[Lnc-business] Enough pussyfooting. Time for a fearless platform.
Daniel Hayes
danielehayes at icloud.com
Tue Jan 3 10:55:11 EST 2017
I like fried Bologna sandwiches on Bunny brand Plantation loaf white bread with yellow mustard.
Daniel Hayes
LNC At Large Member
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 3, 2017, at 8:21 AM, David Demarest <dpdemarest at centurylink.net> wrote:
>
> Has anyone tried to figure out why this acrimonious discussion continues to go in circles? Has either side moved beyond the “what” of their arguments to the “why” of how their principles can be scientifically tied to human behavior?
>
> For example, have we stopped to consider why Adam Smith’s “Invisible Hand” theory has been so widely accepted? Was that acceptance due to Smith’s ability to connect the success of free-markets to human behavior? Have we seriously considered the implications of Smith’s contention that free market success is due to the “unintended consequence of everyone acting in their self-interest in competition for scarce resources”? Did Ludwig von Mises capture the wisdom of Adam Smith when he coined the term “Praxeology”, the science of human decision making as the central tenet of Austrian Economics?
>
> Can Smith’s wisdom be extended to all human interactions when we examine human behavior in the light of the Non-Aggression Principle (NAP)? Have we fallen into the trap of putting the cart before the horse by focusing exclusively on the “what” of how we apply the NAP to specific actions? Do we first need to follow Smith’s successful example by scientifically tying the NAP to human behavior?
>
> Will we continue these fruitless arguments or will we work smarter not harder by taking a step back and examine the “why” behind our disagreements? Who is going to be the next Adam Smith or Ludwig von Mises among us to break this impasse by doing the necessary deep-dive root-cause analysis to determine to how the NAP can be scientifically tied to genetically inherent human behavior?
>
> Thoughts?
>
> ~David Pratt Demarest
> Region 6 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (IA, IL, MN, MO, ND, NE, WI)
>
> From: Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] On Behalf Of Caryn Ann Harlos
> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 7:19 AM
> To: Starchild <sfdreamer at earthlink.net>
> Cc: lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] Enough pussyfooting. Time for a fearless platform.
>
> Starchild I am not sure where you are thinking we don't.
>
> -Caryn Ann
>
> On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 6:15 AM Starchild <sfdreamer at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Words and containers may not be magical, but they are not uniform either, and for good reason – some containers are better suited to certain purposes than others. Of course there is a learning curve. With most of us there is a learning curve for libertarianism in general. But it will take longer for people to get up that curve if we don't share our insights. When we recognize that particular language we are using is reinforcing the dominance of the violence-based State, and that alternative phrasing is available, we should be bold enough to adopt new terms and get out in front in terms of helping shift a harmful paradigm, wouldn't you agree?
>
> Love & Liberty,
> ((( starchild )))
> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
> (415) 625-FREE
> @StarchildSF
>
>
> On Jan 3, 2017, at 4:36 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>
>
> I had this discussion yesterday with former Chair Dasbach who brought up your same point very well.
>
> But there is a learning curve so terminology *communicates*
>
> Words aren't magical - they are mere containers for meaning.
>
> As long as our containers are understood, we are doing our job.
>
>
> --
> In Liberty,
> Caryn Ann Harlos
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 5:32 AM Starchild <sfdreamer at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> I'll say again that just as we shouldn't back away from libertarian ideas when they are unpopular, neither should we back away from better libertarian terminology just because it is not (yet) widespread. What I am describing are public schools that are not owned or operated by government, and that is completely consistent with the Separation of School and State. The fact that most people may still refer to them as "private" schools – terminology that has served to make people more accepting of the State as supposedly acting on behalf of the public – shouldn't stop us from using a more appropriate description, again so long as we provide the context to ensure that people generally understand what we mean.
>
> Love & Liberty,
> ((( starchild )))
> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
> (415) 625-FREE
> @StarchildSF
>
>
> On Jan 2, 2017, at 12:31 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>
>
> Starchild then what you are describing is privately owned schools serving the public.
>
> And that is not what anyone means generally.
>
> But what we favour is the complete separation of education and state- at least under the Statement of Principles.
>
> But put that aside - and put aside the education plank - there is this plank which leaves no place for public schools
>
> The protection of individual rights is the only proper purpose of government
>
> --
> In Liberty,
> Caryn Ann Harlos
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 1:14 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
> Starchild - I love that wording on the Dallas Accord.
>
> But as I like to point out, because some re-writing of history has occurred, it isn't merely the Dallas Accord which some people are claiming is dead, it is the Statement of Principles which formalized the Dallas Accord at least in part. Thus anyone claiming the Dallas Accord is dead is completely contrary to our Bylaws.
>
> The myth of the complete informality of the Accord must die in a fire. It is untrue.
>
>
> --
> In Liberty,
> Caryn Ann Harlos
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 1:04 AM Starchild <sfdreamer at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Sam,
>
> That language would be contrary to the Dallas Accord agreement that we should leave our wording open as to whether our ultimate goal is non-aggressive government, or no government at all.
>
> Love & Liberty,
> ((( starchild )))
> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
> (415) 625-FREE
> @StarchildSF
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
> From: Sam Goldstein
>
>
> Sent: Jan 1, 2017 12:53 PM
>
>
> To: lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
>
> Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] Enough pussyfooting. Time for a fearless platform.
>
>
>
>
>
> I will suggested my 2004 platform revision that I presented
> at the Platform Committee meeting prior to the Atlanta
> Convention:
>
> Replace the entire platform with two sentences:
>
> We don't like government. Let's get rid of it.
>
> Sam
>
> Sam Goldstein
> Libertarian National Committee
> Member at Large
> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
> Indianapolis IN 46260
> 317-850-0726 Phone
> 317-582-1773 Fax
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
> AMEN!!'
>
> I make the same commitment as Arvin.
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 1:36 PM Whitney Bilyeu <whitneycb76 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Agreed.
>
> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Arvin Vohra <votevohra at gmail.com> wrote:
> If 2016 showed us one thing, it's that timid positions are neither necessary nor effective in current politics.
>
> Our current platform is designed to technically be accurate, while not scaring anyone too badly. This is a losing proposition. A clear, inspiring, and immediately comprehensible platform is far better than the fine-print pretending to be marketing we have now.
>
> Take the education plank, for example:
>
> Education is best provided by the free market, achieving greater quality, accountability and efficiency with more diversity of choice. Recognizing that the education of children is a parental responsibility, we would restore authority to parents to determine the education of their children, without interference from government. Parents should have control of and responsibility for all funds expended for their children’s education.
>
>
> What it means: Eliminate all public schools. Let people choose between free, world-class, online offerings, homeschooling, and private education in any form.
>
> Intransigent supporters of public schools won't be fooled by the current obfuscation. Opponents and potential opponents won't be inspired.
>
> Our job is to convince people of our positions, not to mask our positions and pander. In order for people to be able to be convinced of our positions, they first must understand what the position is.
>
> I intend to support people for platform committee who will commit to an honest, comprehensible, fearless platform.
>
> In Liberty,
>
> Arvin Vohra
> Vice Chair
> Libertarian National Committee
>
>
>
> --
> Arvin Vohra
>
> www.VoteVohra.com
> VoteVohra at gmail.com
> (301) 320-3634
>
>
>
>
>
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