[Lnc-business] Enough pussyfooting. Time for a fearless platform.

Sun Jan 1 20:14:01 EST 2017

I read the Facebook page daily. And without commenting on that post, we
have similar comments to ALL posts.  There are also positive comments on
that post that you seem to be ignoring (again, I'm not choosing to argue
about that post but about how FB goes in general - I spend hours and hours
a week on the national FB page - I tend to think I know what I am talking
about.).

And yes, I still think rabbit trailing this discussion is inappropriate.

*No is advocating being offensive in the platform.* That is a red herring
and I think incredibly disrespectful to the intent of the email chain
starter when you can easily start your own on this particular topic.

-- 
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>

On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 6:08 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org> wrote:

>
> It's not different at all.  Wording matters.  Words matter.  I chose to
> focus on this Facebook post because it makes my point.
>
> Our platform can have the same effect.  The words we choose really do
> matter.  That's my entire point.  I have no issue with being consistent,
> even bold, in our platform.  What I do worry about is HOW it is conveyed.
>
> There is a thing within the broader libertarian circles on trying to
> "out-libertarian" other libertarians, and often this turns into a "I'm such
> a libertarian, I think we should ______" where the process of filling in
> the blank spirals downward into the realm of the most ridiculous and most
> offensive way of saying things.  I call this the "libertarian dick-size
> contest".  It is extremely counter-productive. It drives away potential
> future members - people who only need a little coaching to see the light -
> because someone wanted to prove how hardcore they are.
>
> I'm not saying that this was the impetus behind the particular Facebook
> post.  In fact, I don't really think it was, in this case. But it can be.
>
>
>
> I strongly encourage everyone to go read the comments on this Facebook
> post, on our official Facebook page, and see how words really do matter.
>
> https://www.facebook.com/libertarians/posts/10154865568037726
>
> Some highlights in reaction simply in labeling public school teachers
> "babysitters" prove my point.  That one idea - that one concept - of
> calling them "babysitters" has elicited some pretty legitimate backlash.
> Here are some highlights:
>
> *"This has to be communicated in a less confrontational way. I taught with
> some excellent teachers who did everything they could to help their
> students succeed. I also taught with some lazy incompetents. The post reads
> as though teachers are universally bad, which isn't the case."*
>
> *"I'm a Libertarian, and a public school teacher. You just spit on every
> hard working teacher like me."*
>
> *"To label the teacher as a babysitter is a crushing disservice. The
> problem is that the system is trying to turn our teachers into babysitters.
> Privatizing education is a big and interesting idea, but I agree with the
> statement that it should be communicated more effectively and not at the
> insult of dedicated and hardworking educators."*
>
> Words matter.  One word, one concept, has unnecessarily elicited a ton of
> negative feedback.  And again, that's my point.
>
> ---
>
> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
> LPKY Judicial Committee
>
>
>
> On 2017-01-01 19:47, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>
> I think that is a different subject than this thread or the thread
> starter's intention so I will not rabbit trail this one.  You might wish to
> start another discussion out of respect for the discussion at hand.
>
>
> --
> *In Liberty,*
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 5:45 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> How we frame discussions and the words we use do actually matter.  And
>> beyond that, it does a significant disservice to our party and our platform
>> to be jerks to people by broadly classifying them.
>>
>> I'll again point out that there are public school teachers who could
>> become Libertarians.  If we push them away by attacking them, rather than
>> the broader system, then they won't.  Because someone decided we needed to
>> call public school teachers "babysitters" yet again, I'd like to reiterate
>> my point by directly quoting the words of a commenter on the post...
>>
>> *As a public school teacher, I don't particularly care for the current
>> public education system. As a concept, I'm not sure how I feel about public
>> education. However, to suggest that we public school educators are
>> incompetent is not only false, it's fucking insulting. I'd be willing to
>> bet that most of the people who trash us, including the party's vice chair,
>> haven't been in a K-12 classroom since they graduated high school.
>> Basically what I'm trying to say is that until you have some experience in
>> the modern classroom - and I mean actually observing it instead of picking
>> up your kids on the curb or walking into the office to pick them up - you
>> should probably take your criticism of educators and shove it into the
>> deepest part of your ass.*
>>
>>
>> This person, assuming they're writing in good faith, is a public school
>> teacher like some of the ones I know.  They don't like the current state of
>> public education.  They're open to new ideas.  But, we decided to denigrate
>> them and call them "babysitters".
>>
>> There are people out there being actively repulsed because of what is
>> being said in the name of the party.  Maybe someone really does hate public
>> school teachers.  Okay.  But is that the message we want to convey as a
>> party?  The Libertarian Party has no respect public school teachers?
>> Because that's what the post says, and the reaction quoted above is the
>> result.  A potential member, a potential new libertarian, has been repulsed
>> because someone has decided that "public school teachers" are just
>> "babysitters".
>>
>> I'm not making this idea up. And this is not the only instance. This is
>> just the most-recent example of the broader problem.  The words we choose
>> to use do, in fact, matter.
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2017-01-01 18:27, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>
>> And that is done through explaining our Platform not by watering it down
>> or turning the core document into the Libertarian equivalent of
>> seeker-sensitive churches.
>>
>> Being seeker sensitive is indeed our job - as individual communicators -
>> in varying tailored situations.
>>
>> But for that to work, the foundation must be clear solid and unabashedly
>> clear.
>>
>> One can build many different kinds of buildings for different purposes
>> for different peoples and uses - but it is all for naught without a solid
>> foundation.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 4:22 PM Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't think we should ever advocate anything against our principles.
>>> However, I also think there's value in paying attention to how things are
>>> packaged.  "Marketing" is a thing, because it has value.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's not always what you say, but how you say it, that matters.  Half of
>>> the time, in politics, there's a fight over the language in the debate
>>> because language helps set the context, which can and does effect the
>>> outcome of the policy issue.  A great example of this is "illegal
>>> immigrant" versus "undocumented worker".
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Another example:  A recent Facebook post by the LP Facebook Page called
>>> teachers "babysitters".  As one who has worked with some school public
>>> teachers on the Common Core issue, this didn't sit well with me at all.
>>> There are good teachers out there; teachers we can help see the light and
>>> flip to our side. But when our official party social media outlet
>>> denigrates all teachers (and ironically, falling into a collectivist trap
>>> by calling all public school teachers "babysitters") it turns people away.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The goal of the Libertarian Party is, in part, to spread libertarianism
>>> and convert more people to it.  We can't do that if we're actively pushing
>>> people away, whether intentionally or unintentionally.  We must consider
>>> our words carefully.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My favorite "libertarian" platform of all time was the Boston Tea
>>> Party's platform. It was simple and to the point.  "We support reducing
>>> the size, scope and power of government at all levels and on all issues,
>>> and oppose increasing the size, scope and power of government at any level,
>>> for any purpose."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Even this "extreme" platform from the former BTP is acceptable to people
>>> who work for government.  Everyone in government knows there's bloat and
>>> waste.  From the local level, where land swap deals and favoritism reign
>>> supreme; to the state level, where bureaucracy exists primarily to
>>> perpetuate itself; to the Federal level, where the elected officials engage
>>> in a show for the people while the bureaucracy runs the show.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We must espouse our philosophy in a way that helps people see the
>>> light.  Not all people come to the LP overnight.  The ones I call "the
>>> light switchers" -- the ones that woke up one day, the light went on, and
>>> they realized they were libertarians -- are a good-sized chunk of our
>>> membership.  And that's fine.  But for the other people -- the ones who,
>>> like me, spent years of soul searching and rectifying core beliefs into
>>> logical consistency -- we need to help the on that journey. We need to
>>> bring them along.  They will come.  I've switched a number of people in my
>>> life using this method.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That's my $0.02.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>>
>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2017-01-01 16:19, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Attached is David Nolan's Condensed Version from 1977.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But in more serious tones, I echo everything Arvin said.  Hiding the
>>> ball doesn't fool those those hate our ball - hidden or not -  and only
>>> frustrates though that are just dying to find it.  I am not ashamed of what
>>> we believe and drastic societal/economic/political change is accomplished
>>> by clear bold principled stands.  No one goes to the metaphorical stocks
>>> for an uninspiring lawyered-up vision.  We favour the complete and utter
>>> separate of _______ and state. (you can put nearly anything in there - and
>>> certainly with Arvin's position -  education and state).    I personally
>>> love what CO did - set forth clear principled stands but made it clear that
>>> we would support any true step to liberty (i.e. we are not "all or nothing"
>>> - we will take what we can get and then continue to press for the prize):
>>> From CO:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Implementation*
>>>
>>>
>>> We support any measure that actually reduces, and does not replace,
>>>  illegitimate governmental action or violations of the rights of the
>>> individual as put forth in our Preamble and Statement of Principles. While
>>> recognizing that change often takes the form of increments and transitions,
>>> the policies in the planks that follow are to be taken as quickly as
>>> possible. (the "and does not replace" is a recommendation of this year's
>>> LPCO Platform committee).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For every somewhat committed person we think we are gaining  by
>>> disguising our principled positions (and I believe the next two years will
>>> show that is not the case) I hear form multiple "all in" people who say
>>> this is the last chance they are giving the LP. They have had it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In any event, head counting and popularity tests fail when it comes to
>>> an ideological movement.   Principles. Clear principles are the only thing
>>> that is sure.  Our founders knew that which is why they implanted the
>>> Statement of Principles with a depth charge, and I thank them for it.  If
>>> the Party itself balks at stating what we believe we can't expect anyone
>>> else to buy what we are saying.  The storekeep must be willing to sample
>>> his own wares.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>
>>>
>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>
>>>
>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>
>>>
>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>
>>>
>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 2:05 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am now in favour of Sam's suggestion since Bittner opposes it.
>>>  #NeverBittner
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> While I am a fan of that, I like a bit more specificity.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The State: Boo, hiss
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Was floated in a group I belong to.  We opted for something more
>>> detailed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> David Nolan's abbreviated platform was quite nice.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 1:53 PM, Sam Goldstein <
>>> goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I will suggested my 2004 platform revision that I presented
>>>
>>> at the Platform Committee meeting prior to the Atlanta
>>>
>>>
>>> Convention:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Replace the entire platform with two sentences:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We don't like government.  Let's get rid of it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sam
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sam Goldstein
>>>
>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>
>>>
>>> Member at Large
>>>
>>>
>>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>>
>>>
>>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>>
>>>
>>> 317-850-0726 <(317)%20850-0726> Phone
>>>
>>>
>>> 317-582-1773 <(317)%20582-1773> Fax
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> AMEN!!'
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I make the same commitment as Arvin.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 1:36 PM Whitney Bilyeu <whitneycb76 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Agreed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Arvin Vohra <votevohra at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If 2016 showed us one thing, it's that timid positions are neither
>>> necessary nor effective in current politics.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Our current platform is designed to technically be accurate, while not
>>> scaring anyone too badly. This is a losing proposition. A clear, inspiring,
>>> and immediately comprehensible platform is far better than the fine-print
>>> pretending to be marketing we have now.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Take the education plank, for example:
>>>
>>> Education is best provided by the free market, achieving greater
>>> quality, accountability and efficiency with more diversity of choice.
>>> Recognizing that the education of children is a parental responsibility, we
>>> would restore authority to parents to determine the education of their
>>> children, without interference from government. Parents should have control
>>> of and responsibility for all funds expended for their children's education.
>>>
>>>
>>> What it means: Eliminate all public schools. Let people choose between
>>> free, world-class, online offerings, homeschooling, and private education
>>> in any form.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Intransigent supporters of public schools won't be fooled by the current
>>> obfuscation. Opponents and potential opponents won't be inspired.
>>>
>>> Our job is to convince people of our positions, not to mask our
>>> positions and pander. In order for people to be able to be convinced of our
>>> positions, they first must understand what the position is.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I intend to support people for platform committee who will commit to an
>>> honest, comprehensible, fearless platform.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In Liberty,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Arvin Vohra
>>>
>>>
>>> Vice Chair
>>>
>>>
>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Arvin Vohra
>>>
>>> www.VoteVohra.com
>>> VoteVohra at gmail.com
>>> (301) 320-3634
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>
>>>
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>
>>>
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>
>>>
>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>
>>>
>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>
>>>
>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>
>>>
>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>
>>>
>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>
>>>
>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>
>>>
>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>
>>>
>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>
>>>
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>>> --
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>
>>>
>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>
>>>
>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>
>>>
>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>
>>>
>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>
>>>
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>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
> --
> *In Liberty,*
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>
>
>
>
>
>

-- 
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
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