[Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2017-11: Military Members

Sat May 20 10:22:33 EDT 2017

This is the action that Region 1 supports through the Chairs and the
majority of members now have opposed other action at last through informal
communication - certainly 2/3 don't want it and that is how I represent
Region 1.   I firmly believe that my spending hundreds of personal dollars
and dozens of hours polling delegates by mail will yield the same result.
This is the prerogative of the delegates. Just waiting for a few Chairs
about wording.  Arvin apologized.  I'm not going to argue on this list
whether his apology was sufficient.  It was asked for and given and
personally I refuse to go down the road of not accepting apologies.  It
begins to seem (and it is sad that I have to worry that my words will be
used by ***someone somewhere*** to whip up a FB lynch mob, so let me
restate it begins to ****seem*** like a pound of flesh is required.
Appearance and optics are important as we all agree.). If we want a policy
manual or Bylaw to police LNC members to that extent, propose it.  If we
want to say LNC members are never off the clock, propose it. I agree with
Joshua that this is not what the Bylaw anticipates and we have nearly all
spoken out individually.   Including the Party Chair chosen by the
delegates.  Strongly so.

This is already creating a culture of fear of what can and cannot be said
and that is death to liberty and the road to creating a much different
Party than most signed up for.  It is easy when the target is one most
disagree with- the next one will be less- and less.  That is the way purges
work, they don't start that way.  They start with the best intentions and
great people.  History shows this over and over.

**Arvin should not have said that.  We said that multiple times on this
list.  Nearly everyone has.  I certainly have.  I personally asked for the
given apology.**

Are we really going down this road Larry?  Because I am hearing from
members who say things you have said have now made *them* feel unwelcome
and empathy demands that I hear them and understand where they are coming
from.  That sentiment is building.  That you have decided what level of
anti-war and other views are acceptable and that if someone is too
"radical" - no Libertarian Party for you- despite the fact that we were
founded by people who said many of these same things whether we agree or
not. If we're going to go down this road of Facebook censoring that kind of
hype and destructive factionalism is exactly where it leads.  I told you in
fact that something you said made me and others feel very censored- we
talked about it. Others have since expressed that.  We decided you be you,
and I be me.

The resolution actually DOES say we don't agree by first, acknowledging the
good and noble intentions, and placing blame on the state, where it
belongs.  It actually does say we understand, you are valued and welcomed.

It has received strong support from members.  I'm awaiting final word from
my chairs.  Barring a majority objection (and the one objection I received
only had to do with the use of the word "corrupted" not anything at concern
here), this will have my yes vote.  Seeing how the majority of my region
chairs opposed me even sponsoring the other motion (when that doesn't
indicate agreement), I doubt the result would change when I ask about a
vote.  And enough LNC members have said no already that it would not pass,
 which means to me that something else is intended to be said by an
obviously doomed motion, - what I don't know other than I want no part in
that and do not care to speculate or wonder.  I'm in this because I believe
in our ideals and try to steer clear of everything else.

I am committed to speak a bold, radical, positive and empowering message
for liberty. And I'm ready to get back to doing that.

-Caryn Ann

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 7:20 AM Ken Moellman <lpky at mu-net.org> wrote:

> R3 Alternate - I vote yes.
>
> Larry - I understand your concern, but this action is easy, it's
> agreeable, it's specifically on platform, and I think it should be done.
> If further action is to be pursued by this body, this won't contradict that
> action.
>
> ken
>
> On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 9:10 AM, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Yes
>>
>> Joshua A. Katz
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 6:58 AM, Sam Goldstein <
>> goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I vote Yes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sam Goldstein
>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>> Member at Large
>>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>> 317-850-0726 <(317)%20850-0726> Phone
>>> 317-582-1773 <(317)%20582-1773> Fax
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 7:23 AM, Larry Sharpe <lsharpe at neo-sage.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> My worry is where is:
>>>>
>>>>    - We're sorry for the insult or,
>>>>    - You are NOT all murderers or,
>>>>    - Arvin shouldn't have said that or,
>>>>    - We don't agree with Arvin or,
>>>>    - Anything about the actual incident?
>>>>
>>>> While it is nice (Thank you, Daniel), I read this as:
>>>>
>>>> "We really want you guys in the party, please don't go. But you're
>>>> still all murderers and Arvin is exactly what we want in leadership."
>>>>
>>>> Is the the end of our action/response?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 6:45 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Awaiting further input from my chairs - as it is over the weekend.  My
>>>>> vote will likely be during the week.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 2:51 AM Patrick McKnight <
>>>>> patrick.joseph.mcknight at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Patrick McKnight
>>>>>> Region 8 Rep
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 20, 2017 4:24 AM, "Alicia Mattson" <agmattson at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I vote yes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Alicia
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 1:01 AM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson at gmail.com
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We have an electronic mail ballot.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by May 30, 2017 at
>>>>>>>> 11:59:59pm Pacific time.*
>>>>>>>> *Sponsor:*  Hayes, Hewitt, Hagan, Mattson
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Motion:*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Whereas, We support the maintenance of a sufficient military to
>>>>>>>> defend the United States against aggression and believe that the United
>>>>>>>> States should both avoid entangling alliances and abandon its attempts to
>>>>>>>> act as policeman for the world;
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Whereas, We oppose any form of compulsory national service and
>>>>>>>> recognize that many members of the military
>>>>>>>> were unjustly conscripted in the past;
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Whereas, Most voluntary members of the military joined with the
>>>>>>>> idea and/or goal of defending the United States
>>>>>>>> and, thereby, their property, families, and friends;
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Whereas, The United States Military-Industrial-Complex has used
>>>>>>>> many well-meaning military service members for
>>>>>>>> purposes other than defense against aggression and further involved
>>>>>>>> them in foreign entanglements during attempts
>>>>>>>> to act as the world’s policeman; and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Whereas, Many current and former military service members are able
>>>>>>>> to relate, identify, and speak out on the ways
>>>>>>>> in which the United States military mission has been expanded and
>>>>>>>> corrupted beyond a legitimate role of defense
>>>>>>>> against aggression; now, therefore, be it;
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Resolved, Present and former members of the military who give such
>>>>>>>> unique and powerful voice to the libertarian
>>>>>>>> principles of peace and the non-initiation of force add great value
>>>>>>>> to the Libertarian Party, and are welcomed as a
>>>>>>>> vital part of our membership.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Alicia
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>>
>>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>> *We defend your rights*
>>>>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>>>> *Taxation is theft*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Larry
>>>>
>>>> *Larry Sharpe*
>>>>
>>>> *The Neo-Sage Group, Inc.*
>>>>
>>>> http://TheNeoSage.com/ <http://theneosage.com/>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/TheNeoSageGroup>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/user/TheNeoSage
>>>>
>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/neosage
>>>>
>>>> *https://www.facebook.com/neosage <https://www.facebook.com/neosage>*
>>>>
>>>> *212-307-3545 <212-307-3545>*
>>>>   *Instructing – Advancing – Inspiring*
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>
-- 
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee

A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
*We defend your rights*
*And oppose the use of force*
*Taxation is theft*
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