[Lnc-business] Motion: Assemblyman Moore - request for co-sponsors
Caryn Ann Harlos
carynannharlos at gmail.com
Mon Oct 24 14:08:39 EDT 2016
No problem Joshua - you know I favour empowered committees but if you want
my support you know where I stand.
On Monday, October 24, 2016, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com> wrote:
> As I said, I'm not ready to commit myself on the structure of the
> committee until I have a better grasp on what I would like it to do. If I
> think its discussions will be primarily strategic, I will not want to
> require it do that in public. I envision the committee carrying out
> strategic directions from the LNC; it's still an open question in my mind
> where the line between the two will sit. One thought that occurred to me
> this morning, which I had not thought of before, is the fact that the LNC
> will have to adopt its strategic directions to the committee in open
> session since our rules prohibit us from making decisions in executive
> session. I haven't figured out how to handle that yet.
>
> As I indicated before, what matters to me most on transparency is making
> sure that members have the ability to judge the LNC and its members.
> Committee appointees are not subject to a vote of the general membership
> and so I see less value there. This is, on the other hand, why it is
> important to me that (non-bylaws-mandated) committees, as much as possible,
> execute plans constructed by the LNC - so that big-picture items,
> high-level strategy, etc., are made by those who can be judged and
> reelected or not. I believe in empowered committees, but within the
> bounds, primarily, of tactics, with strategic direction coming from the LNC.
>
> Joshua A. Katz
> Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)
>
> On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 12:33 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
> carynannharlos at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','carynannharlos at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>> I highly suggest you have protections for transparency in place in this
>> committee or it is a nightmare waiting to happen.
>>
>> And though others *may* place less importance on member sentiment than I
>> seem to - an opaque Committe will deeply disturb an active constituency and
>> in my own opinion - violate hard won member rights.
>>
>> It truly bothers me to say that the institutional reassertion of
>> reluctance to transparency, institutional bias to not say anything strong
>> or fiercely principled, and the institutional inertia in general is making
>> me feel like the only sane course of action is to be Dr. No. and I hate to
>> see that because it serves nothing to move things forward - but does serve
>> to keep things at least not arguably worse off.
>>
>> This is a new age - one of Wikileaks and millennials who do not trust or
>> like hierarchal secrecy.
>>
>> On Monday, October 24, 2016, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Forwarded on behalf of David Demarest.
>>>
>>> I will have more to write on this topic later, but for now, let me note
>>> that I plan to have a motion to introduce in December. I don't see any
>>> rush at this point to do it by email ballot. When I have drafted it, I
>>> will distribute my proposal for comment.
>>>
>>> I'll state ahead of time that my support for such a committee is not
>>> conditioned on any other policies being passed, and I do not fully agree
>>> with the comments about transparency for this particular committee either,
>>> at least, at the moment. Once I've thought through the committee question
>>> more fully, I'll have a more fully developed position on how it should
>>> operate.
>>>
>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>> Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Demarest, David P. <David.Demarest at firstdata.com>
>>> Date: Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 10:31 AM
>>> Subject: RE: [Lnc-business] Motion: Assemblyman Moore - request for
>>> co-sponsors
>>> To: "lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org" <IMCEAMAILTO-lnc-business-boun
>>> ces+40hq+2Elp+2Eorg at firstdata.com>
>>> Cc: "Cari L. Garcia (GarciaCL at C-IV.org)" <GarciaCL at c-iv.org>, "
>>> ken.moellman at lpky.org" <ken.moellman at lpky.org>, "Starchild (
>>> sfdreamer at earthlink.net)" <sfdreamer at earthlink.net>, "William Redpath (
>>> wredpath2 at yahoo.com)" <wredpath2 at yahoo.com>, "planning4liberty at gmail.com"
>>> <planning4liberty at gmail.com>, "chair at lp.org" <chair at lp.org>, "
>>> vicechair at lp.org" <vicechair at lp.org>, "secretary at lp.org" <
>>> secretary at lp.org>, "Demarest, David P." <David.Demarest at firstdata.com>,
>>> David Demarest <dpdemarest at centurylink.net>
>>>
>>>
>>> A Candidate Support Committee might encompass the following functions,
>>> many of which are overlapping:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. Candidate recruitment
>>>
>>> 2. Candidate vetting for endorsement
>>>
>>> 3. Candidate endorsement
>>>
>>> 4. Endorsed candidate training
>>>
>>> 5. Endorsed candidate campaign financial contributions
>>>
>>> 6. Endorsed candidate logistical support
>>>
>>> 7. Endorsed candidate promotional support
>>>
>>> 8. Endorsed candidate moral support
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In the wake of Assemblyman Moore’s votes, the question from my
>>> perspective is NOT whether we need such a committee. My question is whether
>>> or not the significant responsibilities and workload suggest that two
>>> committees might be warranted. I recognize, however, that separation of the
>>> overlapping tasks might be more trouble than it is worth. It makes more
>>> sense to start with just one committee, see how that works out and expand
>>> to two committees if necessary.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I would cosponsor a motion to create an LNC Candidate Support Committee
>>> (CSC) with the proviso that the motion to create the committee address
>>> Caryn’s transparency concerns and her objections to creating an opaque
>>> committee. I would be glad to help those who are expert in the wording of
>>> motions develop such a motion.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *The War on Majority Rule Authoritarian Cronyism Begins Now*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Caryn Ann Harlos [mailto:carynannharlos at gmail.com]
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 23, 2016 10:04 PM
>>> *To:* Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org>
>>> *Cc:* David Demarest <dpdemarest at centurylink.net>;
>>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org; William Redpath <wredpath2 at yahoo.com>;
>>> Demarest, David P. <David.Demarest at firstdata.com>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] Motion: Assemblyman Moore - request for
>>> co-sponsors
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There has been such talk. Primarily by me and Joshua. And I will not
>>> vote for or support an opaque committee. I want this committee, but this
>>> institutional fondness for opacity must be overcome as a condition for my
>>> support. Of course, I am but one person, but I am laying my cards on the
>>> table.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 8:56 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There has been talk of creating a Candidate Support Committee. I would
>>> suggest that this be a task given to that Committee in future elections.
>>> They will be working directly with candidates. They will have the best idea
>>> of which candidates qualify as both a serious candidate and a "good"
>>> Libertarian.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2016-10-23 22:20, David Demarest wrote:
>>>
>>> How is candidate endorsement and vetting for endorsement handled by the
>>> LNC? Does the LNC need a candidate endorsement committee?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The LP Radical Caucus has a strong candidate endorsement committee and
>>> process. All candidates requesting LPRC endorsement and campaign
>>> contributions must pass muster with the endorsement committee before their
>>> request is presented to the board where they must receive 100% approval. It
>>> is a stringent process and a responsibility that is taken very seriously.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *The Invisible Hand of Rational Self-Interest is Mightier Than the Sword
>>> of Government!*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] *On Behalf
>>> Of *Ken Moellman
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 23, 2016 8:37 PM
>>> *To:* Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com>
>>> *Cc:* William Redpath <wredpath2 at yahoo.com>; Demarest, David P. <
>>> David.Demarest at firstdata.com>; lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] Motion: Assemblyman Moore - request for
>>> co-sponsors
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I do think that larger the lesson here is that this body, in present and
>>> future forms, should do a better job of vetting where money is given. I
>>> think the Candidate Support Committee should be tasked with the creation of
>>> a qualifying checklist for vetting and recommending financial support for
>>> certain races. I think the idea of a candidate contract as a prerequisite
>>> for financial support from the LNC is reasonable (it even provides the
>>> candidates with some cover when the political pressure gets really high).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I try not to dwell on the failures of the past, but on how to avoid them
>>> in the future. Perform root cause analysis and implement procedures on how
>>> to avoid the problem in the future. Having everyone get together and scold
>>> someone for a failure is not productive, nor is it conducive to a positive
>>> environment.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2016-10-23 20:57, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>
>>> A future tyrantatarian LNC will do what it wants anyways. And we gave
>>> money to this campaign. This is not at all a grey area and thus the
>>> analogies not even remotely relevant.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The precedent that is being set now is that the LNC will never give
>>> money to another candidate again if we do not retain this right if we want
>>> to talk precedents.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Living in a spirit of fear is the surest way to cripple and ideological
>>> movement.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 6:52 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I can point to specific members in the party who would claim:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1A. Anyone who supports mandatory GMO labeling isn't libertarian.
>>>
>>> 1B. Anyone who rejects GMO mandatory labeling isn't libertarian.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2A. Anyone who supports mandatory vaccination isn't libertarian.
>>>
>>> 2B. Anyone who rejects mandatory vaccination isn't libertarian.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 3A. Anyone who supports keeping abortion legal isn't libertarian.
>>>
>>> 3B. Anyone who supports making abortion illegal isn't libertarian.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Some of these members find these issues to be single-issue
>>> "disqualifiers" for being a libertarian. And certainly others exist.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Now, this case isn't as controversial; I'm not sure I know any
>>> libertarians who are pleased about a $750M project. But I fear that the LNC
>>> censuring a candidate is opening Pandora's Box. Think about 10 years from
>>> now, when some faction that's hot-and-bothered about one of these divisive
>>> issues listed above gets a majority on the LNC and decides to start
>>> censuring people under the precedent.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2016-10-23 19:01, Starchild wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree that the precedent we set here is a matter of concern. The
>>> precedent I'm concerned about is the possibility of a Libertarian
>>> officeholder casting votes like the ones in question and not facing serious
>>> repercussions from the party.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Love & Liberty,
>>>
>>> ((( starchild )))
>>>
>>> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>>>
>>> (415) 625-FREE
>>>
>>> @StarchildSF
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 23, 2016, at 1:27 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>
>>> I doubt NV would not support the censure. A Nevada board member asked
>>> me.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is not blanket precedent. We have money and it is egregious and we
>>> can't not do the right thing because we fear a tyrantatarian future LNC.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, October 23, 2016, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you on the clarification on who's asking for the censure. I do
>>> think it would hold a bit more weight if the affiliate was officially
>>> asking. This body's interference in affiliate matters has caused problems
>>> before.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My greatest concern, after considering this for days, is the setting of
>>> precedent. Who's to say that a future LNC might censure for something far
>>> less; for something legitimately disputed in the party or within the
>>> broader philosophy?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't recall the LNC ever censuring a candidate. In 2008, we had an
>>> issue with a candidate in KY. We took care of it our way, and we didn't
>>> look to the LNC to do anything, though many others did ask the LNC to
>>> intervene. In that scenario, we were able to block the candidate from the
>>> ballot line and that was that.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2016-10-22 00:04, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>
>>> The goal is for Libertarian candidates to not completely fundamentally
>>> betray basic principles in such a flagrant manner and sabotaging the
>>> efforts in a specific issue of the Party (the affiliate in this case). The
>>> Motion itself says what we hope - for the candidate to take Libertarian
>>> stances in the future. If he cannot, then switching to an affiliation that
>>> accurately reflects his principles is a choice he would have to make. That
>>> isn't our goal. But it certainly isn't our goal to assist a betrayal of
>>> the affiliate and principles.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I do not know if we have before. And if there is censurable behaviour
>>> to a candidate that we have spent members' funds supporting, then yes. That
>>> is something we should consider doing. Once again, we are the "party of
>>> principle" and if voting for a 750 million dollar crony capitalist subsidy
>>> isn't a censurable violation then we have truly lost our way. Asking for a
>>> bright line rule is once again appropos to my pornography analogy. There
>>> are a host of factors, and we know it when we see it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The LPNV has spoken to the candidate. He has given a public
>>> explanation. This is public accountability.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The affiliate has not officially asked National to censure. Some LPNV
>>> members have. As have members elsewhere.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 9:48 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I would submit that prior to censure, a conversation might be in order
>>> to get more information. We don't even have all of the facts. Here's what
>>> we know:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. We have a candidate who is an elected official, was approved by an
>>> affiliate to run as an L, and to which the LNC gave money.
>>>
>>> 2. The candidate voted for 2 tax increases, the latter of which is to
>>> entice a franchise in a monopoly to come to his district.
>>>
>>> 3. The candidate claims 60% of his constituents supported the latter one.
>>>
>>> 4. The affiliate that nominated him is angry, has censured the
>>> candidate, and has asked National to censure as well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Now, if the goal is to get Moore to switch to some other affiliation or
>>> to Independent, then certainly censure would be a good start. But I think
>>> it might be good to speak to the elected official first.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And the question about "what's the line for this body?" is extremely
>>> relevant. Has this body ever censured a candidate or elected
>>> Libertarian before? Is this a practice we want this body to make more
>>> regular?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Again, I'm not in favor of this cronyist garbage, and after Cincinnati
>>> signed a similarly-stupid deal with the Bengals, and tied revenue to an
>>> increased local sales tax, I just avoid buying things in Cincinnati when
>>> possible.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2016-10-21 23:22, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>
>>> And I would distinguish greatly a state candidate from our national
>>> candidate which was ratified and consented to by delegates at a national
>>> convention. A state candidate is ratified by those delegates (in most
>>> states and in normal circumstances which do not involve a mid-term Party
>>> affiliation switch). In such a case I give great deference to the
>>> affiliate that welcomed and championed. And once again, Nevada has made
>>> their absolute displeasure and sense of betrayal clear.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 9:19 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I find what if's and mining the subjunctives to be unhelpful
>>> personally. I do not know what kind of transgression would warrant in a
>>> "what if" situation. I would say yes, we should always be willing. Our
>>> duty is not to any elected person but to the Party itself and the
>>> principles for which we stand. This is a clear egregious violation which
>>> is somewhat like what some say about "pornography" - I know it when I see
>>> it. I would ask if someone commits to be a Libertarian and acts completely
>>> against Libertarian principles and received money from the National
>>> Committee of said Party is that committing fraud against the body? If the
>>> constituents feel defrauded (particularly since they elected a Republican,
>>> not a Libertarian) then it is up to them to deal with, not us. Our
>>> standing and duty is to the LP and the members.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This isn't a minor issue. This was major with a capital M. And Nevada
>>> has made clear how they feel about it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The minute was have the "uncensurable" we are doomed. We are the "Party
>>> of Principle" and we need to have the backbone to at some point say enough
>>> is enough, particularly when we spent $10K of our members' money.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 9:12 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm glad that the dilemma is understood. And you did bring up the other
>>> question I had, after further consideration; would we, as a body, be
>>> willing to censure an elected Libertarian President Johnson? If this is
>>> the case, how bad would the transgression need to be before this body
>>> rebukes its own first elected President?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We really need to help give our candidates and elected officials, to the
>>> limited extent that they exist, be successful champions for liberty. And by
>>> "we", I mean every person who says they're a libertarian. If we can't go
>>> out and help convince other people's minds, then we're failing as activists
>>> and supporters. IMO, the root problem here is that 60% number. Why do 60%
>>> of the people in Moore's district support this?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As I further discussed this with a few others this afternoon and
>>> evening, I had another thought. If someone is elected to represent the
>>> people of his district and fails to do so, would that person be engaging in
>>> fraud against the constituents?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Every candidate and elected official has negatives. I personally prefer
>>> to focus on a candidate's positives, rather than dwelling on their
>>> negatives. If the negatives exceed the positives, then I start looking for
>>> an alternate course of action.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2016-10-21 16:05, Demarest, David P. wrote:
>>>
>>> Ken,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you for your honest and thoughtful devil's advocate response
>>> regarding the proposed censure of John Moore. We can, however, view
>>> Assemblyman Moore's two egregious votes as an golden opportunity for LNC
>>> members to think outside the box to examine root causes and design short
>>> and long term solutions to the difficult dilemma faced by all Libertarian
>>> politicians. The dilemma is how to reconcile the dictates of one's
>>> Libertarian conscience with the realities of our current political
>>> environment that is rife with the cronyism necessary to get elected or
>>> reelected. The choice is between voting your conscience at the risk of not
>>> being reelected or violating your conscience to get reelected and live to
>>> fight another day in office.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I would submit that Moore's violation of his conscience to get reelected
>>> makes him part of the problem of spiraling cronyism that is inexorably
>>> destroying our way of life and accelerating our economy and society down
>>> the path of destruction that history demonstrates is the inevitable fate of
>>> all compulsory territorial governments. Most of us support Gary Johnson in
>>> spite of specific misgivings because it is obvious that Gary is so much
>>> better than the other choices and would undoubtedly make things far better
>>> than the other candidates. If Johnson is elected, however, we know that
>>> despite his honestly about his platform, many of his decisions will give us
>>> heartburn. Our short-term act of censuring Moore will send a clear and
>>> unambiguous message that statist actions by Libertarian officials to save
>>> political seats are unacceptable violations of conscience that will not be
>>> tolerated. The proposed censure of Moore will serve as an educational
>>> message for all present and future Libertarian officials including those
>>> who switch from other parties.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Long-term solutions require that we understand that cronyism does not
>>> fare well in the competitive context of the free-market. By contrast,
>>> cronyism is aggressively fostered in our current compulsory authoritarian
>>> majority rule system. We as Libertarians face an uphill battle if we choose
>>> to rely solely on a top-down legislative authoritarian approach to rescue
>>> us from the tsunami of cronyism that will swamp our ship of state if we do
>>> not reverse course promptly and with a sense of urgency.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The crushing curse of cronyism will not be reversed until we change the
>>> context of government to minimize instead of fostering cronyism. To get
>>> straight to the point, that change in context to discourage cronyism will
>>> not occur until we achieve competitive governance and competitive social
>>> services. I would further submit that we must supplement our top-down
>>> legislative strategy with a robust, bottom-up entrepreneurial peaceful
>>> freedom revolution fueled by peer-to-peer technology. Then and only then
>>> will we create the political climate necessary to elect Libertarian
>>> officials to all levels of government and establish the environment of
>>> competitive governance and social services that is an absolute prerequisite
>>> if we seriously intend to minimize cronyism and save our way of life for
>>> future generations.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *The War on Majority Rule Authoritarian Cronyism Begins Now*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>>>
>>> Region 6 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (IA, IL, MN, MO,
>>> ND, NE, WI)
>>>
>>> Secretary Pro Tem, LNC Affiliate Support Committee
>>>
>>> Secretary, Nebraska Libertarian State Central Committee
>>>
>>> Nebraska State Coordinator, LP Radical Caucus
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Caryn Ann Harlos [mailto:carynannharlos at gmail.com]
>>> *Sent:* Friday, October 21, 2016 12:50 PM
>>> *To:* ken.moellman at lpky.org; lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> *Cc:* William Redpath; Demarest, David P.
>>> *Subject:* Re: Motion: Assemblyman Moore - request for co-sponsors
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We have enough cosponsors for a ballot. I will argue for it in the
>>> ballot.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It was an LPNV who last broached this action
>>>
>>> with me - I believe it has the support of the aggrieved affiliate - and
>>> members- who's money we spent.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The second vote was expressly against something the LPNV was opposed to
>>> actively for years.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is a betrayal of the LPNV. And I certainly did not vote (and I
>>> argued zealously) to support a candidate - out of many worthy candidates -
>>> who would take such crony capitalist anti/libertarian power.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 21, 2016, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please allow me to take the Devil's Advocate position, since I probably
>>> won't have a vote that counts anyway. I realize that this position is
>>> unlikely to be popular.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Politics and philosophy can be a tough balancing act. Certainly, there
>>> are instances of this problem with our presidential ticket (bake the cake,
>>> for example) and probably every other campaign out there (vaccination
>>> debate, etc.). Elected officials, and indeed individuals, are faced with
>>> tough decisions between philosophy and reality all the time. Perhaps the
>>> most famous was Jefferson's opposition to slavery while also owning slaves.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Assemblyman Moore reported that a poll of the constituents of his
>>> district showed that about 60% of the constituents supported the deal,
>>> including the associated taxes. Certainly, there could and should have been
>>> a coordinated effort by the opposition to stop this deal by educating the
>>> public. Based on the level of support reported within Assemblyman Moore's
>>> district, those efforts were obviously unsuccessful.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Even taking what was said above into account, I personally
>>> think Assemblyman Moore's greatest failing in this situation came was in
>>> how he supported the deal. A statement about "While I personally do not
>>> support this deal, I voted in favor because my constituents wanted me to do
>>> so" could have been a very good moment. It would have provided an
>>> opportunity to educate the public about the negatives of the deal and
>>> hopefully prevent this type of situation from happening the next time.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So I ask these questions: Do you think that what John Moore did was
>>> driven by philosophy, or by politics? Do you believe that John Moore
>>> wanted higher taxes? As an elected representative, should he represent the
>>> people of his district, or ignore those people in favor of his own
>>> philosophy? Is it more wise to go against the constituency, especially
>>> this close to election day, or is it more wise to fight another day when
>>> your "army" is more organized and can help you win the day?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Just something to think about. I'm not pleased at the idea of yet
>>> another billionaire getting a taxpayer-funded stadium and I don't believe
>>> they create enough economic activity to offset the costs. At least the
>>> team name is appropriate.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2016-10-21 09:27, William Redpath wrote:
>>>
>>> I will also co-sponsor, as I was opposed to the $10,000 motion at the
>>> LNC meeting in July 2016. Bill Redpath
>>> --------------------------------------------
>>> On Thu, 10/20/16, David Demarest <dpdemarest at centurylink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] Motion: Assemblyman Moore - request for
>>> co-sponsors
>>> To: lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> Cc: david.demarest at firstdata.com
>>> Date: Thursday, October 20, 2016, 9:20 PM
>>>
>>> #yiv9175739729
>>> #yiv9175739729 --
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>>> #yiv9175739729 Caryn, I will co-sponsor your
>>> motion to censure John Moore and request that he return the
>>> $10,000 campaign contribution from the LNC. Mr. Moore's
>>> two votes were egregious. Thoughts? Celebrate Life, Set the Bar High
>>> and LIVE FREE! The Invisible Hand of
>>> Self-Interest is Mightier Than the Sword of
>>> Government! ~David Pratt Demaresthttp://www.lpne.org
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.lpne.org&d=CwMFaQ&c=ewHkv9vLloTwhsKn5d4bTdoqsmBfyfooQX5O7EQLv5TtBZ1CwcvjU063xndfqI8U&r=POfq57_C0OM3236VPm9_N_9MhP1EEP_0raNPnh6qDnw&m=IV7aAHavSnzME6gqttSJKf9UdcwCKTeGCnzR9X5ehTM&s=ZPO-4J67vwV6ByD7vb8knOZpRMrndul0DsYJwqVwT_0&e=>
>>> secretary at lpne.orgdpdemarest@centurylink.net
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__centurylink.net&d=CwMFaQ&c=ewHkv9vLloTwhsKn5d4bTdoqsmBfyfooQX5O7EQLv5TtBZ1CwcvjU063xndfqI8U&r=POfq57_C0OM3236VPm9_N_9MhP1EEP_0raNPnh6qDnw&m=IV7aAHavSnzME6gqttSJKf9UdcwCKTeGCnzR9X5ehTM&s=37Lwyhxfp0qUBXRvtP01RB9aT0NWx-ASCm0rjSNqLTk&e=>
>>> david.demarest at firstdata.com
>>> Cell: 402-981-6469Home: 402-493-0873Office: 402-222-7207 From:
>>> Lnc-business
>>> [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>> Sent: Thursday,
>>> October 20, 2016 7:45 PM
>>> To:
>>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> Subject:
>>> [Lnc-business] Motion: Assemblyman Moore - request for
>>> co-sponsors
>>> Multiple
>>> party members including region 1 members have acted that the
>>> LNC take action regarding Assemblyman Moore. While normally,
>>> I would say that is solely an issue for the state party to
>>> handle, unless possibly, a Federal candidate, but in this
>>> case, we spent National Party member's direct monies,
>>> and thus I do agree this is our responsibility. As someone
>>> who advocated for the funds allocation, I believe it is my
>>> responsibility to address this once members raised a
>>> concern:
>>> Whereas Nevada Assemblyman John
>>> Moore, a former Republican who in January 2016 switched to
>>> the Libertarian Party while in office, has during the past
>>> month voted not once but twice in the span of as many days
>>> to raise taxes on his constituents, including a vote to
>>> support a "More Cops" tax which the Libertarian
>>> Party of Nevada has tirelessly and thus far successfully
>>> opposed, and a vote to provide a $750 million subsidy to
>>> finance a billionaire-owned sports stadium at the expense
>>> of, among others, indigent persons renting weekly rooms in
>>> motels; and Whereas the elected leaders of our
>>> state affiliate party in Nevada have rightfully voted to
>>> censure Assemblyman Moore for these egregious votes;
>>> and Whereas we wish to convey a strong
>>> message to all and sundry that while we welcome sitting
>>> legislators in the Republican or Democrat parties who
>>> decide to switch to the Libertarian Party as an act of
>>> conscience, we do not welcome them if they
>>> intend, as members of our party, to continue voting and
>>> acting like Republicans or Democrats; Therefore be it resolved that the
>>> Libertarian National Committee hereby censures Assemblyman
>>> Moore for his recent votes in support of tax increases,
>>> requests that he return the $10,000 campaign contribution
>>> which the LNC this season voted to send him, and admonishes
>>> him to henceforward be a better champion of the values held
>>> by members of the political party with which he has chosen
>>> to affiliate if he intends to remain a
>>> Libertarian.
>>> --
>>> In
>>> Liberty,Caryn Ann
>>> HarlosRegion 1 Representative,
>>> Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado,
>>> Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>> Harlos at LP.orgCommunications Director, Libertarian Party of
>>> ColoradoColorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party
>>> Radical Caucus
>>>
>>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__hq.lp.org_mailman_listinfo_lnc-2Dbusiness-5Fhq.lp.org&d=CwMFaQ&c=ewHkv9vLloTwhsKn5d4bTdoqsmBfyfooQX5O7EQLv5TtBZ1CwcvjU063xndfqI8U&r=POfq57_C0OM3236VPm9_N_9MhP1EEP_0raNPnh6qDnw&m=IV7aAHavSnzME6gqttSJKf9UdcwCKTeGCnzR9X5ehTM&s=wWePA5Va1fCm0ttiTeJdIi3OtI4h0gCUBlEZrJ7f0XI&e=>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__hq.lp.org_mailman_listinfo_lnc-2Dbusiness-5Fhq.lp.org&d=CwMFaQ&c=ewHkv9vLloTwhsKn5d4bTdoqsmBfyfooQX5O7EQLv5TtBZ1CwcvjU063xndfqI8U&r=POfq57_C0OM3236VPm9_N_9MhP1EEP_0raNPnh6qDnw&m=IV7aAHavSnzME6gqttSJKf9UdcwCKTeGCnzR9X5ehTM&s=wWePA5Va1fCm0ttiTeJdIi3OtI4h0gCUBlEZrJ7f0XI&e=>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>
>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>
>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) -
>>> Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>
>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.lpcolorado.org&d=CwMFaQ&c=ewHkv9vLloTwhsKn5d4bTdoqsmBfyfooQX5O7EQLv5TtBZ1CwcvjU063xndfqI8U&r=POfq57_C0OM3236VPm9_N_9MhP1EEP_0raNPnh6qDnw&m=IV7aAHavSnzME6gqttSJKf9UdcwCKTeGCnzR9X5ehTM&s=3CyYsd35iffGrxsilfZ1czCR0oVMAVvw5l_WxZNzv_Y&e=>
>>>
>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.lpradicalcaucus.org&d=CwMFaQ&c=ewHkv9vLloTwhsKn5d4bTdoqsmBfyfooQX5O7EQLv5TtBZ1CwcvjU063xndfqI8U&r=POfq57_C0OM3236VPm9_N_9MhP1EEP_0raNPnh6qDnw&m=IV7aAHavSnzME6gqttSJKf9UdcwCKTeGCnzR9X5ehTM&s=kihfP26osC5fZJDyE0H_cy-uN_zGxmLOgr0D6_xQQg0&e=>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The information in this message may be proprietary and/or confidential,
>>> and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the
>>> intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this
>>> message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
>>> dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly
>>> prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify
>>> First Data immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from
>>> your computer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>
>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>
>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) -
>>> Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>
>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.lpcolorado.org_&d=CwMFaQ&c=ewHkv9vLloTwhsKn5d4bTdoqsmBfyfooQX5O7EQLv5TtBZ1CwcvjU063xndfqI8U&r=POfq57_C0OM3236VPm9_N_9MhP1EEP_0raNPnh6qDnw&m=cCFr4Csdt-oYijwqme17FxwM3RWxW6xmElqiEi0S-0U&s=sFlBSNJ5YFQLbBKiYgsK710B1u0bKPZMBnBXmPKf97U&e=>
>>>
>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.lpradicalcaucus.org_&d=CwMFaQ&c=ewHkv9vLloTwhsKn5d4bTdoqsmBfyfooQX5O7EQLv5TtBZ1CwcvjU063xndfqI8U&r=POfq57_C0OM3236VPm9_N_9MhP1EEP_0raNPnh6qDnw&m=cCFr4Csdt-oYijwqme17FxwM3RWxW6xmElqiEi0S-0U&s=Dsq0GlrCsMNzgLxjh8U9oFjceY5Hdkt3hubPo2otzcM&e=>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>
>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>
>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) -
>>> Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>
>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.lpcolorado.org_&d=CwMFaQ&c=ewHkv9vLloTwhsKn5d4bTdoqsmBfyfooQX5O7EQLv5TtBZ1CwcvjU063xndfqI8U&r=POfq57_C0OM3236VPm9_N_9MhP1EEP_0raNPnh6qDnw&m=cCFr4Csdt-oYijwqme17FxwM3RWxW6xmElqiEi0S-0U&s=sFlBSNJ5YFQLbBKiYgsK710B1u0bKPZMBnBXmPKf97U&e=>
>>>
>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.lpradicalcaucus.org_&d=CwMFaQ&c=ewHkv9vLloTwhsKn5d4bTdoqsmBfyfooQX5O7EQLv5TtBZ1CwcvjU063xndfqI8U&r=POfq57_C0OM3236VPm9_N_9MhP1EEP_0raNPnh6qDnw&m=cCFr4Csdt-oYijwqme17FxwM3RWxW6xmElqiEi0S-0U&s=Dsq0GlrCsMNzgLxjh8U9oFjceY5Hdkt3hubPo2otzcM&e=>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>
>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>
>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) -
>>> Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>
>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.lpcolorado.org_&d=CwMFaQ&c=ewHkv9vLloTwhsKn5d4bTdoqsmBfyfooQX5O7EQLv5TtBZ1CwcvjU063xndfqI8U&r=POfq57_C0OM3236VPm9_N_9MhP1EEP_0raNPnh6qDnw&m=cCFr4Csdt-oYijwqme17FxwM3RWxW6xmElqiEi0S-0U&s=sFlBSNJ5YFQLbBKiYgsK710B1u0bKPZMBnBXmPKf97U&e=>
>>>
>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.lpradicalcaucus.org_&d=CwMFaQ&c=ewHkv9vLloTwhsKn5d4bTdoqsmBfyfooQX5O7EQLv5TtBZ1CwcvjU063xndfqI8U&r=POfq57_C0OM3236VPm9_N_9MhP1EEP_0raNPnh6qDnw&m=cCFr4Csdt-oYijwqme17FxwM3RWxW6xmElqiEi0S-0U&s=Dsq0GlrCsMNzgLxjh8U9oFjceY5Hdkt3hubPo2otzcM&e=>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>
>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>
>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>
>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.lpcolorado.org_&d=CwMFaQ&c=ewHkv9vLloTwhsKn5d4bTdoqsmBfyfooQX5O7EQLv5TtBZ1CwcvjU063xndfqI8U&r=POfq57_C0OM3236VPm9_N_9MhP1EEP_0raNPnh6qDnw&m=cCFr4Csdt-oYijwqme17FxwM3RWxW6xmElqiEi0S-0U&s=sFlBSNJ5YFQLbBKiYgsK710B1u0bKPZMBnBXmPKf97U&e=>
>>>
>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.lpradicalcaucus.org_&d=CwMFaQ&c=ewHkv9vLloTwhsKn5d4bTdoqsmBfyfooQX5O7EQLv5TtBZ1CwcvjU063xndfqI8U&r=POfq57_C0OM3236VPm9_N_9MhP1EEP_0raNPnh6qDnw&m=cCFr4Csdt-oYijwqme17FxwM3RWxW6xmElqiEi0S-0U&s=Dsq0GlrCsMNzgLxjh8U9oFjceY5Hdkt3hubPo2otzcM&e=>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__hq.lp.org_mailman_listinfo_lnc-2Dbusiness-5Fhq.lp.org&d=CwMFaQ&c=ewHkv9vLloTwhsKn5d4bTdoqsmBfyfooQX5O7EQLv5TtBZ1CwcvjU063xndfqI8U&r=POfq57_C0OM3236VPm9_N_9MhP1EEP_0raNPnh6qDnw&m=cCFr4Csdt-oYijwqme17FxwM3RWxW6xmElqiEi0S-0U&s=SA5Vn7SCygjLg7JTnM7cxeGxFkp3vWWMy1n4GMHg-s8&e=>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__hq.lp.org_mailman_listinfo_lnc-2Dbusiness-5Fhq.lp.org&d=CwMFaQ&c=ewHkv9vLloTwhsKn5d4bTdoqsmBfyfooQX5O7EQLv5TtBZ1CwcvjU063xndfqI8U&r=POfq57_C0OM3236VPm9_N_9MhP1EEP_0raNPnh6qDnw&m=cCFr4Csdt-oYijwqme17FxwM3RWxW6xmElqiEi0S-0U&s=SA5Vn7SCygjLg7JTnM7cxeGxFkp3vWWMy1n4GMHg-s8&e=>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>
>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>
>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) -
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Lnc-business at hq.lp.org');>
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
>
--
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
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