[Lnc-business] cosponsors requested to have staff manage social media

Sun May 28 21:48:29 EDT 2017

An ES meeting can be called and a request can be made to Nick to request
its deletion.

-Caryn Ann

On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 7:39 PM Alicia Mattson <agmattson at gmail.com> wrote:

> Caryn Ann,
>
> I say lots of things at LNC meetings, but that doesn't mean that the LNC
> agreed to everything I said.
>
> So the volunteers, who are supposed to promote the Party on our Facebook
> page, can instead use the Party's public Facebook page and large audience
> to instead launch personal attacks...but because our email list is public
> and a smaller audience of insiders reads it, the LNC can't discuss the
> volunteer who did it?  Admins have deleted other posts in the past, but
> this one is still there.  There's not even a discussion of it in the closed
> LP Admins and Moderators group.  There's no private email list on which the
> board can address this since nobody else is going to.
>
> -Alicia
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 5:32 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Everyone, prior to last meeting and at last meeting when the issue of
>> potentially discussing specific volunteers came up, I mentioned it should
>> be in executive session, and though it was dicta, that seemed to be the
>> instruction of the Chair last meeting as well.
>>
>> When a formal request for dismissal or discipline is requested against
>> staff or volunteers, I do believe that is the proper approach, and thus
>> unless the Chair specifically instructs differently, I do not think this is
>> the place.
>>
>> -Caryn Ann
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 2:25 PM, Ken Moellman <lpky at mu-net.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I think the word people are searching for here is "accountability".
>>>
>>> ken
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 3:48 PM, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Candidates aren't, in some sense, staff of the party.  Candidates are
>>>> selected by either affiliates or, in 2 cases, the convention.  Volunteers
>>>> are, in some very broad sense, 'staff.'
>>>>
>>>> I'm probably more surprised than I should be that we're having a
>>>> conversation about this.  In a healthy organization, of course you can
>>>> express productive criticism of both board and management, in ways likely
>>>> to lead to changes in their actions.  On the other hand, in a healthy
>>>> organization, no one should expect to publicly make unfounded accusations
>>>> against board members, with absolutely no constructive component, and
>>>> remain employed.
>>>>
>>>> But I'm disappointed that we're discussing it for another reason.  I
>>>> think it is so far from proper corporate structure for a board to have a
>>>> discussion about an individual volunteer, or to be aware that such activity
>>>> is even going on, that it's hard to even form an opinion.  (Don't worry,
>>>> though, I managed.)  Boards making personnel decisions about people other
>>>> than the highest management-level employees is, in my view, poor form, and
>>>> not helpful.  This is something staff ought to have it completely within
>>>> their power and discretion to handle.  That's why I am cosponsoring a
>>>> motion on that very topic.
>>>>
>>>> In the meantime, it seems like it's going to take board action to do
>>>> what any other organization would do as a matter of course.
>>>>
>>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 2:02 PM, Arvin Vohra <votevohra at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Can someone explain how a volunteer criticizing a candidate is any
>>>>> different from a candidate criticizing an LNC member, if both identify
>>>>> themselves in ways that include their LP credibility? I have no problem
>>>>> with either, but it seems others do.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 9:05 AM, Sam Goldstein <
>>>>> goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course not, but internal criticism should be internal and not
>>>>>> posted
>>>>>> on public comment sites.  Or if it,  is the poster should not identify
>>>>>> him/herself as an official of the LP.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sam Goldstein
>>>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>> Member at Large
>>>>>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>>>>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>>>>> 317-850-0726 <(317)%20850-0726> Phone
>>>>>> 317-582-1773 <(317)%20582-1773> Fax
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 11:11 PM, Arvin Vohra <votevohra at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What on earth? Are we suggesting that only staff should be able to
>>>>>>> comment?? Or that now internal criticism is no longer allowed?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 27, 2017 9:02 PM, "Sam Goldstein" <goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is outrageous and would join Mr. Starr in requesting that Mr.
>>>>>>>> Barton immediately be
>>>>>>>> dismissed from any role in our social media platform.  Mr. Starr
>>>>>>>> has a long history of
>>>>>>>> service to the party, and while some members many not agree with
>>>>>>>> his stances or methods,
>>>>>>>> I don't think anyone on the current or past LNCs would refer to him
>>>>>>>> as a Republican.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sam Goldstein
>>>>>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>>>> Member at Large
>>>>>>>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>>>>>>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>>>>>>> 317-850-0726 <(317)%20850-0726> Phone
>>>>>>>> 317-582-1773 <(317)%20582-1773> Fax
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Aaron Starr <starrcpa at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Colleagues,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> While we are on the subject, earlier this week our staff posted
>>>>>>>>> this television news video clip on Facebook as an example of earned media
>>>>>>>>> by a candidate opposing a sewer tax increase and spearheading a recall
>>>>>>>>> effort against those elected officials who voted for that increase (
>>>>>>>>> https://www.lp.org/california-libertarian-interviewed-local-television-water-rate-increases/
>>>>>>>>> ).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please examine these screen shots (cropped to show only relevant
>>>>>>>>> portions). Note this comment:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> “Starr is a Republican pretending to be a Libertarian. Why he
>>>>>>>>> hangs out in the LP instead of just being a Republican (or joining the
>>>>>>>>> Constitution Party) is beyond me. This is a dude who regularly tries to use
>>>>>>>>> soft bribes to get his way in the party. Please, LP members of his region,
>>>>>>>>> vote this guy out. We don’t need him and folks like him. Not at all.”
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Josh Barton, Social Media Volunteer at Libertarian Party
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don’t believe I have ever met Josh Barton. When I hover over his
>>>>>>>>> name with my mouse I see that his Facebook profile states he is one of our
>>>>>>>>> party’s social media volunteers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It’s one thing to disagree with someone over public policy
>>>>>>>>> (perhaps Mr. Barton favors the Oxnard City Council’s sewer tax increase);
>>>>>>>>> it’s quite another to lash out with this personal attack.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I understand we get some negative feedback from the public, but
>>>>>>>>> should we tolerate that from those who are part of the organizational
>>>>>>>>> structure? Who here believes that it is appropriate for someone touting
>>>>>>>>> himself as a social media volunteer for the party to be posting something
>>>>>>>>> like this on our Facebook page as a representative of the Party?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Our staff would never post a comment such as this. They are
>>>>>>>>> accountable to the LNC and have a stake in our organization’s overall
>>>>>>>>> success, which makes them largely above the factionalism and personality
>>>>>>>>> conflicts we witness with some volunteers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When you agree to wear the party hat, you’ve agreed to a certain
>>>>>>>>> fiduciary duty to the organization.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If I were the National Chair, I would without hesitation order the
>>>>>>>>> deletion of such an offensive comment and (absent a sincere public apology)
>>>>>>>>> would likely fire any volunteer (or member of staff) who wrote anything on
>>>>>>>>> our Facebook page like this about any of our candidates or board members.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Aaron Starr
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (805) 583-3308 Home
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (805) 404-8693 Mobile
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> starrcpa at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] *On
>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of *Sam Goldstein
>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, May 26, 2017 7:03 PM
>>>>>>>>> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] cosponsors requested to have staff
>>>>>>>>> manage social media
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Alicia,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, my concern is that the LNC needs a supervisory presence on
>>>>>>>>> social media beyond the limited ability of
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the APRC.  Ultimately, it is the LNC, not staff, that is
>>>>>>>>> responsible to the members and delegates in convention
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> for the public image of the party.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sam Goldstein
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Member at Large
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 317-850-0726 <(317)%20850-0726> Phone
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 317-582-1773 <(317)%20582-1773> Fax
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 9:48 PM, Alicia Mattson <
>>>>>>>>> agmattson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sam,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So is your desire to just have LNC members/alternates in a
>>>>>>>>> supervisory role, or in the role of posting public comment?  If it's just a
>>>>>>>>> supervisory role, I don't think it should be our job to do that, but I'm
>>>>>>>>> okay with allowing such access to the page.  But I'm not sure I want LNC
>>>>>>>>> members/alternates making the postings instead of staff.  If a 4th
>>>>>>>>> co-sponsor was interested with some tweaks, we could hash out some
>>>>>>>>> alternate language.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Alicia
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Alicia
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 6:00 AM, Sam Goldstein <
>>>>>>>>> goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Alicia,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Would you consider adding "members and alternates"  to your motion
>>>>>>>>> following "LNC"?  If so I will
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> co-sponsor.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sam Goldstein
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Member at Large
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 317-850-0726 <(317)%20850-0726> Phone
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 317-582-1773 <(317)%20582-1773> Fax
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 8:38 AM, Alicia Mattson <
>>>>>>>>> agmattson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm asking for co-sponsors for a motion to insert a new Policy
>>>>>>>>> Manual Section 2.06.5 Social Media to read as follows:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Only LNC employees and contractors shall serve as administrators
>>>>>>>>> of, serve as moderators of, or post content to, the Party’s social media
>>>>>>>>> accounts. Volunteer content creators may submit content for
>>>>>>>>> approval.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> At the LNC meeting there was majority support for the motion to
>>>>>>>>> both do the above and also to create a committee to review our social media
>>>>>>>>> processes.  I could have supported it, but if we know what we need to do to
>>>>>>>>> fix the problem, why spend the time to have a committee study it first?
>>>>>>>>> Just fix it.  I thought there was majority support for the other motion to
>>>>>>>>> simply turn control of our social media back over to staff.  Turns out that
>>>>>>>>> I was mistaken, and one person was not willing to turn control back over to
>>>>>>>>> staff without the creation of the committee, so then the other motion
>>>>>>>>> failed.  Because I misread the room, an option that actually had majority
>>>>>>>>> support didn't pass.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Now that we have separately created the committee, I want to go
>>>>>>>>> back and re-visit turning control back over to our staff.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please note that the motion welcomes volunteers to submit
>>>>>>>>> material.  It does not eliminate their opportunity to contribute.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I want to add some details to the discussion we had in Pittsburgh,
>>>>>>>>> with two Facebook PR blow-ups on our minds at the time.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Since Pittsburgh, we have had yet another PR disaster.  Granted it
>>>>>>>>> was not on our official FB page, but on the personal page it was posted to,
>>>>>>>>> the person's party position was touted right there in the sidebar, and we
>>>>>>>>> took a lot of damage from it.  The Convention Oversight Committee lost two
>>>>>>>>> very valuable volunteers over this latest disaster -- volunteers who did a
>>>>>>>>> lot of work for us in Orlando and were again helping for New Orleans.  Gone.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There are no group votes before volunteers post on the party's
>>>>>>>>> FB.  One person puts it into the schedule, and unless someone else sees it
>>>>>>>>> and objects, it goes public.  We publish so much material that the APRC
>>>>>>>>> doesn't always have time to review everything in advance.  Though the group
>>>>>>>>> has an informal rule against people posting their own material, people
>>>>>>>>> sometimes do it anyway.  The comments about the military could easily have
>>>>>>>>> been posted on our page.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There was a very recent incident in which a new volunteer was
>>>>>>>>> driven to quit on the same day she joined for the crime of suggesting that
>>>>>>>>> we post more positive material and less negative material.  I don't want to
>>>>>>>>> hear that the LNC giving final control to staff is somehow disrespecting
>>>>>>>>> the work of the volunteers, when that new volunteer's desire to contribute
>>>>>>>>> was so summarily disrespected.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We have some important policies that I don't believe the
>>>>>>>>> volunteers have even been informed about, and volunteers are not really
>>>>>>>>> accountable for following policies in the same way that our staff is.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Policy Manual Section 2.09.6:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Party resources shall not be used to provide information or
>>>>>>>>> services for any candidate for party office unless:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    - such information or services are available and announced on
>>>>>>>>>       an equal basis to all Libertarians who have declared they are seeking that
>>>>>>>>>       office, or
>>>>>>>>>       - such information or services are generally available and
>>>>>>>>>       announced to all party member
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not all party members have access to post on our Facebook page.
>>>>>>>>> Not all candidates for internal party office are offered the chance to post
>>>>>>>>> on our Facebook page.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think some of our Facebook posts cross the line into personal
>>>>>>>>> promotion of people who intend to run for internal party office at the next
>>>>>>>>> convention.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There was a time in the past when staff established criteria to
>>>>>>>>> try to manage application of this policy, with criteria for what
>>>>>>>>> constituted "news" or "earned media" that involved a candidate, etc.  I
>>>>>>>>> don't believe there is any such attention to his policy right now for our
>>>>>>>>> social media.  Some candidates have already declared.  The closer we get to
>>>>>>>>> a national convention, the more these posts will be perceived as
>>>>>>>>> self-promotion that unfairly isn't available to their opponents.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So I'm asking for co-sponsors for this motion, to return final
>>>>>>>>> decision power to our staff, who are expected to know and follow our
>>>>>>>>> policies, and who are accountable to the LNC.  The volunteer groups can
>>>>>>>>> continue to generate material just like they do now, but staff would
>>>>>>>>> schedule the actual posts.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If the Social Media Process Review Committee comes back to us with
>>>>>>>>> suggestions for reasonable ways to manage this later, we can amend this
>>>>>>>>> policy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Alicia
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Arvin Vohra
>>>>>
>>>>> www.VoteVohra.com
>>>>> VoteVohra at gmail.com
>>>>> (301) 320-3634
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *In Liberty,*
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>
>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>> *We defend your rights*
>> *And oppose the use of force*
>> *Taxation is theft*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>
-- 
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee

A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
*We defend your rights*
*And oppose the use of force*
*Taxation is theft*
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