[Lnc-business] Added Mortgage Payment

Sun Nov 27 15:34:54 EST 2016

But Joshua, if you and I are not repetitive, we disappoint everyone :)

-- 
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>

On Sun, Nov 27, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I would also support an amendment to that effect.  I might try to draw up
> some language, but I don't know that I'll do that prior to December.
>
> On the rest, I disagree, but don't have much else to add at the moment
> that would not be repetitive.
>
> Joshua A. Katz
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 27, 2016 at 1:34 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thank you for clarifying what a house letter is.  I meant to inquire
>> before.  So it seems like my figures are roughly correct, so I will be
>> looking for a minimum $150,000 paydown which is well within the range that
>> Tim said before we could handle.
>>
>> And I have expressed before that I think "oh we budget but don't have to
>> actually pay" is pretzel twisting by the LNC of expert level.  I would
>> favor strengthening the rule to stop that gaming.  And I think "as soon as
>> possible" being made into anything other than the most we can do is also
>> unacceptable, but I suppose this will be the subject of debate.  I think
>> members thought this would be a lot more rigourously applied and would
>> understandably feel, and I would if I step back and put my member hat on,
>> that the LNC is not doing what they expected. Which is to get rid of this
>> debt as soon as possible... I feel like I am Alice - The question is
>> whether we can make words mean so many different things.
>>
>> On LNBN, yes, I hear it from you.  And I don't think turning us into a
>> Washington ladies and lads who lunch is the answer - but we have disagreed
>> on that before (and on whether only things that "require" - another
>> "flexible" word - a national reach and organization is all we should be
>> doing), and that is a different subject.
>>
>>
>> --
>> *In Liberty,*
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 27, 2016 at 11:40 AM, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> A house letter is a fundraising letter.  Robert can provide more
>>> details, but my understanding is that the $22,453 was paid.  It was,
>>> however, less than the $60,000 we were supposed to pay.
>>>
>>> You are correct, the Wiener Rule was mandated only for odd-numbered
>>> years.  While I have not run the numbers myself, my understanding was that,
>>> if followed, that rule would eliminate the balloon payment and amortize the
>>> loan over its lifetime.  The effect of the rule was to remove the enhanced
>>> cash flow in odd-numbered years, where it was believed it would be less
>>> helpful, but maintain that benefit in even-numbered years.  In odd years,
>>> we would pay the same as we were paying in rent; in even years, we would
>>> pay less.
>>>
>>> That was, to my understanding, the spirit.  (I was, of course, not
>>> present when it was adopted, but I was present the first time it applied.)
>>>  As I mentioned earlier, when we were preparing the 2015 budget, there was
>>> discussion about eliminating that rule, which I strongly opposed.  In the
>>> end, we did not change or eliminate it, which in my opinion is a good
>>> thing.  We did budget the money.  Unfortunately, the way the rule operates
>>> does not guarantee that the money will be paid, and it was not.  I would be
>>> open to strengthening the rule for the future, but keep in mind that
>>> standing rules having their application outside the meeting context cannot
>>> be suspended, so some care is needed not to lock ourselves in too tightly.
>>>
>>> In any case, yes, it was decided that this would be prioritized, and I
>>> agree fully with prioritizing it.  That's why I began by saying that I
>>> considered paying back what we shorted last year (plus interest) to be the
>>> absolute minimum.  I don't see the adoption of that goal, though, as
>>> meaning that we won't expand in other areas until it is paid off, just as
>>> it obviously doesn't mean that we can't have staff until it is paid off.
>>> If we followed the rule as stated there, and as it is intended, we'd
>>> achieve the goal of paying it off before the 10 year balloon payment.  "As
>>> soon as possible" is unclear, particularly when phrased as a goal, but I
>>> don't think it means we need to pay all the spare cash we've got - it
>>> certainly doesn't preclude that, either.  My suggestion, again, is that we
>>> regard paying our Wiener Rule commitments as inflexible - that's the
>>> difference for 2015 and the full amount for 2017 - budget for other
>>> programs we regard as important now, and then pay the difference towards
>>> the dead pledge, rather than trying to determine how much more to pay above
>>> Wiener Rule commitments before determining what else we'll do.  Of course,
>>> though, when decided how much to budget to other programs, we should have
>>> in mind that everything we budget means we'll be doing less to pay down the
>>> mortgage, so the threshold for adoption of a project should be not only
>>> that it's worth the cost, but that it's worth the cost plus interest over
>>> time, just as if we had to borrow the money to finance it.
>>>
>>> To repeat a point I've made before, we've got to think more
>>> strategically when we budget, and reference budget lines when we spend
>>> money.  I think it encourages the wrong sort of thinking, and confuses
>>> people, try to decide whether or not to spend X on Y out of "the universe"
>>> rather than spend X on Y out of the budget line for things like Y, which is
>>> Z.
>>>
>>> Regarding "LNBN," I'm not sure how much you're hearing it tossed
>>> around.  Since it's my phrase, I guess I hope you're hearing it tossed
>>> around a lot, but I've only seen it tossed around by me.  In any case, yes,
>>> it's a slogan and content-less without context.  I just meant it to
>>> indicate the thrust of the things I want to see us do, which I see as
>>> "those things that require a national reach and organization."  The one I
>>> harp on the most is appointments, but I'd also include doing more outreach
>>> to the DC Press Corps, certain lobbying operations, and a few other
>>> things.  I didn't specify here, because I wasn't arguing here for anything
>>> specific, just saying that I expect over the term to introduce motions
>>> which, if adopted, would cost various amounts of money, and that I think
>>> others will do so as well. It is not about board governance per say; that's
>>> another pet issue of mine, but a separate one.  I do think more care as
>>> regards governance can lead to clearer goals and better facilitate their
>>> achievement, as well as clarify what goal-setting means, but that's an
>>> indirect connection.
>>>
>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 27, 2016 at 12:02 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Though these numbers will have changed since October, at that time our
>>>> principal was $430,598.33.   It appears that we budgeted in 2015 $67,300
>>>> for Building Fund revenues to pay $60,000 towards the mortgage (as per the
>>>> Policy Manual) and $7,300 for a house letter (I don't know what that
>>>> means), but only raised $22,435.63.  Was that $22,435.63 paid?  Or did it
>>>> go into shorted reserves?  Also have we already paid additional principle
>>>> yet this year?
>>>>
>>>> I believe Robert Kraus said we paid $27,500 extra towards principal in
>>>> 2015 and $22,000 extra toward principal in 2016.  If this is correct, we
>>>> were short $32,500 in 2015 as per the Policy Manual, and I do not see a
>>>> Policy Manual provision for even-numbered years to make additional
>>>> principal payments.
>>>>
>>>> Tim in October said he believe he would be comfortable with a figure of
>>>> about $200,000, and that is the figure that comes to my mind as a*
>>>> total *for the two years, at a minimum, so that would be right around
>>>> Sam's initial bid of $150,000 (more precisely it would be $150,500).  That
>>>> would be the minimum I would like to see.
>>>>
>>>> I echo Joshua's concern of other projects we may wish to do, but *this
>>>> was already decided to be a priority* back when we got the mortgage,
>>>> and I do not like the way it seems we make promises and then... are like,
>>>> oh well.... *such and such.* That is what I see as happening so far
>>>> with the website, and if we made this priority, let's fulfill it first.  We
>>>> passed a Policy Manual provision to "pay off the office mortgage as quickly
>>>> as possible" so let's do it.  And set a fiscal example.  On a related note
>>>> on "let national be national" that keeps getting used... to borrow a phrase
>>>> that Joshua likes to use in other contexts, I don't find it helpful as it
>>>> is "content-less" :)  I don't think anyone wants to have national be other
>>>> than what it should be- it is what it should be that is precisely the
>>>> issue.  Slogans aren't helpful in planning.  I am of a view that the LNC is
>>>> too hands off in some things, and that there are things that we must have
>>>> as LNC level decisions and that is "national being national" and I have
>>>> made some of those things clear in the website discussion in which I think
>>>> we seriously abrogated some duty.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Nov 27, 2016 at 10:22 AM, Joshua Katz <
>>>> planning4liberty at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I don't have a number in mind, but my preference is to look at it from
>>>>> the other side first:  how much did we short ourselves last year?  We
>>>>> should obviously pay that much extra this year as a starting point.  (I'd
>>>>> say that even if doing so pushed our reserves down; we should tighten our
>>>>> belts in that circumstance.)  However, it seems that we can pay that much
>>>>> and more, so how much more?
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, here's one answer - imagine we, as an LNC, had absolutely no
>>>>> ideas.  We just couldn't think of a single thing we want to do beyond what
>>>>> we're already doing.  Then, obviously, we should pay as much as we can
>>>>> towards the mortgage, get down to bare subsistence, and hope that when it's
>>>>> paid off, that LNC is more creative than we are.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the other hand, we could believe that we have IDEAS, BIG IDEAS,
>>>>> LOTS OF IDEAS, and that it is vitally important that we act now, not those
>>>>> jerks who might be on the LNC in the future.  In that case, we should pay
>>>>> what we shorted ourselves last year and leave it at that.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think either of the two answers above is correct, but the
>>>>> point is, where along that spectrum are we?  Also, what pressing things are
>>>>> there that need to be done now?  I'd suggest this:  we just received record
>>>>> Presidential vote totals and saw a large spike in membership.  It would be
>>>>> appropriate to take action to retain the new members, and attempt to get
>>>>> more commitment from those voters.  Perhaps a survey of our new membership
>>>>> is in order so we have a better idea of why they joined and what they want.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> After all, wasn't enhanced cash flow one of the selling points that
>>>>> convinced a previous LNC to purchase a {noun deleted to avoid
>>>>> controversy}?  Isn't it also the case that, if we adhere strictly to the
>>>>> Wiener Rule, there will be no balloon payment due?  Granted, of course, any
>>>>> delay in payments changes the calculation, so we'd need to pay somewhat
>>>>> more than we were short last year to continue that rule.  Granted, too,
>>>>> that every additional payment will decrease overall money spent on interest.
>>>>>
>>>>> In 2017, I'd like to see us do more to help candidates coordinate and
>>>>> build ground-games.  I'm hoping to continue over the term to promote my
>>>>> proposals regarding appointments and "let national be national," both of
>>>>> which take money.  I'm sure others have ideas, which can either out-compete
>>>>> mine or be done simultaneously, that will also cost money.
>>>>>
>>>>> Even so, I'd like to pay substantially more than what we owe ourselves
>>>>> towards the mortgage.  I would also note, as I pointed out at the
>>>>> e-meeting, that this year's enhanced revenue hasn't been across the board.
>>>>> In fact, recurring gifts, last I checked, were below budget.  I'd encourage
>>>>> optimism, and I absolutely will not say "well, we'll never see a year like
>>>>> this again" but a lack of recurring gifts does raise the possibility of
>>>>> coming back down.  If I believed we'd never see such success again, and
>>>>> that we were just returning to normal, I'd say throw as much of it as
>>>>> possible at paying down the dead pledge.  If recurring gifts were up, I'd
>>>>> probably say the same thing.  I think, though, that what we do now will
>>>>> determine if we will continue on an upward trajectory, or instead return to
>>>>> 'normal,' and that this might be worth some investment.
>>>>>
>>>>> Before committing myself to a number, though, I'll want to hear from
>>>>> the Treasurer.  I might also favor making this decision after the budget is
>>>>> approved.
>>>>>
>>>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Nov 27, 2016 at 10:11 AM, Sam Goldstein <
>>>>> goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I intend to make a motion at our next meeting to spend a good portion
>>>>>> of our 2016 surplus to make a payment on the principal on our office
>>>>>> mortgage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not knowing our final numbers at this time lends some uncertainty to
>>>>>> that number, but I would like to start the bidding at $150,000.  That
>>>>>> amount ought to leave us in a very favorable position as to our ongoing
>>>>>> reserve for unforeseen expenses over the next few years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does anyone want to offer a lower/higher amount?  If so, what is your
>>>>>> reasoning.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks and
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Live Free,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sam Goldstein
>>>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>> Member at Large
>>>>>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>>>>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>>>>> 317-850-0726 Phone
>>>>>> 317-582-1773 Fax
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *In Liberty,*
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
>
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> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
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>
>

-- 
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
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