[Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2017-11: Military Members

Larry Sharpe lsharpe at neo-sage.com
Sat May 20 11:09:31 EDT 2017


Thank you Caryn Ann.

You are correct. Please ignore my earlier concerns. I support the motion
without reservation.

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 10:22 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com
> wrote:

> This is the action that Region 1 supports through the Chairs and the
> majority of members now have opposed other action at last through informal
> communication - certainly 2/3 don't want it and that is how I represent
> Region 1.   I firmly believe that my spending hundreds of personal dollars
> and dozens of hours polling delegates by mail will yield the same result.
> This is the prerogative of the delegates. Just waiting for a few Chairs
> about wording.  Arvin apologized.  I'm not going to argue on this list
> whether his apology was sufficient.  It was asked for and given and
> personally I refuse to go down the road of not accepting apologies.  It
> begins to seem (and it is sad that I have to worry that my words will be
> used by ***someone somewhere*** to whip up a FB lynch mob, so let me
> restate it begins to ****seem*** like a pound of flesh is required.
> Appearance and optics are important as we all agree.). If we want a policy
> manual or Bylaw to police LNC members to that extent, propose it.  If we
> want to say LNC members are never off the clock, propose it. I agree with
> Joshua that this is not what the Bylaw anticipates and we have nearly all
> spoken out individually.   Including the Party Chair chosen by the
> delegates.  Strongly so.
>
> This is already creating a culture of fear of what can and cannot be said
> and that is death to liberty and the road to creating a much different
> Party than most signed up for.  It is easy when the target is one most
> disagree with- the next one will be less- and less.  That is the way purges
> work, they don't start that way.  They start with the best intentions and
> great people.  History shows this over and over.
>
> **Arvin should not have said that.  We said that multiple times on this
> list.  Nearly everyone has.  I certainly have.  I personally asked for the
> given apology.**
>
> Are we really going down this road Larry?  Because I am hearing from
> members who say things you have said have now made *them* feel unwelcome
> and empathy demands that I hear them and understand where they are coming
> from.  That sentiment is building.  That you have decided what level of
> anti-war and other views are acceptable and that if someone is too
> "radical" - no Libertarian Party for you- despite the fact that we were
> founded by people who said many of these same things whether we agree or
> not. If we're going to go down this road of Facebook censoring that kind of
> hype and destructive factionalism is exactly where it leads.  I told you in
> fact that something you said made me and others feel very censored- we
> talked about it. Others have since expressed that.  We decided you be you,
> and I be me.
>
> The resolution actually DOES say we don't agree by first, acknowledging
> the good and noble intentions, and placing blame on the state, where it
> belongs.  It actually does say we understand, you are valued and welcomed.
>
> It has received strong support from members.  I'm awaiting final word from
> my chairs.  Barring a majority objection (and the one objection I received
> only had to do with the use of the word "corrupted" not anything at concern
> here), this will have my yes vote.  Seeing how the majority of my region
> chairs opposed me even sponsoring the other motion (when that doesn't
> indicate agreement), I doubt the result would change when I ask about a
> vote.  And enough LNC members have said no already that it would not pass,
>  which means to me that something else is intended to be said by an
> obviously doomed motion, - what I don't know other than I want no part in
> that and do not care to speculate or wonder.  I'm in this because I believe
> in our ideals and try to steer clear of everything else.
>
> I am committed to speak a bold, radical, positive and empowering message
> for liberty. And I'm ready to get back to doing that.
>
> -Caryn Ann
>
>
> On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 7:20 AM Ken Moellman <lpky at mu-net.org> wrote:
>
>> R3 Alternate - I vote yes.
>>
>> Larry - I understand your concern, but this action is easy, it's
>> agreeable, it's specifically on platform, and I think it should be done.
>> If further action is to be pursued by this body, this won't contradict that
>> action.
>>
>> ken
>>
>> On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 9:10 AM, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes
>>>
>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 6:58 AM, Sam Goldstein <
>>> goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I vote Yes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sam Goldstein
>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>> Member at Large
>>>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>>> 317-850-0726 <(317)%20850-0726> Phone
>>>> 317-582-1773 <(317)%20582-1773> Fax
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 7:23 AM, Larry Sharpe <lsharpe at neo-sage.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> My worry is where is:
>>>>>
>>>>>    - We're sorry for the insult or,
>>>>>    - You are NOT all murderers or,
>>>>>    - Arvin shouldn't have said that or,
>>>>>    - We don't agree with Arvin or,
>>>>>    - Anything about the actual incident?
>>>>>
>>>>> While it is nice (Thank you, Daniel), I read this as:
>>>>>
>>>>> "We really want you guys in the party, please don't go. But you're
>>>>> still all murderers and Arvin is exactly what we want in leadership."
>>>>>
>>>>> Is the the end of our action/response?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 6:45 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Awaiting further input from my chairs - as it is over the weekend.
>>>>>> My vote will likely be during the week.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 2:51 AM Patrick McKnight <
>>>>>> patrick.joseph.mcknight at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Patrick McKnight
>>>>>>> Region 8 Rep
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 20, 2017 4:24 AM, "Alicia Mattson" <agmattson at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I vote yes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Alicia
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 1:01 AM, Alicia Mattson <
>>>>>>>> agmattson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We have an electronic mail ballot.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by May 30, 2017 at
>>>>>>>>> 11:59:59pm Pacific time.*
>>>>>>>>> *Sponsor:*  Hayes, Hewitt, Hagan, Mattson
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Motion:*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Whereas, We support the maintenance of a sufficient military to
>>>>>>>>> defend the United States against aggression and believe that the United
>>>>>>>>> States should both avoid entangling alliances and abandon its attempts to
>>>>>>>>> act as policeman for the world;
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Whereas, We oppose any form of compulsory national service and
>>>>>>>>> recognize that many members of the military
>>>>>>>>> were unjustly conscripted in the past;
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Whereas, Most voluntary members of the military joined with the
>>>>>>>>> idea and/or goal of defending the United States
>>>>>>>>> and, thereby, their property, families, and friends;
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Whereas, The United States Military-Industrial-Complex has used
>>>>>>>>> many well-meaning military service members for
>>>>>>>>> purposes other than defense against aggression and further
>>>>>>>>> involved them in foreign entanglements during attempts
>>>>>>>>> to act as the world’s policeman; and
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Whereas, Many current and former military service members are able
>>>>>>>>> to relate, identify, and speak out on the ways
>>>>>>>>> in which the United States military mission has been expanded and
>>>>>>>>> corrupted beyond a legitimate role of defense
>>>>>>>>> against aggression; now, therefore, be it;
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Resolved, Present and former members of the military who give such
>>>>>>>>> unique and powerful voice to the libertarian
>>>>>>>>> principles of peace and the non-initiation of force add great
>>>>>>>>> value to the Libertarian Party, and are welcomed as a
>>>>>>>>> vital part of our membership.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Alicia
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>>> *We defend your rights*
>>>>>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>>>>> *Taxation is theft*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Larry
>>>>>
>>>>> *Larry Sharpe*
>>>>>
>>>>> *The Neo-Sage Group, Inc.*
>>>>>
>>>>> http://TheNeoSage.com/ <http://theneosage.com/>
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/TheNeoSageGroup>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/user/TheNeoSage
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/neosage
>>>>>
>>>>> *https://www.facebook.com/neosage <https://www.facebook.com/neosage>*
>>>>>
>>>>> *212-307-3545 <212-307-3545>*
>>>>>   *Instructing – Advancing – Inspiring*
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
> --
> *In Liberty,*
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>
> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> *We defend your rights*
> *And oppose the use of force*
> *Taxation is theft*
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>
>


-- 

Larry

*Larry Sharpe*

*The Neo-Sage Group, Inc.*

http://TheNeoSage.com/ <http://theneosage.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/TheNeoSageGroup>

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheNeoSage

http://www.linkedin.com/in/neosage

*https://www.facebook.com/neosage <https://www.facebook.com/neosage>*

*212-307-3545 <212-307-3545>*
  *Instructing – Advancing – Inspiring*
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