[Lnc-business] Enough pussyfooting. Time for a fearless platform.

Sun Jan 1 19:47:40 EST 2017

I think that is a different subject than this thread or the thread
starter's intention so I will not rabbit trail this one.  You might wish to
start another discussion out of respect for the discussion at hand.

-- 
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>

On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 5:45 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org> wrote:

>
> How we frame discussions and the words we use do actually matter.  And
> beyond that, it does a significant disservice to our party and our platform
> to be jerks to people by broadly classifying them.
>
> I'll again point out that there are public school teachers who could
> become Libertarians.  If we push them away by attacking them, rather than
> the broader system, then they won't.  Because someone decided we needed to
> call public school teachers "babysitters" yet again, I'd like to reiterate
> my point by directly quoting the words of a commenter on the post...
>
> *As a public school teacher, I don't particularly care for the current
> public education system. As a concept, I'm not sure how I feel about public
> education. However, to suggest that we public school educators are
> incompetent is not only false, it's fucking insulting. I'd be willing to
> bet that most of the people who trash us, including the party's vice chair,
> haven't been in a K-12 classroom since they graduated high school.
> Basically what I'm trying to say is that until you have some experience in
> the modern classroom - and I mean actually observing it instead of picking
> up your kids on the curb or walking into the office to pick them up - you
> should probably take your criticism of educators and shove it into the
> deepest part of your ass.*
>
>
> This person, assuming they're writing in good faith, is a public school
> teacher like some of the ones I know.  They don't like the current state of
> public education.  They're open to new ideas.  But, we decided to denigrate
> them and call them "babysitters".
>
> There are people out there being actively repulsed because of what is
> being said in the name of the party.  Maybe someone really does hate public
> school teachers.  Okay.  But is that the message we want to convey as a
> party?  The Libertarian Party has no respect public school teachers?
> Because that's what the post says, and the reaction quoted above is the
> result.  A potential member, a potential new libertarian, has been repulsed
> because someone has decided that "public school teachers" are just
> "babysitters".
>
> I'm not making this idea up. And this is not the only instance. This is
> just the most-recent example of the broader problem.  The words we choose
> to use do, in fact, matter.
>
> ---
>
> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
> LPKY Judicial Committee
>
>
>
> On 2017-01-01 18:27, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>
> And that is done through explaining our Platform not by watering it down
> or turning the core document into the Libertarian equivalent of
> seeker-sensitive churches.
>
> Being seeker sensitive is indeed our job - as individual communicators -
> in varying tailored situations.
>
> But for that to work, the foundation must be clear solid and unabashedly
> clear.
>
> One can build many different kinds of buildings for different purposes for
> different peoples and uses - but it is all for naught without a solid
> foundation.
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 4:22 PM Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't think we should ever advocate anything against our principles.
>> However, I also think there's value in paying attention to how things are
>> packaged.  "Marketing" is a thing, because it has value.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> It's not always what you say, but how you say it, that matters.  Half of
>> the time, in politics, there's a fight over the language in the debate
>> because language helps set the context, which can and does effect the
>> outcome of the policy issue.  A great example of this is "illegal
>> immigrant" versus "undocumented worker".
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Another example:  A recent Facebook post by the LP Facebook Page called
>> teachers "babysitters".  As one who has worked with some school public
>> teachers on the Common Core issue, this didn't sit well with me at all.
>> There are good teachers out there; teachers we can help see the light and
>> flip to our side. But when our official party social media outlet
>> denigrates all teachers (and ironically, falling into a collectivist trap
>> by calling all public school teachers "babysitters") it turns people away.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The goal of the Libertarian Party is, in part, to spread libertarianism
>> and convert more people to it.  We can't do that if we're actively pushing
>> people away, whether intentionally or unintentionally.  We must consider
>> our words carefully.
>>
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>> My favorite "libertarian" platform of all time was the Boston Tea Party's
>> platform. It was simple and to the point.  "We support reducing the
>> size, scope and power of government at all levels and on all issues, and
>> oppose increasing the size, scope and power of government at any level, for
>> any purpose."
>>
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>> Even this "extreme" platform from the former BTP is acceptable to people
>> who work for government.  Everyone in government knows there's bloat and
>> waste.  From the local level, where land swap deals and favoritism reign
>> supreme; to the state level, where bureaucracy exists primarily to
>> perpetuate itself; to the Federal level, where the elected officials engage
>> in a show for the people while the bureaucracy runs the show.
>>
>>
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>> We must espouse our philosophy in a way that helps people see the light.
>> Not all people come to the LP overnight.  The ones I call "the light
>> switchers" -- the ones that woke up one day, the light went on, and they
>> realized they were libertarians -- are a good-sized chunk of our
>> membership.  And that's fine.  But for the other people -- the ones who,
>> like me, spent years of soul searching and rectifying core beliefs into
>> logical consistency -- we need to help the on that journey. We need to
>> bring them along.  They will come.  I've switched a number of people in my
>> life using this method.
>>
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>> That's my $0.02.
>>
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>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>>
>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>> On 2017-01-01 16:19, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>
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>>
>> Attached is David Nolan's Condensed Version from 1977.
>>
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>>
>> But in more serious tones, I echo everything Arvin said.  Hiding the ball
>> doesn't fool those those hate our ball - hidden or not -  and only
>> frustrates though that are just dying to find it.  I am not ashamed of what
>> we believe and drastic societal/economic/political change is accomplished
>> by clear bold principled stands.  No one goes to the metaphorical stocks
>> for an uninspiring lawyered-up vision.  We favour the complete and utter
>> separate of _______ and state. (you can put nearly anything in there - and
>> certainly with Arvin's position -  education and state).    I personally
>> love what CO did - set forth clear principled stands but made it clear that
>> we would support any true step to liberty (i.e. we are not "all or nothing"
>> - we will take what we can get and then continue to press for the prize):
>> From CO:
>>
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>> *Implementation*
>>
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>> We support any measure that actually reduces, and does not replace,
>>  illegitimate governmental action or violations of the rights of the
>> individual as put forth in our Preamble and Statement of Principles. While
>> recognizing that change often takes the form of increments and transitions,
>> the policies in the planks that follow are to be taken as quickly as
>> possible. (the "and does not replace" is a recommendation of this year's
>> LPCO Platform committee).
>>
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>> For every somewhat committed person we think we are gaining  by
>> disguising our principled positions (and I believe the next two years will
>> show that is not the case) I hear form multiple "all in" people who say
>> this is the last chance they are giving the LP. They have had it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> In any event, head counting and popularity tests fail when it comes to an
>> ideological movement.   Principles. Clear principles are the only thing
>> that is sure.  Our founders knew that which is why they implanted the
>> Statement of Principles with a depth charge, and I thank them for it.  If
>> the Party itself balks at stating what we believe we can't expect anyone
>> else to buy what we are saying.  The storekeep must be willing to sample
>> his own wares.
>>
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>> --
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>>
>> *In Liberty,*
>>
>>
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>
>>
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>
>>
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>
>>
>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
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>> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 2:05 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
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>> I am now in favour of Sam's suggestion since Bittner opposes it.
>>  #NeverBittner
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>> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
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>> While I am a fan of that, I like a bit more specificity.
>>
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>> The State: Boo, hiss
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>> Was floated in a group I belong to.  We opted for something more detailed.
>>
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>> David Nolan's abbreviated platform was quite nice.
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>> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 1:53 PM, Sam Goldstein <goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com
>> > wrote:
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>> I will suggested my 2004 platform revision that I presented
>>
>> at the Platform Committee meeting prior to the Atlanta
>>
>>
>> Convention:
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>> Replace the entire platform with two sentences:
>>
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>> We don't like government.  Let's get rid of it.
>>
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>> Sam
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>> Sam Goldstein
>>
>> Libertarian National Committee
>>
>>
>> Member at Large
>>
>>
>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>
>>
>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>
>>
>> 317-850-0726 <(317)%20850-0726> Phone
>>
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>> 317-582-1773 <(317)%20582-1773> Fax
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>> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
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>> AMEN!!'
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>> I make the same commitment as Arvin.
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>> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 1:36 PM Whitney Bilyeu <whitneycb76 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
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>> Agreed.
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>> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Arvin Vohra <votevohra at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
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>> If 2016 showed us one thing, it's that timid positions are neither
>> necessary nor effective in current politics.
>>
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>> Our current platform is designed to technically be accurate, while not
>> scaring anyone too badly. This is a losing proposition. A clear, inspiring,
>> and immediately comprehensible platform is far better than the fine-print
>> pretending to be marketing we have now.
>>
>>
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>> Take the education plank, for example:
>>
>> Education is best provided by the free market, achieving greater quality,
>> accountability and efficiency with more diversity of choice. Recognizing
>> that the education of children is a parental responsibility, we would
>> restore authority to parents to determine the education of their children,
>> without interference from government. Parents should have control of and
>> responsibility for all funds expended for their children's education.
>>
>>
>> What it means: Eliminate all public schools. Let people choose between
>> free, world-class, online offerings, homeschooling, and private education
>> in any form.
>>
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>> Intransigent supporters of public schools won't be fooled by the current
>> obfuscation. Opponents and potential opponents won't be inspired.
>>
>> Our job is to convince people of our positions, not to mask our positions
>> and pander. In order for people to be able to be convinced of our
>> positions, they first must understand what the position is.
>>
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>> I intend to support people for platform committee who will commit to an
>> honest, comprehensible, fearless platform.
>>
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>> In Liberty,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Arvin Vohra
>>
>>
>> Vice Chair
>>
>>
>> Libertarian National Committee
>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Arvin Vohra
>>
>> www.VoteVohra.com
>> VoteVohra at gmail.com
>> (301) 320-3634
>>
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>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>
>>
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
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>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
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>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
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>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
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>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
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>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
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>> --
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>> *In Liberty,*
>>
>>
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>
>>
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>
>>
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>
>>
>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
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>> *In Liberty,*
>>
>>
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>
>>
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>
>>
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>
>>
>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
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>> *In Liberty,*
>>
>>
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>
>>
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>
>>
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>
>>
>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
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>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

-- 
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
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