[Lnc-business] Bylaws Committee Veil of Secrecy.
Daniel Hayes
danielehayes at icloud.com
Mon May 22 20:15:00 EDT 2017
We've got rules shoved all over the place. But if someone can't point you to the specific rule, and you have to break the rule to find out what the rule is. Meh. Who are we?
Daniel Hayes
LNC At Large Member
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 22, 2017, at 7:11 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> So it seems to me that I can forward all the emails to my own reflector list if I wished? Or anyone else on the committee could? That the committee cannot prohibit that?
>
> Further, we spring from the parent organization - I don't see how members can be prohibited from something the parent organization does.
>
> -Caryn Ann
>
>
>> On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 5:36 PM Daniel Hayes <danielehayes at icloud.com> wrote:
>> From pages 500-501. Of RONR 11th Ed.
>> "Committees of organized societies operate under the bylaws, the parliamentary authority, and any special rules of order or standing rules of the society which may be applicable to them. A committee may not adopt its own rules except as authorized in the rules of the society or in instructions given to the committee by its parent assembly in a particular case. If a standing or special committee is so large that it can function best in the manner of a full-scale assembly, it should be instructed that the informalities and modifications of the regular rules of parliamentary procedure listed for small boards on pages 487–88 are not to apply to its proceedings.
>> When a committee is to make substantive recommendations or decisions on an important matter, it should give members of the society an opportunity to appear before it and present their views on the subject at a time scheduled by the committee. Such a meeting is usually called a hearing. During actual deliberations of the committee, only committee members have the right to be present. "
>>
>>
>> So Caryn Ann,
>>
>> Unless I am missing something in our rules somewhere else, the LNC Bylaws committee does not have the authority to create rules of order on its own.
>>
>> If this secrecy is just how this has always been done regarding our bylaws committee I would point you to page 19 of RONR 11th ed. It covers custom. When a point of order is raised custom falls to the floor.
>>
>>
>> Daniel Hayes
>> LNC At Large Member
>>
>>
>>
>>> On May 22, 2017, at 5:46 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> And to be clear as well, if the committee does not want to have an automatical read-only list like this one, under what authority can any individual member be prevented from copying any or all emails and posting them on a list themselves?
>>>
>>> This is Party business not personal love letters.
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 4:24 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> And at the risk of speaking for Ms. Ruff (who follows this list due to our transparency), I think she is equally unclear.
>>>>
>>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 4:23 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> See David demonstrates exactly what the problem is.... neither of us know what we can say and it is like walking on eggshells. Our rights and duties should be clearly spelled out.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 4:20 PM, David Demarest <dprattdemarest at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Daniel, likewise on the Nebraska Unicameral. The Judiciary Committee chaired by Laura Ebke is wide open to the public as are all Unicameral committees that I am aware. I may have heard that they can optionally use executive sessions for votes which sounds dubious to me but I will check with Laura. I am not sure if and why the fact that we are a party not a legislature should make a difference.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Darned if I know how to answer Whitney's question at this point without risk of impropriety until our transparency rules are defined but I do have serious concerns with the direction this is going and the possible justifications for lack of transparency. Perhaps a minority report will shed some light.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Out of curiosity, I wonder how the two major parties handle transparency on their Bylaws & Rules committees. I would hope that we compare favorably on the side of transparency.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 22, 2017 3:45 PM, <danielehayes at icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All, and especially Mr. Katz in his role as chairman of the Bylaws Committee,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It has come to my attention and my brain momentarily allotted enough bandwidth to really think about this. Under what authority are our bylaws meetings secret? (No, Starchild has not hijacked my computer). Specifically Ms. Harlos is acting like she just joined Fight Club. Ms. 1000 Emails being mostly clammed shut. I am worried she might end up like the kid from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory movie that got the experimental candy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> These are all the reasons for going into executive session in our rules with a majority vote.
>>>>>>> • Legal matters (potential, pending, or past)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> • Regulatory and compliance matters (potential, pending, or past)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> • Contractual compliance
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> • Personnel matters (including evaluation, compensation, hiring, or dismissal)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> • Board self-evaluation
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> • Strategic issues (only those requiring confidentiality)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> • Negotiations (potential, pending, or past)
>>>>>>> Other topics require a two-thirds vote of LNC.
>>>>>>> No action can be taken while in Executive Session.
>>>>>>> Discussion of action which may be taken in Open Session can occur.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The reasons for going into Executive session are supposed to be listed if a vote was taken.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But when I ask about the vote to go into executive session I am told that there was no vote.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I realize that we have rules all over the place and I might be missing something, hence I am asking, Why?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Someone enlighten me as to what’s up before I slam big brown(11th ed.) on down.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How is this remotely in line with what this organization stands for?
>>>>>>> I would flip a gasket if the Louisiana Legislature was operating in this manner. This wouldn’t pass muster under Sunshine Laws for government. Let that sink in.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Daniel Hayes
>>>>>>> LNC At Large Member
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> In Liberty,
>>>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>>
>>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>> We defend your rights
>>>>> And oppose the use of force
>>>>> Taxation is theft
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> In Liberty,
>>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>
>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>> We defend your rights
>>>> And oppose the use of force
>>>> Taxation is theft
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> In Liberty,
>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>
>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>> We defend your rights
>>> And oppose the use of force
>>> Taxation is theft
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
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