[Lnc-business] Region 6 Removal Motion Input Summary
Sam Goldstein
goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com
Wed May 24 22:20:26 EDT 2017
David,
I must have misread your No vote. As far as I know there is no time limit
for seeking
co-sponsors for an email ballot but that proposed motion has not had one
yet so I'm
guessing it is not going to become an official motion.
I also would have voted No if it had gained the necessary sponsors.
Sam
Sam Goldstein
Libertarian National Committee
Member at Large
8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
Indianapolis IN 46260
317-850-0726 Phone
317-582-1773 Fax
On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 9:44 PM, Daniel Hayes <danielehayes at icloud.com>
wrote:
> The time expires July 3rd,2018.
>
> Daniel Hayes
> LNC At Large Member
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 24, 2017, at 8:39 PM, David Demarest <dpdemarest at centurylink.net>
> wrote:
>
> “Therefore I must, with a heavy heart, make a motion to remove Arvin
> Vohra from his position as Vice Chair under Article 6, Section 7 of our
> Bylaws. Who will second this motion?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Patrick McKnight
>
> Region 8 Rep”
>
>
>
> Hi Sam,
>
>
>
> Based on your long commendable service to the LP and LNC and your
> expertise in such matters, I assume that you must be technically correct.
> Has the time for cosponsors expired? I have seen no official LNC
> communication to that effect but if so I will communicate that fact to
> interested Region 6 members.
>
>
>
> As I clearly stated, had the motion received three cosponsors, I would
> have voted NO. Referencing the quote above, it certainly appears that a
> motion was offered. What am I missing here? J
>
>
>
> Regardless, I wanted to respect the wishes of Region 6 members to have
> their views communicated to you and the rest of the LNC members for your
> consideration or at least to make you aware of their concerns.
>
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
> ~David
>
>
>
> ~David Pratt Demarest
>
> LNC Region 6 Representative (IA, IL, MN, MO, ND, NE, WI)
>
> Secretary, LPNE State Central Committee
>
> Cell: 402-981-6469 <(402)%20981-6469>
>
> Home: 402-493-0873 <(402)%20493-0873>
>
>
>
> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org
> <lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org>] *On Behalf Of *Sam Goldstein
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 24, 2017 7:59 PM
> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> *Cc:* lnc-business at lp.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] Region 6 Removal Motion Input Summary
>
>
>
> David,
>
>
>
> There was never a removal motion so how could you vote No?
>
>
>
> Sam
>
>
> Sam Goldstein
>
> Libertarian National Committee
>
> Member at Large
>
> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>
> Indianapolis IN 46260
>
> 317-850-0726 <(317)%20850-0726> Phone
>
> 317-582-1773 <(317)%20582-1773> Fax
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 8:24 PM, David Demarest <
> dpdemarest at centurylink.net> wrote:
>
> Dear LNC Members:
>
>
>
> The following is a compendium of LNC Region 6 comments and polls regarding
> the LNC motion to remove Arvin Vohra from the LNC Vice-Chair position that
> were communicated to or discussed with me as the LNC Region 6
> Representative followed by a brief summary of my analysis and decision to
> vote NO on the removal motion:
>
>
>
> *Region 6:*
>
>
>
> · LNC Region 6 Representative David Pratt Demarest opposes the
> motion and has communicated his official opposition in detail to LNC
> members via the LNC Business List and via personal unofficial
> communications to the broader audience via Facebook, email and various
> other communication channels
>
>
>
> *Nebraska:*
>
>
>
> Poll requested by LPNE SCC Chair Scott Zimmerman:
>
>
>
> - Yes, I support removing him – 24
> - No, I think he should stay – 7 (including Region 6 Representative)
> - He should resign – 6
> - I don’t know/indifferent – 5
> - Warned not to do it again, and a motion passed that all [sic: LPNC]
> members are to stay away from controversy – 3
>
>
>
> Signed LPNE SCC member communications requested by Region 6 Representative
> David Pratt Demarest and reiterated by LPNE Chair Scott Zimmerman:
>
>
>
> - LPNE District 2 Coordinator Joe Hedlund: We need to be more mindful
> about what is said from our leadership, it can have very damaging
> consequences. Arvin did lots of damage to our party, he should be held
> accountable, as all of our top leaders should. Please consider that the LNC
> should write up some guidelines that our leaders could use in the future to
> avoid situations such as this one. These guidelines could be quite helpful
> so that we can avoid having these problems in the future, they could also
> be passed on to the people that are in charge of our social media. These
> guidelines may not be 100% foolproof, but at least they will be in writing,
> so that there may be a guide to aid them.
>
>
>
> - LPNE Chair Scott Zimmerman: I oppose the motion to remove Arvin. He
> used poor judgement in his choice of messaging. Additionally, he needs to
> understand that with his position as Vice Chairman of the Libertarian
> Party, comes the responsibility of speaking on behalf of the entire
> organization. I believe the delegates will decide Arvin's future level of
> involvement with the LP at the 2018 National Convention.
>
>
>
> *Illinois:*
>
>
>
> - Scott Schluter, Chairman, Southern Illinois Libertarian Party,
> Political Division Director, Libertarian Party of Illinois:
>
>
>
> I'm the Political Director of the Libertarian Party of Illinois. I am
> writing you concerning Vice-Chairman Vohra’s recent comments and attacks on
> social media of which I'm sure you're already aware. LPIL unanimously
> approved a motion to request the Vice-Chair's dismissal from the LNC. The
> letter we sent is attached. Region 6 Rep. David Demarest has informed me
> that he intends to vote "no" on the motion made by an LNC member regarding
> the Vice-Chair's dismissal. I respect his position and his right to vote
> how he sees fit. However, it is my desire that the other state affiliates
> in Region 6 will join Illinois in requesting our national leaders vote in
> defense of our tireless campaigning and recruitment efforts that the
> Vice-Chair has damaged. I hope that each of you considers this and look
> forward to seeing similar resolutions if you so choose. Thank you all very
> much for your time and consideration in this matter.
>
>
>
> Attached Letter without individual signatures:
>
>
>
> Dear LNC,
>
>
>
> The Libertarian Party of Illinois approves and recommends the immediate
> removal of LNC Vice-Chairman Arvin Vohra on the grounds that he is actively
> subverting our recruitment efforts and damaging the reputation of the
> Libertarian Party. By lobbing uncalled for attacks on our service members,
> Vice-Chairman Vohra has directly hurt our efforts to spread the message of
> liberty in Illinois. He has repeatedly called members of the U.S. military
> and veterans “immoral murderers”, “killers for hire”, and “accomplices to
> murder”. Our veterans and military make up a significant portion of LP
> voters. They know more than any of us exactly what monstrosities our
> government is capable of. It is for this reason that many of them turn to
> the LP and become some of the most active members in the liberty movement.
>
>
>
> In Illinois, we are in the middle of completely changing our party
> structure to comply with State law. To do this, we are attempting to
> recruit a high number of Libertarian Precinct Committeemen. It is a very
> daunting task and one that takes the work of every single volunteer hour we
> can muster. Vice-Chairman Vohra’s comments have made this goal more
> difficult. Our candidates, many of whom are veterans, are having to answer
> questions about why their party hates them. Free speech is not a license
> to say whatever you want without repercussions. The repercussions of
> Vice-Chairman Vohra’s words are being directly passed on to our recruiting
> and campaigning efforts.
>
>
>
> The Libertarian Party of Illinois is of the opinion that Vice-Chairman
> Vohra has violated The LNC Policy Manual Section 2.01 paragraph 4, which
> states, “All collective deprecation, whether alluding to sex, race, color,
> national origin, disability, age, religion, or any other protected
> category, must be avoided. Every person is a unique individual, and as the
> Libertarian Party is the Party of Individual Liberty, this injunction
> should doubly apply.”
>
>
>
> Vice-Chairman Vohra’s comments and insistence on repeating them without
> apology have put that much more of a burden on our already overworked
> volunteers, directors, and candidates. It is for these reasons that we
> recommend and expect the removal of Vice-Chairman Vohra from the LNC.
>
> Sincerely, State Organizing Committee, Libertarian Party of Illinois
>
>
>
> Iowa:
>
> - James Schneider, State Central Committee Chairman, Libertarian Party
> of Iowa:
>
> I have spoken about this in great detail with members of our state
> leadership day from the day of the first post from Mr. Vohra. I have read
> every post that Mr. Vohra has made, the comments under each of those posts,
> and as many parallel discussion threads as I can find. Last night I shared
> the resolution Illinois wrote and directly asked if we should issue a
> similar statement. About half of our team is neutral on this, expressing
> that individuals should voice their opinions on the matter how they see
> fit. The other half not only wants him to be removed, but that our state
> party should publicly distance ourselves from the national party. Not
> one Iowan from social media, our membership, or elected leadership in our
> has stated this behavior is something to be praised.
>
> The Iowa Party has made significant progress over the last 6 months, we
> have until next March to file, but we already have verbal commitments from
> 54 candidates to run in our first ever primary next year. Like Illinois,
> we will be heavily recruiting precinct captains attempting to fill all
> 1,681 precincts in the state for next year’s elections. This is an extreme
> challenge in rural areas where we might only have a half dozen people with
> their voter registration set as Libertarian. The actions of Mr. Vohra are
> severely damaging our efforts. Many of our largest donors were also very
> offended by his comment about donors. We were doing 4-5 radio interviews a
> week prior to this, and had to start declining these requests hoping that
> drama would blow over and we could continue speaking on positive growth and
> issues, not internal drama.
>
> In no way should the National Party be making things more difficult for
> state affiliates and individual campaigns. The purpose of a political
> party is to support candidates through the electoral process. Being
> tactful on discussing an issue is not the same as being dishonest, and I am
> personally offended by Mr. Vohra by him stating that we are ‘liars’ for not
> being as blunt as him. I campaigned full time last year and easily spoke
> with 10,000 potential voters one-on-one. I didn’t lie to a single one of
> them, and I did it without offending them.
>
> I personally believe that Mr. Vohra should resign from a position of
> leadership in the National Party and continue his efforts either in another
> type of liberty organization like a think tank, or if he chooses to remain
> affiliated with the party, be only a candidate. I have no issue with
> candidates being as radical and abrasive as they like, its easier for the
> public to accept that their opinions are their own, and the only volunteers
> that leave would be on his own campaign. But knowingly damaging other’s
> efforts is wrong. This behavior needs to stop, and end long before the
> next National Convention. I will continue to discuss with our leadership
> team and hopefully come to a conclusion before the end of the day.
>
> Unnamed Region 6 State:
>
> - I received an email in my official Region 6 Representative capacity
> that requested my approval of the removal motion accompanied with a request
> that the discussion be kept private. In the ensuing email discussion, the
> individual resorted to profanity and included an implied threat of email
> stalking. I communicated the threat to the state chair who agreed to speak
> to the individual. I have received no further communication from the
> individual who issued the threat.
>
> Summary:
>
> - I have received and exchanged a number of communications from
> interested parties in both my official and unofficial capacities that were
> not expressly intended for direct communication to the LNC. Most of them
> were sincere and a mixture of thoughtfulness on both sides from my personal
> perspective. The preponderance, particularly of the more strident
> communications from my personal perspective, favored approval of the
> removal motion. However, I also received a number of more measured
> responses that did not favor approval of the removal motion. A surprising
> number expressed agreement with my analysis of the philosophical merits of
> Arvin’s underlying logic but most expressed concerns about Arvin’s
> communication techniques.
>
>
>
> - I was initially offended by Arvin’s logical contentions but have
> come to realize that they represent perhaps the most serious challenge
> faced by the Libertarian Party and the LNC regarding how we individually
> deal with the overwhelming number of moral dilemmas imposed on both
> veterans and the rest of us by the government. Accordingly, I have
> speculated about the intent of Arvin’s swift kick in the pants as a
> necessary attention-getter to prevent this most important subject from
> being swept under the rug. However, that remains pure intuitive and
> unsubstantiated speculation on my part.
>
>
>
> - In conclusion, I have consistently expressed that I will always
> listen carefully and thoughtfully to all Region 6 input and will always
> vote my conscience as consistently reflected in my opposition to the
> removal motion.
>
> Respected LNC members: Let me know if you have any questions on the Region
> 6 input above and my intention to vote NO on the removal motion if it gains
> the necessary cosponsors. I will NOT cosponsor.
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
> ~David
>
>
>
> ~David Pratt Demarest
>
> LNC Region 6 Representative (IA, IL, MN, MO, ND, NE, WI)
>
> Secretary, LPNE State Central Committee
>
> Cell: 402-981-6469 <(402)%20981-6469>
>
> Home: 402-493-0873 <(402)%20493-0873>
>
>
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