[Lnc-business] I Do Not Agree With What You Say...

Wed May 17 18:51:45 EDT 2017

What do members think a censure is?

Daniel Hayes
LNC At Large Member

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 17, 2017, at 5:32 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> If that last comment wasn't clear, Joshua was persuasive that the power of censure etc, which is what people are calling for is not a power we have if we believe in the separation between personal and official voice. Which I absolutely do.
> 
> I believe we personally can disagree in our own voices as can affiliates and members.
> 
> -Caryn Ann
> 
>> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 4:14 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I am going to speak in substantial agreement here with Joshua on the official action thing and the "personal" versus "official" life.  Thank you Joshua.
>> 
>> I disagree in some other areas, and have some thoughts, but it is not the time or place.
>> 
>> I can tell you, Region 1 people are upset and angry, and I do not blame them one bit.  I completely appreciated the apology but then I saw another comment today about public school teachers, and I absolutely cannot and do it agree, nor will I appear to agree.
>> 
>> I in my own voice will say so, and I encourage others to do so.  
>> 
>> 
>> -Caryn Ann
>> 
>>> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 3:12 PM, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Colleagues:
>>> 
>>> Like the many members we have heard from lately, I disagree strongly with recent comments of one of our members.  I feel they are politically backward, and I wish they would stop because of the embarrassment they can bring on this party, and because they lack an appreciation of nuance, in my opinion.  Nor is it my position that, as I've seen some claiming, these comments are "true but embarrassing."  I am not one who believes that we need to hold back some sacred truths of liberty from the unwashed masses.  I often am embarrassed by statements precisely because I think they are wrong - either false or, perhaps more commonly, in that realm of failing to be either true or false.
>>> 
>>> I am primarily writing, though, to let you know that I would vote 'no' on any of the proposed measures, including censure and suspension.  I would vote no because I do not agree that LNC members are never "off the clock."  Yes, it is true, people know who we are, and we can never, really, take off our "hats" in public.  That's one reason I strive for a low social media profile - that's my personal vision of the position.  But when I speak about politics, and do not identify my speech as that of the LP, I do not expect this body to sit in judgment of its truth or its effectiveness.  
>>> 
>>> I believe that censure and suspension are best reserved for unacceptable activities carried out within office.  I do not believe it is appropriate to define anything we do which touches on politics as 'within office.'  As I've discussed before, in my view we each have almost no power, with some exceptions, except as members of this body.  Our power is to vote, not to direct things ourselves.  This cuts both ways.  We do not have the power to speak for the LP, as individuals, except when specifically given this power by the bylaws or by an appropriate resolution or motion.  Lacking that power, we cannot do it wrong.
>>> 
>>> Furthermore, we do not choose our chair and vice-chair.  They are elected by the delegates.  I resent the implication that a few outspoken members should, through LNC action, undo the will of the convention.  It is not our job, if we think that actions of the delegates have led to insensitive messaging, to try to reverse those actions.
>>> 
>>> It is our job, on a semi-related note, to control our own messaging.  Complaining about FB posts from one of our members is easier than thinking carefully about what we do and how we do it, but it is not a solution.  It is our job, to agree with Mr. Somes, to construct a message so good, so coherent, so consistent, and broadcast so loud that no one: board member, candidate, or member, can be taken to speak for the party if they contradict that messaging or its tone.  If we believe that one person, speaking on a platform not provided by this party, can derail our message, then shame on us.
>>> 
>>> Further, that hasn't happened.  It is primarily our own people who are angry.  I myself am offended, in addition to disagreeing, but I do not see outrage outside Libertarian circles.  It will be objected that this is because of our small size and relative lack of success, that if we were larger, we could not afford to be silent.  That may very well be true.  Yet the world is as it is, and we can afford to be silent, and, in my opinion, should.  Furthermore, if we were in the position described, it is also true that our own messaging would be better.  I say let's deal with the meme in our own eye before criticizing extra-party messaging.  (As an individual, I feel free to criticize, I am speaking about this board's activities.)
>>> 
>>> Is there any allegation that a member of this board has violated a fiduciary responsibility, has double-dealt for personal gain or gain of others, or has in any way done anything wrong in their party capacity?  As far as I am aware, there is not.  We are speaking about a person who has, in my view, governed well.  We do not always agree, but I always respect his opinions and decisions - and I appreciate that he treats mine the same.  Our job is to govern the party - Mr. Vohra does that very well.  The vice-chair has additional duties: no one has made any allegation that these were carried out badly or incorrectly.  Until I see allegations about those (and I am confident there are none, Mr. Vohra fulfills those responsibilities just fine) I will vote no on any motion on this topic.
>>> 
>>> In other news, the President of the United States may have revealed classified information to the Russian Foreign Minister and compromised an Israeli source.  The travel ban is still working its way through the courts.  The Republicans in the House have done what we thought was impossible: found a way to make the ACA more freedom-destroying.  Democrats and Republicans are working in lockstep to attack prosperity and the freedom of all, around the world, through nationalist-protectionist policies.  I would like to see this party focused on electing Libertarians to office who are serious about, and effective in, addressing these and other issues.  In addition to rolling back the size and scope of government, I'd like to see our elected officials simply managing the thing more competently than the corrupt members of the other parties have shown themselves capable of doing.  After all, a more effective government will require, in my opinion, a smaller, less powerful government.  The government cannot be competent in doing tasks far beyond its competence.  So yes, I'd like to see us not insulting key groups of voters or making other political missteps.  I'd like to see us prioritize policy over both personal attacks and abstractions - while remembering that we can inspire not just with pocketbook issues, but also with the power of what is right and with strong ideals.  
>>> 
>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> In Liberty,
>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus 
>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>> 
>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>> We defend your rights
>> And oppose the use of force
>> Taxation is theft
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> In Liberty,
> Caryn Ann Harlos
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus 
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
> 
> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> We defend your rights
> And oppose the use of force
> Taxation is theft
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
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