected leaders of our state affiliate party in Nevada
>>>>>> have rightfully voted to censure Assemblyman Moore for these egregious
>>>>>> votes; and
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Whereas we wish to convey a strong message to all and sundry that
>>>>>> while we welcome sitting legislators in the Republican or Democrat parties
>>>>>> who decide to switch to the Libertarian Party as an act of conscience, we
>>>>>> do not welcome them if they intend, as members of our party, to continue
>>>>>> voting and acting like Republicans or Democrats;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Therefore be it resolved that the Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>> hereby censures Assemblyman Moore for his recent votes in support of tax
>>>>>> increases, requests that he return the $10,000 campaign contribution which
>>>>>> the LNC this season voted to send him, and admonishes him to henceforward
>>>>>> be a better champion of the values held by members of the political party
>>>>>> with which he has chosen to affiliate if he intends to remain a Libertarian.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Alicia
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> --
>> *In Liberty,*
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Arvin Vohra
>
> www.VoteVohra.com
> VoteVohra at gmail.com
> (301) 320-3634
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
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> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>
>
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