[Lnc-business] Lnc-business Digest, Vol 63, Issue 86
Erin Adams
erinadams at thefeldmanfoundation.org
Fri Jul 14 18:41:44 EDT 2017
I realize I am new and only an alternate but I agree that we have a
fiduciary duty to be good stewards of the memberships money. I would
support an Air BnB option as well
In Liberty,
Erin Adams
Director of Fundraising and Events
The Feldman Foundation
(405) 780-2791
On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 12:50 AM, <lnc-business-request at hq.lp.org> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Re: LNC Meeting Costs (Starchild)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 22:49:20 -0800
> From: Starchild <sfdreamer at earthlink.net>
> To: Libertarian National Committee list <lnc-business at hq.lp.org>,
> Wes
> Benedict <wes.benedict at lp.org>
> Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] LNC Meeting Costs
> Message-ID: <F05062EB-80E4-4994-A4DA-D0E2042B94A3 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
>
> Thank you Wes, the spreadsheet is very helpful! I was afraid that
> when I did finally receive information on this, it might be incomplete,
> expenses lumped together in broad catch-all categories, difficult to read,
> or otherwise requiring more follow-up, but this chart looks pretty clean
> and straightforward for the time period covered (2011 to 2014), although it
> does appear that a couple meetings which took place in 2013 are not
> included, as only one meeting is listed for that year. Nevertheless, this
> is substantially what I was looking for. It does raise a question in my
> mind though of why Robert couldn't have sent me this document when I first
> asked him about meeting expense data, since it is several years old and not
> I presume something that was just created recently. But I won't dwell on
> that at this point.
>
> More of interest, the total per meeting costs are higher than I
> had been led to believe. The average cost of an LNC meeting is listed as
> $4,844, whereas the number Robert previously mentioned to me was $2,500 per
> meeting. Admittedly, he may not have been including some elements of the
> total cost, such as staff travel, in that lower figure. But not having any
> better data, I subsequently cited the $2500 number repeatedly as an overall
> per meeting cost estimate, I'm pretty sure both in meetings and via email,
> without him or anybody else correcting me (I do have a vague recollection
> of at least one person telling me in conversation not during a meeting that
> they thought the cost was higher, but that might have been somebody not on
> the LNC). It appears that either the rest of the LNC has been as ignorant
> as myself of the real costs, or the misinformation of that incorrect lower
> number was simply allowed to go unchallenged.
>
> I am glad to hear you say that staff has no requirement for
> expensive meetings. I've repeatedly gotten the sense that Robert prefers
> them, although I don't recall that he's ever said so in so many words. My
> own view more than ever is that there is definite room for savings in these
> numbers, both on the LNC side (pay for our own food and beverages, meet in
> less posh venues than hotel conference rooms), and on the staff side (it
> seems to me that we shouldn't need to take more than one staff member, at
> most, away from the Alexandria office to fly them to a meeting and put them
> up in a hotel for the weekend, when the LNC can always have a staff member
> call in to the meeting if needed, as we often do with our attorney, our FEC
> consultant, and other individuals. Even if we paid a staff member two day's
> wages just to be "on call" for the weekend for when we might want to reach
> them by phone, the cost to the party would be considerably less than flying
> the person across the country and paying for a hotel room.
>
> Also glad to hear you say that there's nothing particularly secret
> about the venue meeting contracts, although it's really more the cost data
> than the contracts that I'm after with regard to meeting room contracts. A
> hotel's "request" for "confidentiality" certainly doesn't sound like a
> legally binding condition of secrecy imposed upon us however (if they're
> demanding secrecy as a contract clause, we should be informed of that
> before signing, but that seems unlikely, and I think our standard
> negotiating position should be "we don't do secrecy"). In any case,
> contracts have sometimes been sent out to this public email list or
> disclosed during regular LNC meetings that are open to the public, so
> shouldn't normally require any kind of written contract to pass along. If a
> majority of the LNC feels a particular contract, or parts of it, should be
> kept secret, as with the 2016 contract with the Johnson/Weld campaign has
> been (until this September, if I recall correctly), it seems to me we can
> address that on a case-by-case basis. I do appreciate you sending the
> contracts (which I have yet to review) for our two upcoming meetings.
>
> Regarding other past meeting room costs (from 2014-2017) I'm not
> in a particular rush to see that data, although I would like to see it at
> some point in the next few months. Going further back, I'd also like to
> know if there are records of free meeting spaces that have been used for
> LNC meetings, and if so where they were. Of course originally there was
> David Nolan's living room, and if it was good enough for our founders,
> well! But even after the LNC got started and had like 25 people showing up
> to meetings, I'll bet they sometimes met in spaces they didn't pay for.
> Going forward, the important thing to me is that we see prior to each
> meeting the estimated costs for various proposed sites, broken down as they
> are in the spreadsheet, before we make any final decision on where to meet.
>
> Love & Liberty,
>
> ((( starchild )))
> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
> RealReform at earthlink.net
> (415) 625-FREE
> @StarchildSF
>
> P.S. ? Someone gave me an excellent suggestion recently, which is that we
> look into renting a whole house on AirBnB or another homesharing service
> for LNC meetings. In Kansas City, for instance, we could have rented this
> place, which I found in just a few minutes:
>
>
>
> https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/19641293?location=Kansas%
> 20City&check_in=2017-08-19&check_out=2017-08-20&s=UkpxykRA
>
> At $419 per night and 8 beds, we could have 8 people sleeping there at the
> affordable price of around $50 per person, and it would basically cover the
> meeting space with a cost of $0 to the LP. Now it does say "no
> parties/events" but I suspect if we'd told them what we had in mind, they'd
> be fine with it. I think we should look for options like this before
> spending thousands to be at a hotel.
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 13, 2017, at 1:51 PM, Wes Benedict wrote:
>
> > Starchild,
> >
> > If I thought this information would be useful for an upcoming decision,
> I'd make sure we bumped other things back and moved this forward.
> >
> > Robert has kept a spreadsheet detailing the LNC meeting costs. It's
> significantly out of date and will take time to update.
> >
> > If I get a sense from a significant number on the LNC that it is
> important enough for us to stop other work and get that spreadsheet
> updated, we could certainly do that.
> >
> > Or, if the LNC would be satisfied to get a list of meetings from the
> past just to get a sense of the costs, Robert has provided that and it's
> attached.
> >
> > I don't personally see much coming from providing that information
> urgently, but again, we could certainly get it done if it was a top
> priority.
> >
> > In general, staff has usually included in our suggestions and research
> low-cost options like Oklahoma and Alexandria, and the LNC has chosen
> places that were not the lowest cost options staff has provided. I point
> that out, because I want to make it clear that, if the costs of LNC
> meetings is your concern, I don't want our membership or the LNC to think
> that staff requires expensive meetings. We go with the flow of the LNC. Of
> the 5 to 10 times I've suggested a specific location for an LNC meeting, I
> don't think the LNC has taken my suggestion. I don't mind. I've thought
> most of the places we've had meetings were reasonably decided.
> >
> > I think Robert has shown many of the contracts to you in person when
> you've visited LPHQ.
> >
> > I believe Robert has offered to email all the contracts to you if you
> sign the standard Non-Disclosure Agreement. I believe you have so far
> chosen not to sign the non-disclosure agreement for certain reasons that
> you're in a better situation to explain than me. It's not a big deal to me
> personally, just has been our practice related to contracts.
> >
> > I don't think there's anything especially interesting or "secret" in any
> of the contracts we've had with hotels to have LNC meetings. Payments to
> hotels can be found in detail on the FEC website.
> >
> > I think sometimes vendors offer "discounts" and sometimes put in their
> contracts terms requesting confidentiality, but I'm not going to go through
> and dig up a bunch of contracts to see for myself unless I get a sense from
> the LNC that that is what they want staff to spend time on.
> >
> > If the LNC could pass a motion requesting staff to provide all the LNC
> meeting contracts to Starchild and other LNC members without requiring an
> NDA, I'd feel more comfortable stopping other work and doing that, and not
> requiring an NDA.
> >
> > We did not find the word "Confidential" in the upcoming LNC meeting in
> Kansas City and New Orleans. Those contract are attached.
> >
> >
> > Wes Benedict, Executive Director
> > Libertarian National Committee, Inc.
> > 1444 Duke St., Alexandria, VA 22314
> > (202) 333-0008 ext. 232, wes.benedict at lp.org
> > facebook.com/libertarians @LPNational
> > Join the Libertarian Party at: http://lp.org/membership
> >
> > On 7/13/2017 10:03 AM, Aaron Starr wrote:
> >> "Do you agree with Alicia and I that the LNC should be provided with
> data on
> >> our meeting costs as I've been requesting? Going forward, I would like
> to
> >> see those costs disclosed upfront, before a meeting site is selected,
> and I
> >> would also like to see the our past costs for each meeting this term,
> within
> >> some reasonable frame of time."
> >>
> >> While I am not personally fixated on the costs of meetings, I do believe
> >> that it is perfectly reasonable for a member of this committee to
> request
> >> past data on our meeting costs and copies of contracts. That
> information was
> >> requested on June 6 and should have been provided by now.
> >>
> >>
> >> Aaron Starr
> >> (805) 583-3308 Home
> >> (805) 404-8693 Mobile
> >> starrcpa at gmail.com
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] On Behalf Of
> >> Starchild
> >> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2017 1:22 AM
> >> To: Nick Sarwark
> >> Cc: Libertarian National Committee list
> >> Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] The Libertarian Party only has 2 full-time
> >> staffers?!
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks Nick. So I guess the question remains, who is answering the
> >> phones and handling routine office tasks? Austin Petersen says that
> during
> >> his time in the office, he developed a strong intern program. If so, I'm
> >> wondering what happened to that program. Do we have any written records
> of
> >> it, and if so, can those records be sent to the LNC?
> >>
> >> My understanding - correct me if I'm wrong - is that we don't
> >> currently have any interns, but if we have names and contact info of
> past
> >> interns, I'd volunteer to call them and ask about their experience
> working
> >> as interns for the LP. That could help us rebuild a program and start
> >> getting more bodies in the office getting stuff done, including routine
> >> tasks.
> >>
> >> Do you agree with Alicia and I that the LNC should be provided with
> >> data on our meeting costs as I've been requesting? Going forward, I
> would
> >> like to see those costs disclosed upfront, before a meeting site is
> >> selected, and I would also like to see the our past costs for each
> meeting
> >> this term, within some reasonable frame of time. Do you have any
> objection
> >> to this, and if not, what time frames seem reasonable to you?
> >>
> >> Love & Liberty,
> >>
> >> ((( starchild ))) At-Large
> >> Representative, Libertarian National Committee
> >> RealReform at earthlink.net
> >> (415) 625-FREE
> >> @StarchildSF
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jul 12, 2017, at 9:08 PM, Nicholas Sarwark wrote:
> >>
> >>> Starchild,
> >>>
> >>> At present, the LNC has Wes Benedict, Eric Dixon, and Robert Kraus
> >>> full-time and based out of the Alexandria office. My understanding is
> >>> that Nick Dunbar and Mat Thexton are also based out of that office,
> >>> though not full-time. We also have a number of contractors working
> >>> remotely, including Andy Burns, Lauren Daugherty, Jess Mears, Denise
> >>> Luckey, Bob Johnston, and Elizabeth Brierly.
> >>>
> >>> Wes and I are in the midst of interviewing candidates for Press
> >>> Secretary, which is anticipated to be full-time, and will be moving on
> >>> to interviewing candidates for a Candidate Support Specialist shortly.
> >>>
> >>> Yours in liberty,
> >>> Nick
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 8:05 PM, Starchild <sfdreamer at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> >>>> Thank you, Alicia. Coupled with the Convention Oversight Committee
> >>>> experience you mention, this does raise questions. But beyond the
> >>>> issue of getting the requested information, I was honestly shocked to
> >>>> hear that only Wes and Robert are usually in the office full time. If
> >>>> their time is valuable enough to justify what we're paying them,
> >>>> surely we should not be having them routinely spend that time on
> >>>> tasks that lower-paid staffers, or volunteers, could be handling.
> >>>>
> >>>> I would like to hear what Nick Sarwark as chair thinks about both the
> >>>> data request compliance and how staff hours are apparently being
> >> allocated.
> >>>> Love & Liberty,
> >>>>
> >>>> ((( starchild ))) At-Large
> >>>> Representative, Libertarian National Committee
> >>>> RealReform at earthlink.net
> >>>> (415) 625-FREE
> >>>> @StarchildSF
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Jun 7, 2017, at 3:02 PM, Alicia Mattson wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Starchild,
> >>>>
> >>>> I have a lot of disagreements with your other ideas about how we
> >>>> should find meeting locations and what arrangements are workable.
> >>>>
> >>>> However, I do agree with you that it should not take so long to
> >>>> provide the LNC with basic data about the routine costs of our
> >>>> meetings, and provide copies of the meeting space contracts showing
> >>>> which of those expenses are required performance. You've been asking
> >>>> for some time, and it's not that large of a data request.
> >>>>
> >>>> Recently, the Convention Oversight Committee was not in agreement
> >>>> about whether to again use an outside professional to assist with the
> >>>> 2020 site search, or whether to do it in-house with Robert Kraus as
> the
> >> point person.
> >>>> When the issue of asking a staff member to take on such a
> >>>> time-consuming job was discussed, the COC was told that when Wes
> >>>> tells the LNC that staff is overloaded, that characterization does
> >>>> not necessarily include Robert Kraus, and he was willing and able to
> >>>> add such a large project to his plate. If that's the case, then I
> >>>> don't see why there isn't time to fulfill this data request of yours
> in a
> >> more timely manner.
> >>>> -Alicia
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 4:34 PM, Starchild <sfdreamer at earthlink.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Maybe I just haven't been paying attention. That's what LP
> >>>>> operations manager Robert Kraus suggested when I spoke with him
> >>>>> today and expressed surprise at his statement that he and Wes
> >>>>> Benedict are the only paid staff working full time at our office. He
> >>>>> said that if I'd read the report Wes presented at the last LNC
> meeting,
> >> I would have been aware of the situation.
> >>>>> Robert told me this by way of explaining why he has not yet sent the
> >>>>> LNC the details of how much we are paying for hotel meeting space,
> >>>>> food and beverage obligations, staff airline flights, shipping
> >>>>> costs, etc., in connection with LNC meetings. At the last LNC
> >>>>> meeting in Pittsburgh in April, he told me in response to my asking
> >>>>> him for this information that he would send it within a week or so.
> >>>>> When I spoke with him today, he said that if I wanted him to stop
> >>>>> what he was doing and send the information now, he would have to
> >>>>> stop working on updating donor information to help us raise money,
> >>>>> because he was the only person in the office right now. When I asked
> >>>>> whether he could get us the meeting information prior to the next
> >>>>> LNC meeting on August 19 (over 2 months from now, and 4 months from
> when
> >> he originally said he'd provide it), his response was "possibly".
> >>>>> We have 11 people listed on our staff page
> >>>>> (https://www.lp.org/staff/), not even counting individuals like our
> >>>>> legal counsel and our FEC consultant who are kind of "on call", and
> >>>>> although political director Carla Howell's contract wasn't renewed,
> >>>>> the chair recently proposed adding an additional lower-level
> >>>>> staffer. With that many folks on the roster, I don't understand why
> >>>>> the two highest-paid individuals on staff are the only ones who are
> >>>>> being paid full-time salaries and asked to staff the office largely
> >>>>> by themselves. If this is true, it means that our highest-paid
> >>>>> staffers are likely spending a significant part of their time doing
> >>>>> routine office tasks like answering phone calls which could be
> handled
> >> by lower-paid staffers or even by volunteers.
> >>>>> Robert did say he agreed with me that staff should not be asked to
> >>>>> monitor or be involved in the party's social media outreach, which
> >>>>> would potentially take a lot of their time away from other tasks. I
> >>>>> also suggested that volunteers, instead of staff, could be the ones
> >>>>> to research LNC meeting locations and present options to the LNC.
> >>>>> Local activists in the cities where we're considering holding
> >>>>> meetings would be the logical people to do this. If we don't have
> >>>>> any local activists in a particular area able to help us find free
> >>>>> or low-cost meeting venues there and help with details such as
> >>>>> coordinating local transportation and folks able to host out-of-town
> >>>>> visitors, it would beg the question of why we are meeting in that
> >>>>> location instead of somewhere there is an active local Libertarian
> >>>>> organization that can support us and which we in turn can support by
> >>>>> seeking to arrange to have visiting LNC members make press
> appearances,
> >> attend local campaign events, do fundraising, etc., while in town.
> >>>>> But if what Robert says is correct, it seems to me that we are not
> >>>>> running our office efficiently. It also seems to me that LNC members
> >>>>> being made to wait months and months after an LNC meeting to see
> >>>>> what the actual expenses were for that meeting is unreasonable.
> >>>>> Actually, we should be seeing such expenses listed before each
> >>>>> meeting, since expenses like hotel meeting space fees, food and
> >>>>> beverage obligations, staff airline flights, and shipping costs are
> >>>>> in most cases known in advance. And we should be seeing estimates of
> >>>>> these costs prior to even making a decision on where to meet, since
> such
> >> costs ought to factor into our decisions.
> >>>>> Love & Liberty,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ((( starchild )))
> >>>>> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
> >>>>> RealReform at earthlink.net
> >>>>> (415) 625-FREE
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
> >>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> >>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
> >>>>>
> >>>> _____________________________________________
> >
> > <LNC_NDA_STARCHILD-0717.pdf><lnc-meeting-exp-2011-2014.pdf><LNC - Dec
> 2017.pdf><0817-Libertarian National Committee.pdf>________________
> _______________________________
> > Lnc-business mailing list
> > Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> > http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
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