[Lnc-business] Draft Minutes Comments

Joshua Katz planning4liberty at gmail.com
Sun Dec 31 00:23:03 EST 2017


Colleagues:

I apologize for waiting until the last minute on this, but it has been a
busy time (and continues to be) for me.  Furthermore, I would like to thank
Ms. Harlos for serving as secretary pro tem.  I have served as secretary in
a few organizations, and I imagine it would be a much harder job to do
without notice, so thank you.  Finally, let me apologize for my absence,
and relative silence since.  As I mentioned, it's been a busy time, and
during the few days that were less busy, I had little desire to think,
which resulted in reorganizing my apartment (a definite plus, in my book).
I had expected things to eventually become less busy, but that has proven
illusory, with my next job coming in on Tuesday, and a parliamentary
engagement coming up.

I have a few items, but before I proceed to those, I'd like to note an
issue with the Policy Manual which I will seek cosponsors to amend.  On
page 12, discussing automatic approval for minutes, the Policy Manual
states "Attendees may submit . . . ."  It then goes on to state the
deadline for comments.  Members who are not in attendance either may not
submit comments (the more likely interpretation) or may submit them anytime
(which, while not what was meant, is also true; failing to meet the
deadlines just means a motion to Amend Something Previously Adopted is
needed).  But, as this email proves, those not in attendance can very well
submit comments.  Since all the rule says is that these comments are
submitted for the Secretary's consideration, there's clearly nothing
stopping me.  Nothing requires that the draft be changed based on the
comments below - but that would be equally true for comments from an
attendee.  So, the language in the Policy Manual limiting comments to
attendees is toothless, or achieves nothing.  But even if it were
effective, I would object, as those not in attendance might very well have
useful comments (it's a matter of opinion whether or not those below are
useful).  As a clear example (which I admit to stealing), if a member not
in attendance sees the minutes reflecting a motion made by that very
member, that member has every bit of information needed to object.

So I would like to amend by striking "Attendees" and inserting in its place
"Members," and seek cosponsors.

With that said, here are my comments on the minutes.  Most reflect the
following, found at RONR, 11th ed, p. 468, ll. 14-21:  "In an ordinary
society, the minutes should contain mainly a record of what was done at the
meeting, not what was said by the members."  Certainly a body may choose to
include more, and our minutes often contain things not described in RONR.
Some of those are listed in the Policy Manual on p. 12.  Others typically
include, .e.g., the full course of amendment of a motion.  So I am not
objecting to everything in the minutes not stated by RONR, just to those
things I think should not be there.  In particular, I'm going to call
attention to points where debate has been included, and where it may be
mistakenly thought to reflect some part of an action taken by the LNC.

Page 5:  "After debate and concerns expressed by Ms. Bilyeu, Ms. Harlos,
and Starchild about the problems with secrecy, Mr. Goldstein called the
question (no second recorded) . . . ."

I do not think these debating points belong in the minutes.  I would
equally object even if debate from both sides were included.  I also have
two nit-picks here.  First, I would suggest that motions for the previous
question be stated more precisely, because the phrasing used here suggests
(if the context is ignored) that one member can close debate.  Second,
while I'm not objecting to the inclusion, throughout, of seconds (although
I noted while writing that Dr. Lark is, and I don't disagree), I would
question the parenthetical here.  As a general rule, the minutes need not
include seconders, so I think it is unnecessary for them to note the
absence of a record of the seconder.  What's more, even the absence of a
second would be immaterial once the chair states the question and debate
begins, and noting it suggests, to my eye at least, some deficiency.
Finally, the note is ambiguous - was the motion not seconded, or was it
seconded and the seconder not recorded?

Page 9:  “Both Harlos and Starchild object to the re-appointment of the
same persons, no matter how obviously qualified, year after year.”

As I said, I do not think these sorts of debating points should be in the
minutes.

I note that, while I was writing, Dr. Lark raised an objection to this same
sentence on other grounds.  I have no opinion on that objection since I was
absent, and since, in my view, accuracy is not material where I think the
item should not be included regardless.

Page 13

I have no particular comments here, but I note Dr. Lark's comment.  I don't
have a strong opinion on including the information Dr. Lark mentions (I do
have an opinion, but it isn't strong), but I would say that, if this is to
be done, it should be done consistently throughout.  I am in a rush to
finish this since I have an early flight, so I have not checked to see if
there are other instances where it would apply.

Page 15:  Amendment to Procedure for Approving Litigation

This was my agenda item, and I want to thank Dr. Lark for keeping it
alive.  Since no action was taken, I will be seeking cosponsors for an
email ballot.  I was in the process of perfecting the wording in the
airport when I noticed a group of angry people at the ticket counter and
hurried over, and haven't worked on it since, so I don't have my proposed
wording yet.  My intent, though, was to remove the EC's exclusive authority
over this topic, and to empower the LNC to decide - both for and against
(that is, not a simple addition of "or the LNC.")  I also want to create a
preference for the LNC deciding, subject to time constraints.  The language
on that last part is giving me trouble to avoid perverse incentives.

All that said, I don't object to the inclusion of a general statement of
what was discussed.  I think too much detail has been included, considering
that (as far as I can tell) nothing there reflects an LNC decision.

Pages 15-16

I do not think the minutes should include the bulleted list of topics
covered in questions, unless that list was adopted by the LNC in some way.
If it was, I think that should be made more clear.  Similarly, I do not
think the gun rights factor should be included.  As the draft minutes
state, it was a factor in the discussion, i.e. debate, which should not be
in the minutes.  Similarly, I would raise the same comments about the
meeting location decision at the bottom of the page.

Joshua A. Katz
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