[Lnc-business] Convention Oversight Committee Housekeeping

Thu Jun 29 12:33:00 EDT 2017

I think the simplest idea might be best. Just make it 5 lnc, 3 non. If we
or a later lnc want to change it back, we will. That addresses all concerns
I've seen, I think. I'd cosponsor something to that effect, once I see the
language.
On Jun 29, 2017 11:28 AM, "Daniel Hayes" <danielehayes at icloud.com> wrote:

> Alicia,
>
> Your points are well taken as are Joshua's.  I had thought of many of the
> concerns raised but until it gets out there for everyone to kick the tires
> on, you just don't know how people will respond.  I think dividing the
> question is probably the way to go.  We haven't heard a big out cry one way
> or the other. So let me dig something up here and let it rip.
>
>
> Daniel Hayes
> LNC At Large Member
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 28, 2017, at 7:31 PM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I don't know that the COC will be taking earth-shattering votes on July
> 3rd.  Maybe there's something bigger on the horizon than I'm thinking, but
> I think we'd be okay even if Erin were only technically participating as a
> volunteer for that one meeting.
>
> -Alicia
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Sam Goldstein <goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> I agree with Alicia's responses above and am OK with her proposed change
>> to the
>> policy manual.  This is a matter of some urgency since the next COC
>> meeting be
>> on July 3rd.
>>
>> Sam
>>
>> Sam Goldstein
>> Libertarian National Committee
>> Member at Large
>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>> 317-850-0726 <(317)%20850-0726> Phone
>> 317-582-1773 <(317)%20582-1773> Fax
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 8:11 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Alicia makes very good points.
>>>
>>> It seems to really matter in some committees and not as critical in
>>> others.
>>>
>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 6:09 PM Alicia Mattson <agmattson at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm not in favor of a general rule which says that once an appointment
>>>> is made, it is good for the duration of the term even if eligibility
>>>> changes in the meantime.
>>>>
>>>> Consider the Employment Policy and Compensation Committee.  Our policy
>>>> makes the LNC Chair ineligible to serve.  Suppose a Chair is hit by the
>>>> proverbial bus.  Suppose the person chosen to fill the Chair vacancy was
>>>> previously appointed to the EPCC.  Having the Chair (staff supervisor)
>>>> serve on the EPCC could be a problem.  Suppose the new Chair asks staff to
>>>> violate some policies.  The EPCC is the entity that the staff should
>>>> contact in such a situation, but now their boss is on the EPCC, so they're
>>>> not going to do that.
>>>>
>>>> Consider the Executive Committee.  The 4 officers are ex-officio
>>>> members of the ExComm.  Suppose an officer resigns.  Do we want that person
>>>> to continue to serve on the ExComm, though they're no longer on the LNC?
>>>>
>>>> There are probably other examples as well that could be problematic.
>>>> Let's just address the situation at hand and not monkey with the system
>>>> further.
>>>>
>>>> -Alicia
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 11:53 AM, David Demarest <
>>>> dprattdemarest at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> From a common sense perspective, I will support the proposal for
>>>>> adding a provision that a subsequent LNC status change would not affect a
>>>>> prior Committee appointment for the duration of the committee appointment
>>>>> term.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 28, 2017 1:40 PM, "Joshua Katz" <planning4liberty at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there a particular reason we couldn't fix it this way, by email?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Daniel Hayes <
>>>>>> danielehayes at icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also, the reason for not waiting till August is we will possibly be
>>>>>>> having some very substantive votes before the August LNC meeting and I
>>>>>>> would rather have the full COC able to legally vote.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Daniel Hayes
>>>>>>> LNC At Large Member
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2017, at 1:29 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would be in favour of that.  Often times person who will end up
>>>>>>> filling LNC vacancies are those involved already somewhere and showing
>>>>>>> leadership.  I don't think we should be removing those people from
>>>>>>> consideration to fill a remaining term or making the other committees
>>>>>>> suffer.  The spirit of the rule is to make a good faith to diversify
>>>>>>> positions, but having a crystal ball shouldn't be part of it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So I would support.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Caryn Ann
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 12:24 PM, Daniel Hayes <
>>>>>>> danielehayes at icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Caryn Ann,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I was actually considering broaching that change for the meeting in
>>>>>>>> Kansas City.  I think we should add a provision that if you are on a
>>>>>>>> committee and your status changes by becoming LNC or Alternate or other
>>>>>>>> such shift like being one of the regional reps on the ASC and you end up
>>>>>>>> appointed as in an At Large position, you maintain your position on the
>>>>>>>> committee for the duration of that term.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Daniel Hayes
>>>>>>>> LNC At Large Member
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2017, at 1:09 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I prefer the second.  And wouldn't there be a different threshold?
>>>>>>>> If we are going to over-ride the policy manual  - we do it the right way by
>>>>>>>> editing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think perhaps this brings up something that might need to be a
>>>>>>>> permanent change - when people end up on the LNC but were not when they
>>>>>>>> were appointed.  I would be amenable to looking at something on that route
>>>>>>>> too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 12:00 PM, Daniel Hayes <
>>>>>>>> danielehayes at icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We find ourselves with a bit a problem that needs fixing.  The
>>>>>>>>> policy manual defines the Convention Oversight Committee as follows:  "Four
>>>>>>>>> LNC Members or Alternates, plus 3 non-LNC members who are recommended by
>>>>>>>>> the Convention Oversight Committee"  "LNC members selected by the LNC,
>>>>>>>>> non-LNC members selected by the LNC Chair".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Erin Adams has moved from being a non-LNC member to being a LNC
>>>>>>>>> Alternate.  I have two alternatives on how to do it.  I highly value Erin's
>>>>>>>>> work ethic and contribution to the COC and wish to keep her as a full
>>>>>>>>> voting member of the committee.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> First, we could just do the following:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Move to ratify Erin Adams, Whitney Bilyeu, William Brackeen, Sam
>>>>>>>>> Goldstein, Daniel Hayes, Alicia Mattson, and BetteRose Ryan as members of
>>>>>>>>> the Convention Oversight Committee for the current term, notwithstanding
>>>>>>>>> any rules in the LNC Policy Manual."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I included all the names because if we ratified one person but not
>>>>>>>>> the others, that might create some other problem.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This following option is a bit messier but more certain:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Move to amend the chart in the LNC policy manual section 1.03 to
>>>>>>>>> define the size of the Convention Oversight Committee as,
>>>>>>>>> 'Seven members composed of up to five LNC Members or Alternates,
>>>>>>>>> plus up to three non-LNC members who are recommended by the Convention
>>>>>>>>> Oversight Committee.';
>>>>>>>>> to sunset upon expiration of the current COC term and to ratify
>>>>>>>>> Erin Adams' position as a member of the Convention Oversight Committee."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My reason for the "up to" language is because life has a funny way
>>>>>>>>> of throwing us twists.  IF for some reason a LNC member of the COC were to
>>>>>>>>> vacate their seat before the end of their term, I would expect us to
>>>>>>>>> restore the composition to 4 LNC and 3 non LNC members of the COC. The
>>>>>>>>> sunset is there to restore the original intent once this term is over.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am not seeking co-sponsors for either motion yet, as I am
>>>>>>>>> checking a sense of the body to see which route we prefer to use.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Daniel Hayes
>>>>>>>>> LNC At Large Member
>>>>>>>>> LNC COC Vice-Chair
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>>>>> *We defend your rights*
>>>>>>>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>>>>>>> *Taxation is theft*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>>>> *We defend your rights*
>>>>>>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>>>>>> *Taxation is theft*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>
>>> --
>>> *In Liberty,*
>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>
>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>> *We defend your rights*
>>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>> *Taxation is theft*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>
>
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