[Lnc-business] LP commentary on Trump/Comey/etc.?

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

Starchild, excellent.

Our message isn't merely we had two governors, we will restore competence
and integrity - nearly every political salesman will promise that.  There's
nothing in those claims that are uniquely Libertarian though we would say
we actually mean them.

Our message always should center around the Libertarian core of
self-ownership and non-aggression.  How can we tie those two concepts that
nearly everyone knows intuitively to bring people into the Libertarian
spectrum?

-Caryn Ann


On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 6:23 AM David Demarest <dpdemarest at centurylink.net>
wrote:

> Starchild,
>
>
>
> You hit the nail on the head. Trump’s ‘national interest’, and nationalism
> in general, are thinly-disguised justifications for the use of force
> against both citizens and non-citizens to serve the irrational
> self-interest of those in positions of authority at the expense of the rest
> of us. Trumps oppressive use of nationalism begs the following questions:
>
>
>
>    - Why do we let authorities get away with nationalism-justified abuses?
>
>
>
>    - What do we have to do to put a stop to authoritarian
>    nationalism-justified abuses?
>
>
>
>    - What would happen to these nationalism-justified abuses if we
>    focused our Libertarian efforts instead on moving government overreach
>    functions back into the private sector where they belong?
>
>
>
> Note: This alternative political, economic and societal focus should be
> something that Voluntaryists, Anarchists, Minarchists and big ‘L’/little
> ‘l’ Libertarians can all agree on as a positive way to move toward our
> diversity of end goals.
>
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
> ~David
>
>
>
> *2018 Omaha Roads to Liberty Un-Convention*
>
>
>
> ~David Pratt Demarest
>
> LNC Region 6 Representative (IA, IL, MN, MO, ND, NE, WI)
>
> Secretary, LPNE State Central Committee
>
> Cell:      402-981-6469
>
> Home: 402-493-0873
>
>
>
> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Starchild
> *Sent:* Friday, June 09, 2017 3:39 AM
> *To:* Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com>; lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] LP commentary on Trump/Comey/etc.?
>
>
>
>
> Joshua,
>
>      I don't disagree with you regarding any of Donald Trump's negative
> qualities as you present them here, though I don't believe they are a
> *new* image for him. As low a bar as "normal" politicians set when it
> comes to character, Trump has set a new low. However I must differ on some
> of your framing and conclusions. On a policy level, the problem with Trump
> isn't that he fails to defend the "national interest", it's that he *fails
> to defend the Constitution and maintains or initiates violations of
> people's individual rights and freedom*. Indeed, I think he focuses *too
> much* on the "national interest", and that this *enables* the abuses by
> allowing him to be seen – perhaps by himself as well as by others – as a
> patriotic leader, despite his blatant self-dealing. As writer C.S. Lewis
> observed,
>
> *“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its
> victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber
> barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty
> may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those
> who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so
> with the approval of their own conscience.*"
>
>      Trump is not very ideological, but to the extent he does have an
> ideology, it is clearly American nationalism. Nationalism is a form of
> collectivism, like racism, sexism, and homophobia, and is antithetical to
> libertarianism and its valuing of individual rights. When we use language
> like "our foreign policy" and "our interests here at home", we are
> reinforcing that ideology and further empowering the national governments
> that rely upon it and which are the primary instruments of oppression in
> the world. As Libertarians, "our interest" is freedom! Specifically,
> worldwide freedom in our lifetimes – not American nationalism.
>
>      You write that "Our theme should be - restore competence, restore
> trust, restore integrity." But the U.S. government, like other current
> governments, is based on coercion and violence. It has no integrity, and we
> should be thankful that this institution which is systematically violating
> people's rights is *not* more competent! We should be thankful that
> people *don't *trust it! If we want safety and security, our agenda must
> be, and is, to reduce its power. Toward that end, we use themes like
> "minimum government, maximum freedom" to emphasize our commitment to
> radical change, and "the party of principle" to emphasize our commitment to
> integrity and contrast it with the State's lack of integrity. *Those* are
> themes on which the Democrats and Republicans cannot run effectively!
>
>     As White House occupants go, Donald Trump may be unprecedented in his
> boorishiness, pettiness, and colossal ego. But he is not unprecedented in
> actively colluding with hostile foreign powers, being dishonest, waging
> unconstitutional wars, engaging in patronage politics, using the office to
> advance his personal interests, violating the Constitution left and right,
> etc. We want voters to understand that such abuses are not due to one very
> rotten apple, but *endemic to the system as it exists*, so that they will
> be better prepared to resist *any* administration abusing its powers, any
> Congress seeking to tax and spend more, etc. How do we "play off the
> negative image of Trump" to advance *that* understanding?
>
> Love & Liberty,
>
>                               ((( starchild )))
> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>                     RealReform at earthlink.net
>                             (415) 625-FREE
>                                @StarchildSF
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua Katz
> Sent: Jun 8, 2017 9:42 PM
> To: Starchild , lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] If you need commentary
>
> I don't have a lot of time to write tonight since I've gotten home late.
> Here, briefly, is what I see from the LP perspective.
>
>
>
> First, the image of Trump that emerged.  You might know that Bill Cosby's
> trial is going on.  I think there are issues with that prosecution, but
> that's another story.  I remember hearing an interview with him a few years
> ago that, I think, really sealed his guilt in many people's minds.  He
> didn't admit a thing - instead, in response to questions about his
> behavior, he said something to the effect of, if the reporter valued his
> career and his future, he wouldn't ask those questions, and he'd delete
> that tape.  That is exactly what I felt when I heard Comey talk about what
> Trump "hoped" for, and, regardless of how it plays in court, I think it
> played that way for many, many people.
>
>
>
> The image of Trump is a President entirely indifferent to the success of
> his country, interested only in building his brand, thinking only about how
> his position plays into his personal wealth, and approaching foreign policy
> like a middle-schooler choosing friends.  Now, you might object that other
> politicians do the same thing.  I don't think they do, but it's irrelevant
> - the voters don't see other politicians that way.  Trump let himself be
> seen.
>
>
>
> His voters wanted someone who cares about them.  They elected a man who
> cares only for himself - whose mind the national interest never seems to
> cross.  Whether he's turning FBI directors into loyal servants (or at least
> trying), whispering creepily in their ears, or turning our foreign policy
> in favor of brutal dictators because they play with him while the leaders
> of democratic nations are mean to him (the Kaiser suffered from much the
> same treatment, and based some of his foreign policy decisions on people
> calling him "wet Willy" when he went to Britain for a funeral) it's all
> about him, all the time.
>
>
>
> So let's see.  What reasons do people give, exactly, for putting Trump,
> not Johnson, in the White House?  Let's count off the usual complaints
> about Libertarians:
>
>
>
> Safety and security.  Are we safer with a President who actively colluded
> with a hostile foreign power, led by an autocrat?  Ignore our position for
> a moment, and focus on them.  If you want safety, this is not how you get
> it.  How do you get it?  An experienced team of Governors approaching
> foreign policy as realists, not neocons, and not for personal
> aggrandizement.  (It is revealing, by the way, to read what Carrol Quigley
> had to say about the Orthodox and Western civilizations in the 1970's, and
> to think about what Putin is trying to do now.  I think he's trying to
> rebuild the Russian Empire, and the United States is paving the way for him
> through our inept policy.  Consider the mess in Qatar last week.)
>
>
>
> "National interest/America First."  Has he put America first?  He most
> assuredly has not.  He has made decisions about trade with the goal of
> benefiting Russia's position in the world.  He is allowing Russia to set
> the terms of Asian trade.  He actively engages with nations that harm our
> interests, and he harms our interests here at home to enrich himself and
> his family.  No one can get away any longer with saying that free trade and
> open immigration harm our national interest, when this is the alternative.
>
>
>
> What's left?  "What's Aleppo" and "he stuck his tongue out."  And every
> time those who played up those moments, the media, complain about what a
> monster we are saddled with, they should be nicely (and indirectly) asked
> to justify the idea that forgetting the name of a city in Syria, or
> sticking your tongue out to make a point (or that heart attack thing), were
> worse.  This is a monster of their creation, and the only serious
> challenger was purposefully sidelined.
>
>
>
> Our theme should be - restore competence, restore trust, restore
> integrity.  The Democrats can't run on that effectively, they're too busy
> worrying that they didn't do enough for coal workers, the less educated,
> Bernie Sanders fans, and the intolerant left.  They can't possibly please
> all those constituencies, but they certainly can't position themselves as
> the opposite of this small, sniveling child in the White House, this creep
> who sees nothing but personal gain.
>
>
>
> We don't need to talk about the testimony, we just play off the negative
> image of Trump that was created, in a way that we can and they can't.
>
>
>
> Paul Ryan says we should cut him a break because he's new at this.  The
> world won't wait.  Who could hit the ground running, and know already about
> operating with integrity, about not seeking personal loyalty from law
> enforcement?  Two Governors.
>
>
>
> Granted, the campaign is over, and we shouldn't talk directly about
> Johnson/Weld because that's not an alternative we're putting forward any
> more.  But it can form a theme for how we approach the Republican party
> when we need to address them in the media.  They're unprepared, they're
> selfish, they use political positions for personal patronage.  Again, you
> might think all politicians do, but this is what the voter is thinking
> right now.  Find ways to turn what they're thinking to our advantage.  Who
> won't sell off the office?  We won't.  Who won't use office to pursue a
> personal agenda?  We won't.  Who will approach foreign policy by seeking
> those things that maximize freedom and avoid war, rather than soothe the
> ego of the leader?  We will.
>
>
> Joshua A. Katz
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 7:30 PM, Starchild <sfdreamer at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>     Ha ha ha... nice one, Sam.    :-)   Reminds me of how I got Facebook
> way back in the '90s – when I fell asleep while studying.
>
>      On a more serious note, what do you think the LP ought to be saying
> about James Comey's testimony, Joshua (or others)? What the pro-freedom
> angle is doesn't seem immediately obvious to me, as the situation is fluid
> and politically complex and there are bad actors on both sides. Is it that
> Trump has lied about the content of his discussion with Comey and tried to
> get the FBI director to stop his agency's investigation of General Michael
> Flynn? I think those things are probably true. Like his predecessors, Trump
> deserves to be impeached for various actions including his unconstitutional
> anti-immigration measures, but is this the best way for that to happen?
>
>      I think the president firing the FBI director before the conclusion
> of his informal 10-year term in office was constitutionally legal, and to
> my mind a positive precedent. As I heard one commentator observing today,
> having an "independent" FBI director isn't necessarily so great – J. Edgar
> Hoover was a very independent FBI director. I'd rather see any
> investigations pointing toward the Oval Office conducted by truly
> independent prosecutors not appointed by the occupant of the White House,
> not by somebody like the head of the FBI or the attorney general, who
> serves at the president's pleasure. Interestingly, Trump's relationship
> with attorney general Jeff Sessions has reportedly been frosty since March,
> when Sessions – who is no friend of freedom either – without first
> notifying Trump, recused himself from any investigation of collusion with
> "the Russians" (read: the Putin regime).
>
>      I've also heard reporting to the effect that members of Congress are
> afraid to go up against the intelligence agencies, because they've got
> stuff on everybody. That would be a particularly scary and unacceptable
> situation. And supposedly all 17 of those intelligence agencies were in
> agreement that "the Russians" were trying to tamper with the U.S. election.
> What is their evidence, one wonders, and if there's such unanimity among
> them (somewhat troubling in itself), why hasn't it been produced?
>
>      Then there is this damning recently declassified report on the
> agencies' unconstitutional spying during the Obama administration –
> http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/2253658-declassified-top-secret-report-details-spying-on-americans/
> . Its contents seem perhaps more worthy of LP comment than the media
> firestorm over the Comey testimony and related matters – although if we do
> comment, I hope the point will be made that the spying is almost certainly
> continuing under Trump, as he has not taken any steps to stop it or to hold
> anyone accountable for it that I'm aware of, and has exhibited a
> frightening tendency to praise authoritarian leaders, from Putin to the
> Philippines' Rodrigo Duterte, whose draconian anti-drug crusade has caused
> thousands of murders, but according to Trump is doing a "great job".
>
> Love & Liberty,
>
>                                ((( starchild )))
> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>                       RealReform at earthlink.net
>                              (415) 625-FREE
>                                @StarchildSF
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sam Goldstein
> Sent: Jun 8, 2017 7:58 AM
> To: lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] If you need commentary
>
> I hear live tweeting from my open windows in the Spring.  Otherwise, not
> much.
>
>
>
> Sam
>
>
> Sam Goldstein
>
> Libertarian National Committee
>
> Member at Large
>
> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>
> Indianapolis IN 46260
>
> 317-850-0726 <(317)%20850-0726> Phone
>
> 317-582-1773 <(317)%20582-1773> Fax
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 10:54 AM, Whitney Bilyeu <whitneycb76 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> What am I missing here?
>
>
>
> Whitney
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 9:24 AM, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I'm not live tweeting, but I'll be tweeting anything major and commenting.
> Feel free to use. Can't promise I'll catch things since I'm arty work. I
> think it's important we be on top of this.
>
>
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>
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>
>
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>
-- 
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee

A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
*We defend your rights*
*And oppose the use of force*
*Taxation is theft*
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