[Lnc-business] LP.org website transition botched (as predicted)
Caryn Ann Harlos
carynannharlos at gmail.com
Wed Oct 26 00:23:41 EDT 2016
Everyone, I will chill out a few days as promised, but I want to get on the
record that not having the LNC minutes and link to the LNC Business List on
the website when it went live is a clear Bylaws violation. I am
uninterested in whether or not a marketing firm thinks that is "autustic"
or not. I look forward to this being put to head of the pile to correct.
Whether or not anyone else thinks this should be a priority, our Bylaws say
otherwise. The site should not have went live without this.
1.
The Secretary or a designee shall promptly post notice for each session
of the National Committee; any National Committee proposed agendas; and
approved minutes of each Convention and open National Committee session to
a permanent archive section on the Party’s website. Any person may record
the National Committee’s proceedings while in open session, or subscribe to
a read-only email list on which LNC votes are recorded.
--
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:05 PM, Kevin Ludlow <ludlow at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks, Ken, for the constructive position.
>
> As noted, I would really like to get actual problems with the site
> organized so that they can be tackled. Staff has been working on testing;
> I have been building the infrastructure.
>
> It is very useful to be informed of visible problems so that we can
> address them so any effort you're willing to make in that regard is highly
> appreciated.
>
> ~k
>
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:59 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> I've been involved in lots of various projects throughout my IT career.
>> This website project seems to fit the stereotypical IT project.
>>
>> I personally don't like the layout of the website, but I'm a grumpy "old"
>> man who still likes 2006-era website layouts with drop-down menus and
>> whatnot. The design we need, however, is one targeted at millenials. We
>> know this because of the Johnson campaign's polling. That's the future of
>> this party. I believe that this website accomplishes that task. I'd be
>> interested to see how it looks on a mobile (I'm also still using a
>> Blackberry. Don't ask.)
>>
>> Kevin - Thank you for continuing onward with this project, even though
>> you are no longer on the LNC. As one who's been embroiled in volunteer
>> projects that have run over time and over budget, I know how much of a PITA
>> it is to put the time in and also take the inevitable hits. I'm sure you're
>> all too aware, as well. But I wanted to make sure you knew that at least I
>> knew and recognized what's up.
>>
>> Chuck, and others with concerns - Let's make a list of the "what's
>> wrong", try to prioritize that list based on importance and easy
>> of resolution, and try to work through them. Any website changeover will
>> take time to fix. I know there are some "broken links" where people
>> externally linked things like LP.org/join ... I have a cool graphic from
>> The Advocates that we used on LPKY.org that has the same problem. These can
>> ad should be resolved.
>>
>>
>> As the new IT committee is formed, I'm sure we'll be tasked
>> with assessing these issues and implementing fixes. I ask that everyone
>> please be patient. We have 2 weeks until the election is over. If there's
>> anything election-related that's not working, then we definitely need to
>> address that immediately. Otherwise, let's get through Nov 8th and then we
>> can push forward with this and other projects.
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2016-10-25 23:38, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>
>> Thank you Kevin. I will cool my jets on that issue for a few days and
>> check back in.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *In Liberty,*
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
>> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>> Harlos at LP.org
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, October 25, 2016, Kevin Ludlow <ludlow at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> No problem, Caryn.
>>>
>>> I wouldn't even think days. I would think A day. Staff was tasked with
>>> taking each page from the old Drupal system and importing it into the new
>>> one. As far as I know ALL pages were copied over. They were copied into 1
>>> of 6 (or so) different page templates that were created to serve different
>>> formats of data. So I'm certain we have everything. Even if it hadn't
>>> been copied over, we still have it and it would just need TO BE copied
>>> over, but I don't believe this is the case. I believe in those cases the
>>> links structure may have changed. We have been updating these so that all
>>> incoming links to the old structure point to the appropriate new structure
>>> and send out PERMANENT REDIRECT notifications to Google and such (so things
>>> are updated).
>>>
>>> ~k
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:28 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thank you Kevin.
>>>>
>>>> That is why I was asking staff about them. If we are talking a matter
>>>> of days for that content - that is reasonable. If moreso, not so much.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, October 25, 2016, Kevin Ludlow <ludlow at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Caryn,
>>>>>
>>>>> I genuinely am not trying to avoid those issues. I know content is
>>>>> there. What I'm trying to convey is that from my point of view, if those
>>>>> documents are "opaque" for another 12 hours, I'm okay with that. I realize
>>>>> you might not be, but this goes back to my volunteering work. I have to
>>>>> prioritize work that I am personally responsible for.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I will happily weigh in with staff and get links to them. I can
>>>>> even check the admin pages and see what the current URL is provided they
>>>>> have been copied and not linked.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I really need to know if anything is actually not functioning.
>>>>> This is what my current workload is.
>>>>>
>>>>> I apologize if any of that sounds dismissive. It's not my intent, but
>>>>> I can't do specific projects for you and/or Chuck or the LNC or whomever
>>>>> else right now as I need to make sure the site is fully functional.
>>>>> If/when it IS fully functional (which it very well may already be), then we
>>>>> can address any missing pieces.
>>>>>
>>>>> ~k
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:15 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you Kevin for all your work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can't though not desire answers on the minutes archives and LNC
>>>>>> business list not being there. That is essential for members and cannot be
>>>>>> optional.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can staff answer when those can be restored? This is an acceptable
>>>>>> situation of opacity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tuesday, October 25, 2016, Kevin Ludlow <ludlow at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Caryn,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've always gotten along with you just fine as you're very
>>>>>>> reasonable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In this case, I respectfully disagree that it's useful to deliver a
>>>>>>> 6-page rant citing the "I told you so" lines when the decision has been
>>>>>>> done, executed, and is live. Further, I have been in this business for 20
>>>>>>> years now. We had roughly 2.5 hours of outages this morning between
>>>>>>> roughly 7:45AM and 9:15AM EST. This was only because of the unknown.
>>>>>>> Staff has spent a lot of time testing this software. It was rolled over
>>>>>>> twice already and rolled back just to ensure we COULD roll it back if there
>>>>>>> was a major problem. The point being that we transitioned an entire
>>>>>>> infrastructure from 6 services to ONE, the monthly cost savings should be
>>>>>>> about $500 once everything is in place, and best I can tell nothing is
>>>>>>> broken - there are just complaints that some things are missing (which
>>>>>>> they're definitely not, but I'll concede that perhaps staff hasn't finished
>>>>>>> adding links - I honestly don't know right now).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are no major problems that anyone has reported save for the
>>>>>>> overloading this morning. The page content was always intended to / has
>>>>>>> been / and IS preserved. If a link isn't immediately visible, then staff
>>>>>>> can correct that if appropriate.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IF there are broken links, namely as a URL may have changed and
>>>>>>> needs to be forwarded now, I would really, genuinely like to know so I can
>>>>>>> fix those problems. I offered that to Chuck. I offered it to you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That said, we can start however necessary. I have ostensibly worked
>>>>>>> on this for 3.5 straight weeks. That is not because of the website itself,
>>>>>>> but rather the years of garbaged up infrastructure. We would have rolled
>>>>>>> the site out 6 weeks ago if not for all of that. My point being that I've
>>>>>>> been voluntarily taking on FAR more work than was entailed in the website
>>>>>>> redesign itself because our infrastructure couldn't handle the modern
>>>>>>> codebase (it is roughly 8 years out of spec).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would ask that you leave whatever issues you have with content
>>>>>>> alone for the time being. I'm not saying they won't be addressed, I'm
>>>>>>> saying that it's not a primary concern. The primary concern is ensuring
>>>>>>> that the site is running so it can serve up any content. IF there is a
>>>>>>> problem with something not loading, we need to know that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Staff has copied over existing pages and so nothing is lost or
>>>>>>> destroyed or anything of this sort.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I need to convey though, that I am not on the clock for the people
>>>>>>> on this thread. I have been, and am continuing to volunteer a tremendous
>>>>>>> amount of time to ensure this is completed smoothly. I am happy to try and
>>>>>>> fix things that are broken. I'm very uninterested in listening to Mr.
>>>>>>> Molton rant on about his discontent with the structure. It's done. That
>>>>>>> ship sailed in February.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So that's where I'm at. By all means, please inform me of broken
>>>>>>> pieces so we can look at and correct anything ASAP.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ~k
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:01 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kevin,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He was writing as a member to a busy elected to SERVE members.
>>>>>>>> That means sometimes we will hear things we don't want to and have to
>>>>>>>> respond to very upset complaints. No matter what anyone says -
>>>>>>>> high-handed responses are not appropriate IMHO.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I didn't agree with Chuck's desire to see heads roll. I said so
>>>>>>>> respectfully,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Can we start again?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, October 25, 2016, Kevin Ludlow <ludlow at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Caryn,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chuck opened with whoever made the decision was a MORON and should
>>>>>>>>> be FIRED.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think my response was in line.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regardless, I remain open to seeing links broken. I'm sure some
>>>>>>>>> still exist. We launched the site this morning. Staff has spent weeks
>>>>>>>>> testing the site and fixing links and such. I'm all for fixing dead links,
>>>>>>>>> but 6 pages of complaints without any information is not helpful.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Also, I'm not a member of the LNC. I'm a volunteer only. So I
>>>>>>>>> don't really owe anyone anything. I've delightfully put in a couple hundred
>>>>>>>>> hours so far. That's the best I'm willing to do at this point given such a
>>>>>>>>> response.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> K
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, October 25, 2016, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Kevin, that was an inappropriate response to concerns of a member
>>>>>>>>>> IMHO- his concerns are valid and shouldn't be dismissed as "oh you
>>>>>>>>>> Libertarians, you are a minority - we can safely ignore you."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Where are the links to the LNC Business list, the old blog
>>>>>>>>>> articles, and the past minutes?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Can we have the discussion without sarcasm and without putting
>>>>>>>>>> down Libertarians as inconsequential?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 8:19 PM, Kevin Ludlow <ludlow at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Chuck,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the constructive feedback.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'll delightfully take credit/responsibility for whatever and
>>>>>>>>>>> all actions you've written about. Please pardon Nick, Robert, Wes, and
>>>>>>>>>>> anybody else in your crosshairs. I'm sure they'll be relieved to be spared.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not going to read that entire document you've sent as I've
>>>>>>>>>>> spent the last 3 weeks trying to fix the party's infrastructure for the
>>>>>>>>>>> website TO go live. It was finished two days ago, it was launched last
>>>>>>>>>>> night. That was my call.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What would be useful right now would be if you could point out
>>>>>>>>>>> the broken links so that we can assign permanent redirects to them. Any
>>>>>>>>>>> page content that existed STILL exists. This has been made clear over and
>>>>>>>>>>> over again. It's possible that some page links have not been forwarded,
>>>>>>>>>>> but I've been monitoring logs on all 4 servers all day and have not seen
>>>>>>>>>>> many 404s. The downtime this morning wasn't actually from an outage, but
>>>>>>>>>>> rather ME under-predicting the load our servers would take. This is
>>>>>>>>>>> admittedly because I didn't have any data to go on because -- well -- we've
>>>>>>>>>>> not really ever kept any before. I made the best prediction I could; I way
>>>>>>>>>>> under-estimated. The servers were scaled up and unless you're seeing
>>>>>>>>>>> something different, the site has been running fine all day since about
>>>>>>>>>>> 9:45am CST. It was running before that just fine too, but the morning
>>>>>>>>>>> surge in traffic overwhelmed it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So anyway, if you'd like to submit broken links, we'd love to
>>>>>>>>>>> set up additional forwards. Overall though, I'm pretty happy with the
>>>>>>>>>>> change. I'm happy we've done it before the election - even if it wound up
>>>>>>>>>>> being delayed from our proposed launch of September 29th.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The old site was very, very bad. I know you're a tech guy all
>>>>>>>>>>> the way. I know words resonate with you and not colors and images and
>>>>>>>>>>> feelings and emotions. But you comprise a very, very, VERY small portion
>>>>>>>>>>> of the American electorate and the new site was designed to appeal to
>>>>>>>>>>> people who are visually oriented, not interested in reading walls of text,
>>>>>>>>>>> and might have the attention span of a few seconds at best (eg: the vast
>>>>>>>>>>> majority of people). It was designed for people who might not care about
>>>>>>>>>>> the Libertarian Party - in hopes that something grabs their attention and
>>>>>>>>>>> they begin to care. We don't need to "win over" existing Libertarians --
>>>>>>>>>>> or at least one would think, but it's honestly hard to tell these days.
>>>>>>>>>>> Regardless, it was decided. It's done. You can hate it. But I'd still
>>>>>>>>>>> love your help in knowing where links are broken instead of mostly ignoring
>>>>>>>>>>> another wall of text. That would help ensure that it's in good shape.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If you'd like to vent further, feel free to call me at
>>>>>>>>>>> 512-773-3968 to spare the group.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 8:56 PM, Chuck Moulton <
>>>>>>>>>>> chuck at moulton.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> LNC members,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Many of the problems I warned about have in fact come to pass.
>>>>>>>>>>>> It is Cassandra's Curse: always right but never believed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> See the exchange from IPR quoted below (in the P.S.) for
>>>>>>>>>>>> context and institutional memory. I'll quote and discuss some of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> highlights here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> WARNING #1: TRANSITIONS CAN BE BOTCHED, LEADING TO DOWNTIME —
>>>>>>>>>>>> AT THE WORST TIME IN THE ELECTION CYCLE FOR SUCH DOWNTIME: THE PRESIDENTIAL
>>>>>>>>>>>> CAMPAIGN.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This buggy transition was implemented 13 days before the
>>>>>>>>>>>> presidential election. That is the 13th worst day in a 4 year cycle to
>>>>>>>>>>>> unveil a new a new website. There were/are 1,448 better days to change to
>>>>>>>>>>>> a new website in a 4 year cycle.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Whatever MORON decided to switch to a new website today instead
>>>>>>>>>>>> of after the election should be immediately FIRED. Do not pass go, do not
>>>>>>>>>>>> collect $200. FIRED. I can't imagine a stupider, more incompetent,
>>>>>>>>>>>> strategically insane decision than pulling the plug on a working website
>>>>>>>>>>>> and trying out a new, buggy website immediately before a presidential
>>>>>>>>>>>> election. It is INSANE.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I like staff, but if Wes Benedict made this idiotic decision,
>>>>>>>>>>>> FIRE HIM IMMEDIATELY.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I like much of the LNC, but if Nick Sarwark made this idiotic
>>>>>>>>>>>> decision, SUSPEND HIM FOR CAUSE IMMEDIATELY (I'll gladly recuse myself as a
>>>>>>>>>>>> member of the Judicial Committee if he appeals).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If Kevin Ludlow made this idiotic decision, RESCIND THE
>>>>>>>>>>>> FEBRUARY 2016 MOTION GIVING LUDLOW UNILATERAL AUTHORITY OVER THE LP'S MOST
>>>>>>>>>>>> IMPORTANT ASSET IMMEDIATELY.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Everything we were told about a professional transition that
>>>>>>>>>>>> does not suffer from the pitfalls I highlighted was a lie.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It takes significantly more time for lp.org pages to load than
>>>>>>>>>>>> before. The site has been down on & off all day long. For a while people
>>>>>>>>>>>> were directed to another domain whenever they went to a LP page:
>>>>>>>>>>>> libparty.zocalodesign.com.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> WARNING #2: A LOT OF CONTENT IS REMOVED. LACK OF THAT CONTENT
>>>>>>>>>>>> MAKES IT MUCH HARDER TO ENERGIZE PROSPECTS; GET DONATIONS, VOLUNTEERS, AND
>>>>>>>>>>>> CANDIDATES; AND TRAIN LIBERTARIANS ON BEST PRACTICES.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact (as predicted), a lot of content has been removed from
>>>>>>>>>>>> lp.org.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> For example, as chair of the Judicial Committee I wonder what
>>>>>>>>>>>> happened to the webpage listing bylaws mandated committee members?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Where is the link to the LP Business list?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Where are the LNC minute archives before 2015?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I could go on and on, but I cover this point more broadly in my
>>>>>>>>>>>> next unheeded warning.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I was repeatedly assured that content would not be removed,
>>>>>>>>>>>> except that the front page would be made less cluttered. That was a lie.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> WARNING #3: BOTH CONTENT REMOVAL AND TRANSITIONS TO A NEW
>>>>>>>>>>>> SYSTEM MAY LEAD SOME PAGES TO BE REMOVED OR MOVED, BREAKING LINKS TO PARTS
>>>>>>>>>>>> OF THE SITE FROM ALL AROUND THE INTERNET AND MAKING US LOOK UNPROFESSIONAL
>>>>>>>>>>>> WITH 404 ERRORS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The number of 404 errors is shocking! Activists have been out
>>>>>>>>>>>> there for months / years promoting our website by linking to it --
>>>>>>>>>>>> especially during this presidential election. Most of those links are now
>>>>>>>>>>>> broken.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Just try clicking on many of these links:
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.google.com/search?site=&source=hp&q=site%3Alp.or
>>>>>>>>>>>> g&oq=site%3Alp.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been told the solution is just to report each broken
>>>>>>>>>>>> link. That is ridiculous! It is completely unprofessional for a website
>>>>>>>>>>>> transition to be reactive instead of proactive -- especially given that
>>>>>>>>>>>> broken links probably number in the thousands. We were assured that this
>>>>>>>>>>>> would be a professional transition, but that was a lie.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> WARNING #4: A NEW SYSTEM REQUIRES RETRAINING STAFF ON PROCESSES
>>>>>>>>>>>> — TIME THAT COULD HAVE BEEN DEVOTED TO OTHER THINGS. EVEN AFTER RETRAINING
>>>>>>>>>>>> THERE WILL BE A LEARNING CURVE... EXTRA TIME FOR WEBSITE RELATED TASKS THAT
>>>>>>>>>>>> COULD HAVE BEEN DEVOTED TO OTHER THINGS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact (as predicted), staff has mentioned that the website
>>>>>>>>>>>> transition has taken staff time that could have been devoted to other
>>>>>>>>>>>> matters in this busy election season.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Wes Benedict wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/pipermail/lnc-business_hq.lp.org/2016/00657
>>>>>>>>>>>> 7.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I hope we can get those things below implemented early in 2017,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> however, and get back to LPedia and many other projects, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>>>> we're trying to roll out the new LP.org website.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> WARNING #5: INTERNAL SCRIPTS THAT CURRENTLY AUTOMATICALLY SHOOT
>>>>>>>>>>>> DATA TO STATE AFFILIATES SUCH AS THE VOLUNTEER FORM, THE WANT TO BE A
>>>>>>>>>>>> CANDIDATE FORM, THE INFO FORM, ETC. MAY STOP WORKING, WHICH WOULD DEPRIVE
>>>>>>>>>>>> STATES OF A VALUABLE SOURCE OF LEADS DURING A TRANSITION PERIOD.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Do these all still work? I don't know. I can't currently test
>>>>>>>>>>>> this as I am not a state chair right now. I hope someone is testing this
>>>>>>>>>>>> stuff. Based on all of the other monumental errors highlighted above, I
>>>>>>>>>>>> certainly don't trust whoever oversaw the website transition to have done
>>>>>>>>>>>> this testing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You all made a monumental error when you voted on this
>>>>>>>>>>>> website. Please do whatever you can to minimize the damage and triage the
>>>>>>>>>>>> website that is being butchered before your very eyes. I hope the lost
>>>>>>>>>>>> content can be restored and the bugs can be fixed ASAP. Even if everything
>>>>>>>>>>>> is fixed within the next week though, the timing is still horrendous.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chuck Moulton
>>>>>>>>>>>> Life Member & Monthly Pledger, Libertarian Party
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> P.S. See below for context on this botched website transition
>>>>>>>>>>>> and eerily accurate prophesies from people with a clue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin Ludlow wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/pipermail/lnc-business_hq.lp.org/2016/00416
>>>>>>>>>>>> 4.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) Our website is a joke. I mean a real, horrible, laughable,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's 1996 and the www portion of the internet has just been
>>>>>>>>>>>>> unleashed" joke. It's got ridiculous internal ads all over it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> terribly organized. It uses bad images. It has an outdated
>>>>>>>>>>>>> font, not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> great font colors, and antiquated font-spacing and sizing. It
>>>>>>>>>>>>> barely
>>>>>>>>>>>>> functions on mobile devices. It's full of information it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't need
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to have. It conveys that we're not a serious organization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin Ludlow wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/pipermail/lnc-business_hq.lp.org/2016/00428
>>>>>>>>>>>> 3.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We want to do all of these things. So I'm asking you, just
>>>>>>>>>>>>> stop what
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're doing for 30 seconds, reflect what could happen if we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually tried to accomplish this one little task. What is the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> WORST
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that could happen? We fail? We're in a very slightly worse
>>>>>>>>>>>>> financial
>>>>>>>>>>>>> position than we already are? But now consider what is the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> BEST that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> could happen? Maybe this tailspin of a cash hole we're in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> stops.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> MAYBE people would see that the LNC is doing something
>>>>>>>>>>>>> external.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> MAYBE people would have their morale boosted just a little bit
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be more inclined to donate. MAYBE we could use it as a way to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> leverage requesting donations from people.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chuck Moulton wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2016/02/libertarian-na
>>>>>>>>>>>> tional-committee-meeting-streaming-now/#comment-1321872
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What's the worst that can happen? It's not $20,000 wasted.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty stupid thinking there... accounting rather than
>>>>>>>>>>>>> economics. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>> worst that can happen is the site is much worse than before. A
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of content is removed. Lack of that content makes it much
>>>>>>>>>>>>> harder to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> energize prospects; get donations, volunteers, and candidates;
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> train libertarians on best practices. A new system requires
>>>>>>>>>>>>> retraining staff on processes — time that coupd have been
>>>>>>>>>>>>> devoted to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> other things. Even after retraining there will be a learning
>>>>>>>>>>>>> curve...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> extra time for website related tasks that could have been
>>>>>>>>>>>>> devoted to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> other things. Will conversion of new visitors go up with a new
>>>>>>>>>>>>> flashy styled website? Maybe, but it could also go down, which
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> potential cost. This is especially likely when the focus is on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> design/style rather than the technical features under the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hood. When
>>>>>>>>>>>>> content is removed it may piss off current donors and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> activists, who
>>>>>>>>>>>>> may reduce their donations and activism. Both content removal
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> transitions to a new system may lead some pages to be removed
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> moved, breaking links to parts of the site from all around the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Internet and making us look unprofessional with 404 errors. New
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sites often start out with a few bugs and errors which can
>>>>>>>>>>>>> take a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> while to track down... the site may look less professional in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> interim. Transitions can be botched, leading to downtime — at
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> worst time in the election cycle for such downtime: the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> presidential
>>>>>>>>>>>>> campaign. Internal scripts that currently automatically shoot
>>>>>>>>>>>>> data to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> state affiliates such as the volunteer form, the want to be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidate form, the info form, etc. may stop working, which
>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> deprive states of a valuable source of leads during a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> transition
>>>>>>>>>>>>> period. That's just what I could come up with off the top of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> my head...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> there are probably a lot more.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin Ludlow wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2016/02/libertarian-na
>>>>>>>>>>>> tional-committee-meeting-streaming-now/#comment-1321907
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've launched many large scale sites just in the past year and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> single one of those sites had any of the problems you're
>>>>>>>>>>>>> referring
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to. They DID – when they were on our development and testing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> servers
>>>>>>>>>>>>> – but not when they went into production. That's how web
>>>>>>>>>>>>> launches
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are done professionally. A thorough maintenance schedule would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be implemented and the website would be designed for minimal
>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintainability in the first place. ...also in accordance with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>>>>>>>> practices.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin Ludlow wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2016/02/libertarian-na
>>>>>>>>>>>> tional-committee-meeting-streaming-now/#comment-1322226
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Furthermore, there is absolutely NO intention to remove
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Libertarian
>>>>>>>>>>>>> content from the website. This crowd has an astounding ability
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> spin half-truths and bake them into something entirely
>>>>>>>>>>>>> different. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will clarify specifically what is meant by moving them around.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The FRONT PAGE of a website (for a non-profit, business, or any
>>>>>>>>>>>>> other organization) is NOT to leave people with walls of text.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to create a fast and positive impression and to get a call to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> action.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Having dozens and dozens of options is incredibly poor design,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> thoroughly proven to be ineffective, and generally an archaic
>>>>>>>>>>>>> website idea. The current website is not responsive; it does
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not work
>>>>>>>>>>>>> well (and not at all in some cases) on mobile and tablet
>>>>>>>>>>>>> devices.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chuck Moulton wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2016/02/libertarian-na
>>>>>>>>>>>> tional-committee-meeting-streaming-now/#comment-1322257
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Great! Somehow in all your emails to the LNC (I read every LNC
>>>>>>>>>>>>> business list email) you never mentioned anything about the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> transition process. All you talk about is design/style.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you can manage a transition process well, that's wonderful.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>>>>>>> certainly hasn't been done in the past. The transition from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> FoxPro
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Raiser's Edge was a disaster... it resulted in states not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> receiving
>>>>>>>>>>>>> working dumps for a year and a lot of records being screwed up
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (e.g., deceased coming back to life, etc.). During the website
>>>>>>>>>>>>> transition a decade ago, the LNC meeting minutes archive and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Success 97 and Success 99 seminars were removed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> See the IT Committee discussion and report (pp. 15-16, pp.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 51-59):
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.lp.org/archives/lnc20061111.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If there will be no transition hiccups, that's wonderful news.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You
>>>>>>>>>>>>> still didn't address all the scripts on the website right now
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the technical considerations Shane discussed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm concerned about giving management of the transition job
>>>>>>>>>>>>> who only
>>>>>>>>>>>>> talks about design/style, wants to remove content
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (supposedly...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> though I see you have now clarified that), and never mentions a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> transition plan to minimize problems.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's great that you're finally talking about a transition
>>>>>>>>>>>>> plan! It's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not my fault it's the first I've heard of it though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are lots of people in the LP (myself included) who have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> seen
>>>>>>>>>>>>> transitions mismanaged and are worried of a repeat of those
>>>>>>>>>>>>> disasters. We're not saying the sky is going to fall because
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We're saying the sky has fallen in the past, we have documented
>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence of this, and you don't seem as on top of the process
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> would hope to prevent similar problems. (You also seem to lack
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> institutional memory to be aware of these past issues.) That's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter of you not communicating your transition plan and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not a matter of us being overly pessimistic.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin Ludlow wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2016/02/libertarian-na
>>>>>>>>>>>> tional-committee-meeting-streaming-now/#comment-1322261
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sorry you've had people half-ass these efforts in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> past. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> definitely cannot say I'm surprised. I focus on style because
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> external world, style IS the most important thing. This in no
>>>>>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>>>>> means I neglect the engine, but in 20 years of delivering
>>>>>>>>>>>>> projects,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nearly 100% of clients will respond positively to a broken
>>>>>>>>>>>>> system
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that looks amazing over a badass functioning system that looks
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ugly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's just psychology. Again, it doesn't mean it doesn't all get
>>>>>>>>>>>>> done.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2016/02/libertarian-na
>>>>>>>>>>>> tional-committee-meeting-streaming-now/#comment-1322267
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've found libertarians have a different psychology than much
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> world. The tech saavy folks will feel talked down to or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ignored if
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you only talk about style, ignoring tech under the hood. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ideological folks will feel defensive if you malign content. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fall
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in both categories, as do others on this thread.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just something to keep in mind for the future.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Stewart Flood wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2016/02/libertarian-na
>>>>>>>>>>>> tional-committee-meeting-streaming-now/#comment-1322926
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So they're creating a new website committee and giving it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> authority
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to screw everything up without having to go back to the LNC to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>>>> approval on which one of their pals they give the money to?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chuck Moulton wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2016/02/libertarian-na
>>>>>>>>>>>> tional-committee-meeting-streaming-now/#comment-1322930
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, they created a new committee with unlimited power over the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> website. Then they spent the whole time debating an irrelevant
>>>>>>>>>>>>> $10,000.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chuck Moulton wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2016/02/libertarian-na
>>>>>>>>>>>> tional-committee-meeting-streaming-now/#comment-1322938
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am hugely concerned about giving any one person carte
>>>>>>>>>>>>> blanche over
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the website.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================
>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin Ludlow
>>>>>>>>>>> 512-773-3968
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.kevinludlow.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> ========================================================
>>>>>>>>> Kevin Ludlow
>>>>>>>>> 512-773-3968
>>>>>>>>> http://www.kevinludlow.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> ========================================================
>>>>>>> Kevin Ludlow
>>>>>>> 512-773-3968
>>>>>>> http://www.kevinludlow.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> ========================================================
>>>>> Kevin Ludlow
>>>>> 512-773-3968
>>>>> http://www.kevinludlow.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ========================================================
>>> Kevin Ludlow
>>> 512-773-3968
>>> http://www.kevinludlow.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *In Liberty,*
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ========================================================
> Kevin Ludlow
> 512-773-3968
> http://www.kevinludlow.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>
>
--
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
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