[Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2017-11: Military Members

Sat May 20 11:11:48 EDT 2017

Thank you Larry.  Have a wonderful weekend - and if you are in the City,
I'm jelly- would love a nice night out in an exciting city tonight.

-Caryn Ann

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 9:10 AM Larry Sharpe <lsharpe at neo-sage.com> wrote:

> Thank you Caryn Ann.
>
> You are correct. Please ignore my earlier concerns. I support the motion
> without reservation.
>
> On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 10:22 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> This is the action that Region 1 supports through the Chairs and the
>> majority of members now have opposed other action at last through informal
>> communication - certainly 2/3 don't want it and that is how I represent
>> Region 1.   I firmly believe that my spending hundreds of personal dollars
>> and dozens of hours polling delegates by mail will yield the same result.
>> This is the prerogative of the delegates. Just waiting for a few Chairs
>> about wording.  Arvin apologized.  I'm not going to argue on this list
>> whether his apology was sufficient.  It was asked for and given and
>> personally I refuse to go down the road of not accepting apologies.  It
>> begins to seem (and it is sad that I have to worry that my words will be
>> used by ***someone somewhere*** to whip up a FB lynch mob, so let me
>> restate it begins to ****seem*** like a pound of flesh is required.
>> Appearance and optics are important as we all agree.). If we want a policy
>> manual or Bylaw to police LNC members to that extent, propose it.  If we
>> want to say LNC members are never off the clock, propose it. I agree with
>> Joshua that this is not what the Bylaw anticipates and we have nearly all
>> spoken out individually.   Including the Party Chair chosen by the
>> delegates.  Strongly so.
>>
>> This is already creating a culture of fear of what can and cannot be said
>> and that is death to liberty and the road to creating a much different
>> Party than most signed up for.  It is easy when the target is one most
>> disagree with- the next one will be less- and less.  That is the way purges
>> work, they don't start that way.  They start with the best intentions and
>> great people.  History shows this over and over.
>>
>> **Arvin should not have said that.  We said that multiple times on this
>> list.  Nearly everyone has.  I certainly have.  I personally asked for the
>> given apology.**
>>
>> Are we really going down this road Larry?  Because I am hearing from
>> members who say things you have said have now made *them* feel unwelcome
>> and empathy demands that I hear them and understand where they are coming
>> from.  That sentiment is building.  That you have decided what level of
>> anti-war and other views are acceptable and that if someone is too
>> "radical" - no Libertarian Party for you- despite the fact that we were
>> founded by people who said many of these same things whether we agree or
>> not. If we're going to go down this road of Facebook censoring that kind of
>> hype and destructive factionalism is exactly where it leads.  I told you in
>> fact that something you said made me and others feel very censored- we
>> talked about it. Others have since expressed that.  We decided you be you,
>> and I be me.
>>
>> The resolution actually DOES say we don't agree by first, acknowledging
>> the good and noble intentions, and placing blame on the state, where it
>> belongs.  It actually does say we understand, you are valued and welcomed.
>>
>> It has received strong support from members.  I'm awaiting final word
>> from my chairs.  Barring a majority objection (and the one objection I
>> received only had to do with the use of the word "corrupted" not anything
>> at concern here), this will have my yes vote.  Seeing how the majority of
>> my region chairs opposed me even sponsoring the other motion (when that
>> doesn't indicate agreement), I doubt the result would change when I ask
>> about a vote.  And enough LNC members have said no already that it would
>> not pass,  which means to me that something else is intended to be said by
>> an obviously doomed motion, - what I don't know other than I want no part
>> in that and do not care to speculate or wonder.  I'm in this because I
>> believe in our ideals and try to steer clear of everything else.
>>
>> I am committed to speak a bold, radical, positive and empowering message
>> for liberty. And I'm ready to get back to doing that.
>>
>> -Caryn Ann
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 7:20 AM Ken Moellman <lpky at mu-net.org> wrote:
>>
>>> R3 Alternate - I vote yes.
>>>
>>> Larry - I understand your concern, but this action is easy, it's
>>> agreeable, it's specifically on platform, and I think it should be done.
>>> If further action is to be pursued by this body, this won't contradict that
>>> action.
>>>
>>> ken
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 9:10 AM, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes
>>>>
>>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 6:58 AM, Sam Goldstein <
>>>> goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I vote Yes.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sam Goldstein
>>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>> Member at Large
>>>>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>>>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>>>> 317-850-0726 <(317)%20850-0726> Phone
>>>>> 317-582-1773 <(317)%20582-1773> Fax
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 7:23 AM, Larry Sharpe <lsharpe at neo-sage.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> My worry is where is:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    - We're sorry for the insult or,
>>>>>>    - You are NOT all murderers or,
>>>>>>    - Arvin shouldn't have said that or,
>>>>>>    - We don't agree with Arvin or,
>>>>>>    - Anything about the actual incident?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While it is nice (Thank you, Daniel), I read this as:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "We really want you guys in the party, please don't go. But you're
>>>>>> still all murderers and Arvin is exactly what we want in leadership."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is the the end of our action/response?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 6:45 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Awaiting further input from my chairs - as it is over the weekend.
>>>>>>> My vote will likely be during the week.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 2:51 AM Patrick McKnight <
>>>>>>> patrick.joseph.mcknight at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Patrick McKnight
>>>>>>>> Region 8 Rep
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On May 20, 2017 4:24 AM, "Alicia Mattson" <agmattson at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I vote yes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Alicia
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 1:01 AM, Alicia Mattson <
>>>>>>>>> agmattson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We have an electronic mail ballot.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by May 30, 2017 at
>>>>>>>>>> 11:59:59pm Pacific time.*
>>>>>>>>>> *Sponsor:*  Hayes, Hewitt, Hagan, Mattson
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *Motion:*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Whereas, We support the maintenance of a sufficient military to
>>>>>>>>>> defend the United States against aggression and believe that the United
>>>>>>>>>> States should both avoid entangling alliances and abandon its attempts to
>>>>>>>>>> act as policeman for the world;
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Whereas, We oppose any form of compulsory national service and
>>>>>>>>>> recognize that many members of the military
>>>>>>>>>> were unjustly conscripted in the past;
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Whereas, Most voluntary members of the military joined with the
>>>>>>>>>> idea and/or goal of defending the United States
>>>>>>>>>> and, thereby, their property, families, and friends;
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Whereas, The United States Military-Industrial-Complex has used
>>>>>>>>>> many well-meaning military service members for
>>>>>>>>>> purposes other than defense against aggression and further
>>>>>>>>>> involved them in foreign entanglements during attempts
>>>>>>>>>> to act as the world’s policeman; and
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Whereas, Many current and former military service members are
>>>>>>>>>> able to relate, identify, and speak out on the ways
>>>>>>>>>> in which the United States military mission has been expanded and
>>>>>>>>>> corrupted beyond a legitimate role of defense
>>>>>>>>>> against aggression; now, therefore, be it;
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Resolved, Present and former members of the military who give
>>>>>>>>>> such unique and powerful voice to the libertarian
>>>>>>>>>> principles of peace and the non-initiation of force add great
>>>>>>>>>> value to the Libertarian Party, and are welcomed as a
>>>>>>>>>> vital part of our membership.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -Alicia
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>>>> *We defend your rights*
>>>>>>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>>>>>> *Taxation is theft*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Larry
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Larry Sharpe*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *The Neo-Sage Group, Inc.*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://TheNeoSage.com/ <http://theneosage.com/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/TheNeoSageGroup>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/user/TheNeoSage
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/neosage
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *https://www.facebook.com/neosage <https://www.facebook.com/neosage>*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *212-307-3545 <212-307-3545>*
>>>>>>   *Instructing – Advancing – Inspiring*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>
>> --
>> *In Liberty,*
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>
>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>> *We defend your rights*
>> *And oppose the use of force*
>> *Taxation is theft*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Larry
>
> *Larry Sharpe*
>
> *The Neo-Sage Group, Inc.*
>
> http://TheNeoSage.com/ <http://theneosage.com/>
>
> <https://www.facebook.com/TheNeoSageGroup>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/user/TheNeoSage
>
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/neosage
>
> *https://www.facebook.com/neosage <https://www.facebook.com/neosage>*
>
> *212-307-3545 <212-307-3545>*
>   *Instructing – Advancing – Inspiring*
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>
-- 
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee

A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
*We defend your rights*
*And oppose the use of force*
*Taxation is theft*
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://hq.lp.org/pipermail/lnc-business/attachments/20170520/92a0a76c/attachment-0002.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image001.png
Type: image/png
Size: 3629 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://hq.lp.org/pipermail/lnc-business/attachments/20170520/92a0a76c/attachment-0002.png>