[Lnc-business] Enough pussyfooting. Time for a fearless platform.

Caryn Ann Harlos carynannharlos at gmail.com
Sun Jan 1 22:08:29 EST 2017


Ken, Bonnie Scott had an idea like that a while ago that I really like, she
called it I think an "accordion" approach.  And I love it.  And those extra
materials can be very nimble and updated.



-- 
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>


On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 8:07 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Trent,
>
> ==Our statement of principles is clear on our philosophy on governance.
> Our platform talks about how we will implement said philosophy. I hope that
> our platform will remain inclusive to all libertarian ideologies.  ==
>
> Said philosophy would necessarily entail elimination of public schools.
> That has always been the LP stance.  Public schools necessarily entail
> force and coercion.  Public schools nowhere fall within the pale of the
> Statement of Principles.  And nowhere fall within the pale of a "free
> market" in education.
>
> We don't craft our positions on the rights of the individuals by
> popularity contests.  My right not to be coerced into supporting public
> schools is the SoP position and by far one of the most consistent historic
> views of the LP.
>
> Our Statement of Principles sets the boundaries for the ideological tent
> as far as what the Party believes.  That doesn't mean people who differ or
> who would stop somewhere shy of that are not welcome along the road but
> that *does not mean that is the party position.*  The coercive system of
> public schools is not an Statement of Principles compliant doctrine any
> more than drug (not just pot) illegalization is.
>
>
>
> --
> *In Liberty,*
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 7:37 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Caryn Ann,
>>
>> I completely agree 100% regarding party materials.  I used to have some
>> old materials.  The stuff I had was from the early 90s and was showing its
>> age.  I stopped using it years ago because it looked old.  Given our recent
>> re-branding, it would probably be good to resurrect some of this material,
>> update it, and re-publish.
>>
>> Perhaps we should look at develops a 1/3rd page slick for each of the
>> platform planks.  This would make for good materials for outreach booths,
>> and the PDFs for these things could be linked from the platform page - each
>> plank linked to each 1/3rd page slick in PDF form.  That might provide a
>> balanced approach to avoid platform clutter, but also provide "more
>> information" for the planks in the platform.
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2017-01-01 21:07, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>
>> The Party needs much more material (not in the Platform but on our site
>> and educational materials) on why liberty is awesome and how it will
>> benefit and prosper society.
>>
>> One of the complaints about some of the older Platforms was not
>> positions, but how very LONG they were.  I have been through each and every
>> old Platform and a good deal of it was (questionable) assertions of
>> utilitarian outcomes that could not be nimble enough to keep up with
>> current arguments.
>>
>> Platforms should not be expected to do that.  Party releases and
>> educational materials can and should.
>>
>>
>> --
>> *In Liberty,*
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 7:04 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Arvin,
>>>
>>> I respect the heck out of you, and I agree with many points you have
>>> outlined below.  Because I've been negative enough for today, while
>>> ironically (and perhaps, hypocritically) preaching a message of positivity,
>>> I'm going to switch up and look to expand upon the things on which we agree.
>>>
>>> We do need to be bold with solutions.  We have big problems, and people
>>> want bold solutions.
>>>
>>> I'd personally like to focus on things like the DEA's recent
>>> reclassification of CBD, potentially in violation of federal law.  The DEA
>>> is taking medicine away from children.  We should be shouting about this
>>> from the rooftops.  And yes, we can push further; not repeal the stupid
>>> regulation, but end the DEA.  It's obvious they can't be trusted, nor are
>>> they working within their own mandate.  They're working against the will of
>>> the majority of Americans on a number of issues, and now they have the
>>> audacity to take medicine away from children? Ending the DEA will mean that
>>> people are more free, and that some government agency isn't dictating
>>> policy based upon the desires of special interest groups from 3000 miles
>>> away.
>>>
>>> I'd like to focus on things like Syria.  Especially since Johnson
>>> "flubbed" it, we need to show the world that Libertarians do, indeed,
>>> understand foreign policy. We don't want our country to be tinkering in the
>>> affairs of other nations, just like we don't want other nations tinkering
>>> with our internal affairs.  This should ring true to all anti-war
>>> activists, as well as these people who think Russia interfered with our
>>> elections. It's a simple concept; leave people alone and they leave you
>>> alone.
>>>
>>> I'd like to focus on massively downsizing the military.  Other
>>> countries spend their tax dollars on perks for their citizens while the
>>> American taxpayer is forced to pay the bill for defense of those other
>>> countries.  Ridiculous.  With $19T in debt, we simply cannot provide free
>>> defense for half the nations in the world.
>>>
>>> I'd like to see an update on Harry Browne's plan to phase out social
>>> security.  It was one of the things that hooked me into the party; a real
>>> workable solution.
>>>
>>> Let's talk about the banking system.  Let's talk about corporate
>>> bailouts.  Let's talk about HHS, the Fed.  Absolutely we need to talk about
>>> these things.
>>>
>>> And in doing all of that, we need to explain how things will be better
>>> if our ideas win the day.
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2017-01-01 20:43, Arvin Vohra wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all -
>>>
>>> Consider Trump's trajectory. He went from a person with unpopular
>>> positions to being the President. He even used some Libertarian positions
>>> to his advantage - particularly positions we've been too chicken to be very
>>> open about. For example, he argued vociferously against NATO, a position
>>> that wise Libertarians in the past have said is too hard line to present to
>>> the public.
>>>
>>> His unusual positions allowed him to dominate news cycles. He would say
>>> something offensive, and then let the news cover him. During that coverage,
>>> he had opportunities to convince people.
>>>
>>> Clinton, on the other hand, despite every possible advantage, lost the
>>> battle of ideas, largely because she did not present any for people to
>>> love, hate, or notice.
>>>
>>> Our job is to fight for our ideas. The first phase of that will always
>>> be resistance. The post that Ken mentions gives us plenty of data. The
>>> first: people are comparing private babysitter rates to public school
>>> rates. In other words, they haven't imagined the price of large group
>>> babysitting for kids who an already walk and talk and dress ourselves.
>>>
>>> It also shows us that people have inaccurate ideas about what degrees
>>> confer, and what substitutes exist. This lets us refine our message. It
>>> lets us understand what people need to hear to change their views.
>>>
>>> The key point is, if we are not meeting resistance, it just means we're
>>> being ignored. But if people start debates, we can inform, challenge, and
>>> persuade.
>>>
>>> Our platform isn't inviting a debate we can win. It's inviting no debate
>>> at all.
>>>
>>> The one thing Libertarians are good at: arguing. Even at convincing,
>>> despite stereotypes to the contrary.
>>>
>>> Let's argue with people about eliminating public schools. Or massively
>>> downsizing the miltary. Or leaving NATO. Or shutting down HHS. Hell, or
>>> even Ending the Fed. Let's advocate the right positions, even the currently
>>> unpopular ones, to make them popular.
>>>
>>> I know many Libertarians are hoping to use a kind of "slowly boil the
>>> frog" tactic. That works when you have the military industrial complex,
>>> teachers unions, and federal worker unions on your side. It doesn't work as
>>> well when your opponent in the one with the resources.
>>>
>>> When we are too soft, we end up confusing people about our basics. The
>>> fact that people are surprised that Libertarians want to end public schools
>>> indicates that our platform is not working. The fact that many don't know
>>> that we oppose welfare, they are equally surprised and angered by that,
>>> shows that our platform is not doing its job.
>>>
>>> Our platform must be clear, comprehensible, and, when necessary,
>>> controversial. Let's write a platform that can dominate some news cycles,
>>> that will invite discussion and debate, and will, at the very least,
>>> accurately educate people about the LIbertarian message.
>>>
>>> -Arvin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 8:14 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I read the Facebook page daily. And without commenting on that post, we
>>>> have similar comments to ALL posts.  There are also positive comments on
>>>> that post that you seem to be ignoring (again, I'm not choosing to argue
>>>> about that post but about how FB goes in general - I spend hours and hours
>>>> a week on the national FB page - I tend to think I know what I am talking
>>>> about.).
>>>>
>>>> And yes, I still think rabbit trailing this discussion is inappropriate.
>>>>
>>>> *No is advocating being offensive in the platform.* That is a red
>>>> herring and I think incredibly disrespectful to the intent of the email
>>>> chain starter when you can easily start your own on this particular topic.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 6:08 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not different at all.  Wording matters.  Words matter.  I chose
>>>>> to focus on this Facebook post because it makes my point.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our platform can have the same effect.  The words we choose really do
>>>>> matter.  That's my entire point.  I have no issue with being consistent,
>>>>> even bold, in our platform.  What I do worry about is HOW it is conveyed.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is a thing within the broader libertarian circles on trying to
>>>>> "out-libertarian" other libertarians, and often this turns into a "I'm such
>>>>> a libertarian, I think we should ______" where the process of filling in
>>>>> the blank spirals downward into the realm of the most ridiculous and most
>>>>> offensive way of saying things.  I call this the "libertarian dick-size
>>>>> contest".  It is extremely counter-productive. It drives away potential
>>>>> future members - people who only need a little coaching to see the light -
>>>>> because someone wanted to prove how hardcore they are.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not saying that this was the impetus behind the particular
>>>>> Facebook post.  In fact, I don't really think it was, in this case. But it
>>>>> can be.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I strongly encourage everyone to go read the comments on this Facebook
>>>>> post, on our official Facebook page, and see how words really do matter.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.facebook.com/libertarians/posts/10154865568037726
>>>>>
>>>>> Some highlights in reaction simply in labeling public school teachers
>>>>> "babysitters" prove my point.  That one idea - that one concept - of
>>>>> calling them "babysitters" has elicited some pretty legitimate backlash.
>>>>> Here are some highlights:
>>>>>
>>>>> *"This has to be communicated in a less confrontational way. I taught
>>>>> with some excellent teachers who did everything they could to help their
>>>>> students succeed. I also taught with some lazy incompetents. The post reads
>>>>> as though teachers are universally bad, which isn't the case."*
>>>>>
>>>>> *"I'm a Libertarian, and a public school teacher. You just spit on
>>>>> every hard working teacher like me."*
>>>>>
>>>>> *"To label the teacher as a babysitter is a crushing disservice. The
>>>>> problem is that the system is trying to turn our teachers into babysitters.
>>>>> Privatizing education is a big and interesting idea, but I agree with the
>>>>> statement that it should be communicated more effectively and not at the
>>>>> insult of dedicated and hardworking educators."*
>>>>>
>>>>> Words matter.  One word, one concept, has unnecessarily elicited a ton
>>>>> of negative feedback.  And again, that's my point.
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>>
>>>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>>>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2017-01-01 19:47, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that is a different subject than this thread or the thread
>>>>> starter's intention so I will not rabbit trail this one.  You might wish to
>>>>> start another discussion out of respect for the discussion at hand.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 5:45 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How we frame discussions and the words we use do actually matter.
>>>>>> And beyond that, it does a significant disservice to our party and our
>>>>>> platform to be jerks to people by broadly classifying them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll again point out that there are public school teachers who could
>>>>>> become Libertarians.  If we push them away by attacking them, rather than
>>>>>> the broader system, then they won't.  Because someone decided we needed to
>>>>>> call public school teachers "babysitters" yet again, I'd like to reiterate
>>>>>> my point by directly quoting the words of a commenter on the post...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *As a public school teacher, I don't particularly care for the
>>>>>> current public education system. As a concept, I'm not sure how I feel
>>>>>> about public education. However, to suggest that we public school educators
>>>>>> are incompetent is not only false, it's fucking insulting. I'd be willing
>>>>>> to bet that most of the people who trash us, including the party's vice
>>>>>> chair, haven't been in a K-12 classroom since they graduated high school.
>>>>>> Basically what I'm trying to say is that until you have some experience in
>>>>>> the modern classroom - and I mean actually observing it instead of picking
>>>>>> up your kids on the curb or walking into the office to pick them up - you
>>>>>> should probably take your criticism of educators and shove it into the
>>>>>> deepest part of your ass.*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This person, assuming they're writing in good faith, is a public
>>>>>> school teacher like some of the ones I know.  They don't like the current
>>>>>> state of public education.  They're open to new ideas.  But, we decided to
>>>>>> denigrate them and call them "babysitters".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are people out there being actively repulsed because of what is
>>>>>> being said in the name of the party.  Maybe someone really does hate public
>>>>>> school teachers.  Okay.  But is that the message we want to convey as a
>>>>>> party?  The Libertarian Party has no respect public school teachers?
>>>>>> Because that's what the post says, and the reaction quoted above is the
>>>>>> result.  A potential member, a potential new libertarian, has been repulsed
>>>>>> because someone has decided that "public school teachers" are just
>>>>>> "babysitters".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not making this idea up. And this is not the only instance. This
>>>>>> is just the most-recent example of the broader problem.  The words we
>>>>>> choose to use do, in fact, matter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>>>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>>>>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2017-01-01 18:27, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And that is done through explaining our Platform not by watering it
>>>>>> down or turning the core document into the Libertarian equivalent of
>>>>>> seeker-sensitive churches.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Being seeker sensitive is indeed our job - as individual
>>>>>> communicators - in varying tailored situations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But for that to work, the foundation must be clear solid and
>>>>>> unabashedly clear.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One can build many different kinds of buildings for different
>>>>>> purposes for different peoples and uses - but it is all for naught without
>>>>>> a solid foundation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 4:22 PM Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think we should ever advocate anything against our
>>>>>>> principles. However, I also think there's value in paying attention to how
>>>>>>> things are packaged.  "Marketing" is a thing, because it has value.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's not always what you say, but how you say it, that matters.
>>>>>>> Half of the time, in politics, there's a fight over the language in the
>>>>>>> debate because language helps set the context, which can and does
>>>>>>> effect the outcome of the policy issue.  A great example of this is
>>>>>>> "illegal immigrant" versus "undocumented worker".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Another example:  A recent Facebook post by the LP Facebook Page
>>>>>>> called teachers "babysitters".  As one who has worked with some school
>>>>>>> public teachers on the Common Core issue, this didn't sit well with me at
>>>>>>> all.  There are good teachers out there; teachers we can help see the light
>>>>>>> and flip to our side. But when our official party social media outlet
>>>>>>> denigrates all teachers (and ironically, falling into a collectivist trap
>>>>>>> by calling all public school teachers "babysitters") it turns people away.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The goal of the Libertarian Party is, in part, to spread
>>>>>>> libertarianism and convert more people to it.  We can't do that if we're
>>>>>>> actively pushing people away, whether intentionally or unintentionally.  We
>>>>>>> must consider our words carefully.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My favorite "libertarian" platform of all time was the Boston Tea
>>>>>>> Party's platform. It was simple and to the point.  "We support
>>>>>>> reducing the size, scope and power of government at all levels and on all
>>>>>>> issues, and oppose increasing the size, scope and power of government at
>>>>>>> any level, for any purpose."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Even this "extreme" platform from the former BTP is acceptable to
>>>>>>> people who work for government.  Everyone in government knows there's bloat
>>>>>>> and waste.  From the local level, where land swap deals and favoritism
>>>>>>> reign supreme; to the state level, where bureaucracy exists primarily to
>>>>>>> perpetuate itself; to the Federal level, where the elected officials engage
>>>>>>> in a show for the people while the bureaucracy runs the show.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We must espouse our philosophy in a way that helps people see the
>>>>>>> light.  Not all people come to the LP overnight.  The ones I call "the
>>>>>>> light switchers" -- the ones that woke up one day, the light went on, and
>>>>>>> they realized they were libertarians -- are a good-sized chunk of our
>>>>>>> membership.  And that's fine.  But for the other people -- the ones who,
>>>>>>> like me, spent years of soul searching and rectifying core beliefs into
>>>>>>> logical consistency -- we need to help the on that journey. We need to
>>>>>>> bring them along.  They will come.  I've switched a number of people in my
>>>>>>> life using this method.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's my $0.02.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>>>>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>>>>>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2017-01-01 16:19, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Attached is David Nolan's Condensed Version from 1977.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But in more serious tones, I echo everything Arvin said.  Hiding the
>>>>>>> ball doesn't fool those those hate our ball - hidden or not -  and only
>>>>>>> frustrates though that are just dying to find it.  I am not ashamed of what
>>>>>>> we believe and drastic societal/economic/political change is accomplished
>>>>>>> by clear bold principled stands.  No one goes to the metaphorical stocks
>>>>>>> for an uninspiring lawyered-up vision.  We favour the complete and utter
>>>>>>> separate of _______ and state. (you can put nearly anything in there - and
>>>>>>> certainly with Arvin's position -  education and state).    I personally
>>>>>>> love what CO did - set forth clear principled stands but made it clear that
>>>>>>> we would support any true step to liberty (i.e. we are not "all or nothing"
>>>>>>> - we will take what we can get and then continue to press for the prize):
>>>>>>> From CO:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Implementation*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We support any measure that actually reduces, and does not replace,
>>>>>>>  illegitimate governmental action or violations of the rights of the
>>>>>>> individual as put forth in our Preamble and Statement of Principles. While
>>>>>>> recognizing that change often takes the form of increments and transitions,
>>>>>>> the policies in the planks that follow are to be taken as quickly as
>>>>>>> possible. (the "and does not replace" is a recommendation of this year's
>>>>>>> LPCO Platform committee).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For every somewhat committed person we think we are gaining  by
>>>>>>> disguising our principled positions (and I believe the next two years will
>>>>>>> show that is not the case) I hear form multiple "all in" people who say
>>>>>>> this is the last chance they are giving the LP. They have had it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In any event, head counting and popularity tests fail when it comes
>>>>>>> to an ideological movement.   Principles. Clear principles are the only
>>>>>>> thing that is sure.  Our founders knew that which is why they implanted the
>>>>>>> Statement of Principles with a depth charge, and I thank them for it.  If
>>>>>>> the Party itself balks at stating what we believe we can't expect anyone
>>>>>>> else to buy what we are saying.  The storekeep must be willing to sample
>>>>>>> his own wares.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 2:05 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am now in favour of Sam's suggestion since Bittner opposes it.
>>>>>>>  #NeverBittner
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While I am a fan of that, I like a bit more specificity.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The State: Boo, hiss
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Was floated in a group I belong to.  We opted for something more
>>>>>>> detailed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David Nolan's abbreviated platform was quite nice.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 1:53 PM, Sam Goldstein <
>>>>>>> goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I will suggested my 2004 platform revision that I presented
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> at the Platform Committee meeting prior to the Atlanta
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Convention:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Replace the entire platform with two sentences:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We don't like government.  Let's get rid of it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sam Goldstein
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Member at Large
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 317-850-0726 <(317)%20850-0726> Phone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 317-582-1773 <(317)%20582-1773> Fax
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> AMEN!!'
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I make the same commitment as Arvin.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 1:36 PM Whitney Bilyeu <whitneycb76 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Agreed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Arvin Vohra <votevohra at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If 2016 showed us one thing, it's that timid positions are neither
>>>>>>> necessary nor effective in current politics.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Our current platform is designed to technically be accurate, while
>>>>>>> not scaring anyone too badly. This is a losing proposition. A clear,
>>>>>>> inspiring, and immediately comprehensible platform is far better than the
>>>>>>> fine-print pretending to be marketing we have now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Take the education plank, for example:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Education is best provided by the free market, achieving greater
>>>>>>> quality, accountability and efficiency with more diversity of choice.
>>>>>>> Recognizing that the education of children is a parental responsibility, we
>>>>>>> would restore authority to parents to determine the education of their
>>>>>>> children, without interference from government. Parents should have control
>>>>>>> of and responsibility for all funds expended for their children's education.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What it means: Eliminate all public schools. Let people choose
>>>>>>> between free, world-class, online offerings, homeschooling, and private
>>>>>>> education in any form.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Intransigent supporters of public schools won't be fooled by the
>>>>>>> current obfuscation. Opponents and potential opponents won't be inspired.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Our job is to convince people of our positions, not to mask our
>>>>>>> positions and pander. In order for people to be able to be convinced of our
>>>>>>> positions, they first must understand what the position is.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I intend to support people for platform committee who will commit to
>>>>>>> an honest, comprehensible, fearless platform.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In Liberty,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Arvin Vohra
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Vice Chair
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Arvin Vohra
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> www.VoteVohra.com
>>>>>>> VoteVohra at gmail.com
>>>>>>> (301) 320-3634
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Arvin Vohra
>>>
>>> www.VoteVohra.com
>>> VoteVohra at gmail.com
>>> (301) 320-3634
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *In Liberty,*
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *In Liberty,*
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
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