[Lnc-business] LNC Meeting Costs

[Ken Moellman]

Based on the chart included above, it appears that the cheapest option is
to have more meetings at the Residence Inn in VA near the office.  I would
not be opposed to more meetings there.

ken

On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 2:49 AM, Starchild <sfdreamer at earthlink.net> wrote:

>
> Thank you Wes, the spreadsheet is very helpful! I was afraid that when I
> did finally receive information on this, it might be incomplete, expenses
> lumped together in broad catch-all categories, difficult to read, or
> otherwise requiring more follow-up, but this chart looks pretty clean and
> straightforward for the time period covered (2011 to 2014), although it
> does appear that a couple meetings which took place in 2013 are not
> included, as only one meeting is listed for that year. Nevertheless, this
> is substantially what I was looking for. It does raise a question in my
> mind though of why Robert couldn't have sent me this document when I first
> asked him about meeting expense data, since it is several years old and not
> I presume something that was just created recently. But I won't dwell on
> that at this point.
>
> More of interest, *the total per meeting costs are higher than I had been
> led to believe. The average cost of an LNC meeting is listed as $4,844,
> whereas the number Robert previously mentioned to me was $2,500 per
> meeting.* Admittedly, he may not have been including some elements of the
> total cost, such as staff travel, in that lower figure. But not having any
> better data, I subsequently cited the $2500 number repeatedly as an overall
> per meeting cost estimate, I'm pretty sure both in meetings and via email,
> without him or anybody else correcting me (I do have a vague recollection
> of at least one person telling me in conversation not during a meeting that
> they thought the cost was higher, but that might have been somebody not on
> the LNC). It appears that either the rest of the LNC has been as ignorant
> as myself of the real costs, or the misinformation of that incorrect lower
> number was simply allowed to go unchallenged.
>
> I am glad to hear you say that staff has no requirement for expensive
> meetings. I've repeatedly gotten the sense that Robert prefers them,
> although I don't recall that he's ever said so in so many words. My own
> view more than ever is that there is definite room for savings in these
> numbers, both on the LNC side (pay for our own food and beverages, meet in
> less posh venues than hotel conference rooms), and on the staff side (it
> seems to me that we shouldn't need to take more than one staff member, at
> most, away from the Alexandria office to fly them to a meeting and put them
> up in a hotel for the weekend, when the LNC can always have a staff member
> call in to the meeting if needed, as we often do with our attorney, our FEC
> consultant, and other individuals. Even if we paid a staff member two day's
> wages just to be "on call" for the weekend for when we might want to reach
> them by phone, the cost to the party would be considerably less than flying
> the person across the country and paying for a hotel room.
>
> Also glad to hear you say that there's nothing particularly secret about
> the venue meeting contracts, although it's really more the cost data than
> the contracts that I'm after with regard to meeting room contracts. A
> hotel's "request" for "confidentiality" certainly doesn't sound like a
> legally binding condition of secrecy imposed upon us however (if they're
> *demanding* secrecy as a contract clause, we should be informed of that
> before signing, but that seems unlikely, and I think our standard
> negotiating position should be "we don't do secrecy"). In any case,
> contracts have sometimes been sent out to this public email list or
> disclosed during regular LNC meetings that are open to the public, so
> shouldn't normally require any kind of written contract to pass along. If a
> majority of the LNC feels a particular contract, or parts of it, should be
> kept secret, as with the 2016 contract with the Johnson/Weld campaign has
> been (until this September, if I recall correctly), it seems to me we can
> address that on a case-by-case basis. I do appreciate you sending the
> contracts (which I have yet to review) for our two upcoming meetings.
>
> Regarding other past meeting room costs (from 2014-2017) I'm not in a
> particular rush to see that data, although I would like to see it at some
> point in the next few months. Going further back, I'd also like to know if
> there are records of free meeting spaces that have been used for LNC
> meetings, and if so where they were. Of course originally there was David
> Nolan's living room, and if it was good enough for our founders, well! But
> even after the LNC got started and had like 25 people showing up to
> meetings, I'll bet they sometimes met in spaces they didn't pay for. Going
> forward, the important thing to me is that we see prior to each meeting the
> estimated costs for various proposed sites, broken down as they are in the
> spreadsheet, before we make any final decision on where to meet.
>
> Love & Liberty,
>
>                                     ((( starchild )))
> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>                          RealReform at earthlink.net
>                                  (415) 625-FREE
>                                    @StarchildSF
>
> P.S. – Someone gave me an excellent suggestion recently, which is that we
> look into renting a whole house on AirBnB or another homesharing service
> for LNC meetings. In Kansas City, for instance, we could have rented this
> place, which I found in just a few minutes:
>
>
> https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/19641293?location=Kansas%
> 20City&check_in=2017-08-19&check_out=2017-08-20&s=UkpxykRA
>
> At $419 per night and 8 beds, we could have 8 people sleeping there at the
> affordable price of around $50 per person, and it would basically cover the
> meeting space with a cost of $0 to the LP. Now it does say "no
> parties/events" but I suspect if we'd told them what we had in mind, they'd
> be fine with it. I think we should look for options like this before
> spending thousands to be at a hotel.
>
>
>
> On Jul 13, 2017, at 1:51 PM, Wes Benedict wrote:
>
> Starchild,
>
> If I thought this information would be useful for an upcoming decision,
> I'd make sure we bumped other things back and moved this forward.
>
> Robert has kept a spreadsheet detailing the LNC meeting costs. It's
> significantly out of date and will take time to update.
>
> If I get a sense from a significant number on the LNC that it is important
> enough for us to stop other work and get that spreadsheet updated, we could
> certainly do that.
>
> Or, if the LNC would be satisfied to get a list of meetings from the past
> just to get a sense of the costs, Robert has provided that and it's
> attached.
>
> I don't personally see much coming from providing that information
> urgently, but again, we could certainly get it done if it was a top
> priority.
>
> In general, staff has usually included in our suggestions and research
> low-cost options like Oklahoma and Alexandria, and the LNC has chosen
> places that were not the lowest cost options staff has provided. I point
> that out, because I want to make it clear that, if the costs of LNC
> meetings is your concern, I don't want our membership or the LNC to think
> that staff requires expensive meetings. We go with the flow of the LNC. Of
> the 5 to 10 times I've suggested a specific location for an LNC meeting, I
> don't think the LNC has taken my suggestion. I don't mind. I've thought
> most of the places we've had meetings were reasonably decided.
>
> I think Robert has shown many of the contracts to you in person when
> you've visited LPHQ.
>
> I believe Robert has offered to email all the contracts to you if you sign
> the standard Non-Disclosure Agreement. I believe you have so far chosen not
> to sign the non-disclosure agreement for certain reasons that you're in a
> better situation to explain than me. It's not a big deal to me personally,
> just has been our practice related to contracts.
>
> I don't think there's anything especially interesting or "secret" in any
> of the contracts we've had with hotels to have LNC meetings. Payments to
> hotels can be found in detail on the FEC website.
>
> I think sometimes vendors offer "discounts" and sometimes put in their
> contracts terms requesting confidentiality, but I'm not going to go through
> and dig up a bunch of contracts to see for myself unless I get a sense from
> the LNC that that is what they want staff to spend time on.
>
> If the LNC could pass a motion requesting staff to provide all the LNC
> meeting contracts to Starchild and other LNC members without requiring an
> NDA, I'd feel more comfortable stopping other work and doing that, and not
> requiring an NDA.
>
> We did not find the word "Confidential" in the upcoming LNC meeting in
> Kansas City and New Orleans. Those contract are attached.
>
>
> Wes Benedict, Executive Director
> Libertarian National Committee, Inc.
> 1444 Duke St., Alexandria, VA 22314
> (202) 333-0008 ext. 232 <(202)%20333-0008>, wes.benedict at lp.org
> facebook.com/libertarians @LPNational
> Join the Libertarian Party at: http://lp.org/membership
>
> On 7/13/2017 10:03 AM, Aaron Starr wrote:
>
> "Do you agree with Alicia and I that the LNC should be provided with data
> on
>
> our meeting costs as I've been requesting? Going forward, I would like to
>
> see those costs disclosed upfront, before a meeting site is selected, and I
>
> would also like to see the our past costs for each meeting this term,
> within
>
> some reasonable frame of time."
>
>
> While I am not personally fixated on the costs of meetings, I do believe
>
> that it is perfectly reasonable for a member of this committee to request
>
> past data on our meeting costs and copies of contracts. That information
> was
>
> requested on June 6 and should have been provided by now.
>
>
>
> Aaron Starr
>
> (805) 583-3308 Home
>
> (805) 404-8693 Mobile
>
> starrcpa at gmail.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] On Behalf Of
>
> Starchild
>
> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2017 1:22 AM
>
> To: Nick Sarwark
>
> Cc: Libertarian National Committee list
>
> Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] The Libertarian Party only has 2 full-time
>
> staffers?!
>
>
>
> Thanks Nick. So I guess the question remains, who is answering the
>
> phones and handling routine office tasks? Austin Petersen says that during
>
> his time in the office, he developed a strong intern program. If so, I'm
>
> wondering what happened to that program. Do we have any written records of
>
> it, and if so, can those records be sent to the LNC?
>
>
> My understanding - correct me if I'm wrong - is that we don't
>
> currently have any interns, but if we have names and contact info of past
>
> interns, I'd volunteer to call them and ask about their experience working
>
> as interns for the LP. That could help us rebuild a program and start
>
> getting more bodies in the office getting stuff done, including routine
>
> tasks.
>
>
> Do you agree with Alicia and I that the LNC should be provided with
>
> data on our meeting costs as I've been requesting? Going forward, I would
>
> like to see those costs disclosed upfront, before a meeting site is
>
> selected, and I would also like to see the our past costs for each meeting
>
> this term, within some reasonable frame of time. Do you have any objection
>
> to this, and if not, what time frames seem reasonable to you?
>
>
> Love & Liberty,
>
>
>                                    ((( starchild ))) At-Large
>
> Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>
>                          RealReform at earthlink.net
>
>                                  (415) 625-FREE
>
>                                    @StarchildSF
>
>
>
> On Jul 12, 2017, at 9:08 PM, Nicholas Sarwark wrote:
>
>
> Starchild,
>
>
> At present, the LNC has Wes Benedict, Eric Dixon, and Robert Kraus
>
> full-time and based out of the Alexandria office. My understanding is
>
> that Nick Dunbar and Mat Thexton are also based out of that office,
>
> though not full-time.  We also have a number of contractors working
>
> remotely, including Andy Burns, Lauren Daugherty, Jess Mears, Denise
>
> Luckey, Bob Johnston, and Elizabeth Brierly.
>
>
> Wes and I are in the midst of interviewing candidates for Press
>
> Secretary, which is anticipated to be full-time, and will be moving on
>
> to interviewing candidates for a Candidate Support Specialist shortly.
>
>
> Yours in liberty,
>
> Nick
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 8:05 PM, Starchild <sfdreamer at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Thank you, Alicia. Coupled with the Convention Oversight Committee
>
> experience you mention, this does raise questions. But beyond the
>
> issue of getting the requested information, I was honestly shocked to
>
> hear that only Wes and Robert are usually in the office full time. If
>
> their time is valuable enough to justify what we're paying them,
>
> surely we should not be having them routinely spend that time on
>
> tasks that lower-paid staffers, or volunteers, could be handling.
>
>
> I would like to hear what Nick Sarwark as chair thinks about both the
>
> data request compliance and how staff hours are apparently being
>
> allocated.
>
> Love & Liberty,
>
>
>                                    ((( starchild ))) At-Large
>
> Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>
>                          RealReform at earthlink.net
>
>                                 (415) 625-FREE
>
>                                    @StarchildSF
>
>
>
> On Jun 7, 2017, at 3:02 PM, Alicia Mattson wrote:
>
>
> Starchild,
>
>
> I have a lot of disagreements with your other ideas about how we
>
> should find meeting locations and what arrangements are workable.
>
>
> However, I do agree with you that it should not take so long to
>
> provide the LNC with basic data about the routine costs of our
>
> meetings, and provide copies of the meeting space contracts showing
>
> which of those expenses are required performance.  You've been asking
>
> for some time, and it's not that large of a data request.
>
>
> Recently, the Convention Oversight Committee was not in agreement
>
> about whether to again use an outside professional to assist with the
>
> 2020 site search, or whether to do it in-house with Robert Kraus as the
>
> point person.
>
> When the issue of asking a staff member to take on such a
>
> time-consuming job was discussed, the COC was told that when Wes
>
> tells the LNC that staff is overloaded, that characterization does
>
> not necessarily include Robert Kraus, and he was willing and able to
>
> add such a large project to his plate.  If that's the case, then I
>
> don't see why there isn't time to fulfill this data request of yours in a
>
> more timely manner.
>
> -Alicia
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 4:34 PM, Starchild <sfdreamer at earthlink.net>
>
> wrote:
>
>
> Maybe I just haven't been paying attention. That's what LP
>
> operations manager Robert Kraus suggested when I spoke with him
>
> today and expressed surprise at his statement that he and Wes
>
> Benedict are the only paid staff working full time at our office. He
>
> said that if I'd read the report Wes presented at the last LNC meeting,
>
> I would have been aware of the situation.
>
> Robert told me this by way of explaining why he has not yet sent the
>
> LNC the details of how much we are paying for hotel meeting space,
>
> food and beverage obligations, staff airline flights, shipping
>
> costs, etc., in connection with LNC meetings. At the last LNC
>
> meeting in Pittsburgh in April, he told me in response to my asking
>
> him for this information that he would send it within a week or so.
>
> When I spoke with him today, he said that if I wanted him to stop
>
> what he was doing and send the information now, he would have to
>
> stop working on updating donor information to help us raise money,
>
> because he was the only person in the office right now. When I asked
>
> whether he could get us the meeting information prior to the next
>
> LNC meeting on August 19 (over 2 months from now, and 4 months from when
>
> he originally said he'd provide it), his response was "possibly".
>
> We have 11 people listed on our staff page
>
> (https://www.lp.org/staff/), not even counting individuals like our
>
> legal counsel and our FEC consultant who are kind of "on call", and
>
> although political director Carla Howell's contract wasn't renewed,
>
> the chair recently proposed adding an additional lower-level
>
> staffer. With that many folks on the roster, I don't understand why
>
> the two highest-paid individuals on staff are the only ones who are
>
> being paid full-time salaries and asked to staff the office largely
>
> by themselves. If this is true, it means that our highest-paid
>
> staffers are likely spending a significant part of their time doing
>
> routine office tasks like answering phone calls which could be handled
>
> by lower-paid staffers or even by volunteers.
>
> Robert did say he agreed with me that staff should not be asked to
>
> monitor or be involved in the party's social media outreach, which
>
> would potentially take a lot of their time away from other tasks. I
>
> also suggested that volunteers, instead of staff, could be the ones
>
> to research LNC meeting locations and present options to the LNC.
>
> Local activists in the cities where we're considering holding
>
> meetings would be the logical people to do this. If we don't have
>
> any local activists in a particular area able to help us find free
>
> or low-cost meeting venues there and help with details such as
>
> coordinating local transportation and folks able to host out-of-town
>
> visitors, it would beg the question of why we are meeting in that
>
> location instead of somewhere there is an active local Libertarian
>
> organization that can support us and which we in turn can support by
>
> seeking to arrange to have visiting LNC members make press appearances,
>
> attend local campaign events, do fundraising, etc., while in town.
>
> But if what Robert says is correct, it seems to me that we are not
>
> running our office efficiently. It also seems to me that LNC members
>
> being made to wait months and months after an LNC meeting to see
>
> what the actual expenses were for that meeting is unreasonable.
>
> Actually, we should be seeing such expenses listed before each
>
> meeting, since expenses like hotel meeting space fees, food and
>
> beverage obligations, staff airline flights, and shipping costs are
>
> in most cases known in advance. And we should be seeing estimates of
>
> these costs prior to even making a decision on where to meet, since such
>
> costs ought to factor into our decisions.
>
> Love & Liberty,
>
>
>                                     ((( starchild )))
>
> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>
>                          RealReform at earthlink.net
>
>                                  (415) 625-FREE
>
>
>
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>
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>
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>
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>
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>
>
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