[Lnc-business] LNC Meeting Costs
Starchild
sfdreamer at earthlink.net
Sat Jul 15 01:55:54 EDT 2017
Wes,
Meeting upstairs at LP headquarters (something I've also suggested previously), or outside in the parking lot if the weather is nice, sound like great solutions for when we meet in the D.C. area, which I think it does make sense to do at least once a term if not more frequently. Or at one of the Libertarian-owned hotels in northern Virginia that you mention.
Although I'm one of those who live on the west coast, I would be fine with having a policy that we always meet at one of those free locations unless a free location in some other part of the country is forthcoming, because I think such locations do exist and would materialize if we had such a policy. And I agree staff shouldn't need to be spending time on researching meeting locations, except to publicize the fact that we're looking for them – crowdsourcing that information from our membership makes more sense. I'm sure there are state affiliates and local chapters that would be interested in hosting LNC meetings and willing to help, especially if we express a willingness to incorporate local activism, candidate support, and other events into our meeting agenda.
Will you put out a blast to our email list letting LP members in other parts of the country know that the LNC is interested in finding locations in other parts of the country where we can hold free meetings?
I'm less worried about major donor fundraising being impacted if staff aren't traveling to meetings. Meetings with donors can be arranged remotely from HQ, and then the chair or other LNC members attending the meetings actually meet with the donors locally. I am willing to do those meetings. And if we're live-streaming our meetings as we should be, staffers not there in person can follow the proceedings online just like anyone else not physically present, and email LNC members if something comes up during a meeting on which they'd like to provide additional information.
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
RealReform at earthlink.net
(415) 625-FREE
@StarchildSF
On Jul 14, 2017, at 7:31 AM, Wes Benedict wrote:
> A Northern Virginia Libertarian and Robert Kraus just reminded me there's a Libertarian who owns a couple hotels in the area where we could meet for free as well. One is a Best Western. The room rates are pretty low when I just checked.
> So, you've got two free options in the Alexandria/DC area. I'll leave it to others to find and inspect potential free meeting locations in other parts of the U.S.
>
> Wes Benedict, Executive Director
> Libertarian National Committee, Inc.
> 1444 Duke St., Alexandria, VA 22314
> (202) 333-0008 ext. 232, wes.benedict at lp.org
> facebook.com/libertarians @LPNational
> Join the Libertarian Party at: http://lp.org/membership
> On 7/14/2017 10:20 AM, Wes Benedict wrote:
>> Starchild, if the LNC showed a significant interest in meeting at free locations then I'd have Robert research more free locations and I could probably find a few myself. However, the LNC has not shown a significant interest in that. In any case, it is always possible to meet on the top floor of the LPHQ for free if the LNC wants to do that and the LPHQ has the benefit of being easily accessible from a large airport. The top floor would of the LPHQ would be a bit crowded, but would work, and it feels significantly less claustrophobic than the basement, and certainly has better air flow and ambiance, albeit the air conditioner is a bit on the loud side. If it turned out to be nice weather, we could literally meet in the parking lot with plenty of space and set up folding tables and folding chairs. The parking lot is mostly empty on Saturdays--Sunday we'd need to set up before the church traffic arrives, but if we did, that would work fine. However, overhead projectors and laptops would be hard to see outside.
>> If the LNC were to show interest in meeting at least twice per year at LPHQ, I'd make an extra effort to reconfigure the office to make it at least a little more comfortable for those meetings.
>> LNC representatives from the west coast who feel it is unfair to have to go to the east coast all the time could, if the LNC approved, participate via adobe connect or conference call.
>>
>> Likewise, if at some point the LNC decides it prefers to meet without staff present, I'm pretty sure staff would be willing to miss the meetings, although I will say I've often noticed LNC discussions going in a sub-optimal direction based on not knowing certain details, and when I've raised my hand and been called on have provided additional information, that information has informed the LNC and resulted in different decisions than if I had not provided the info.
>> Our recent focus with LNC meetings has been to set up meetings with major donors. We raised a significant amount of money in Pittsburgh. If we cut out staff travel to LNC meetings, not as many of those fundraising meetings could happen as effectively.
>> In the mean time, if the someone comes up with a great free location for meetings that the rest of the LNC would support using, those suggestions should be sent to the LNC representatives. The LNC picks the meeting locations, and staff will facilitate the LNC choices.
>>
>> Wes Benedict, Executive Director
>> Libertarian National Committee, Inc.
>> 1444 Duke St., Alexandria, VA 22314
>> (202) 333-0008 ext. 232, wes.benedict at lp.org
>> facebook.com/libertarians @LPNational
>> Join the Libertarian Party at: http://lp.org/membership
>> On 7/14/2017 8:15 AM, Ken Moellman wrote:
>>> Based on the chart included above, it appears that the cheapest option is to have more meetings at the Residence Inn in VA near the office. I would not be opposed to more meetings there.
>>>
>>> ken
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 2:49 AM, Starchild <sfdreamer at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thank you Wes, the spreadsheet is very helpful! I was afraid that when I did finally receive information on this, it might be incomplete, expenses lumped together in broad catch-all categories, difficult to read, or otherwise requiring more follow-up, but this chart looks pretty clean and straightforward for the time period covered (2011 to 2014), although it does appear that a couple meetings which took place in 2013 are not included, as only one meeting is listed for that year. Nevertheless, this is substantially what I was looking for. It does raise a question in my mind though of why Robert couldn't have sent me this document when I first asked him about meeting expense data, since it is several years old and not I presume something that was just created recently. But I won't dwell on that at this point.
>>>
>>> More of interest, the total per meeting costs are higher than I had been led to believe. The average cost of an LNC meeting is listed as $4,844, whereas the number Robert previously mentioned to me was $2,500 per meeting. Admittedly, he may not have been including some elements of the total cost, such as staff travel, in that lower figure. But not having any better data, I subsequently cited the $2500 number repeatedly as an overall per meeting cost estimate, I'm pretty sure both in meetings and via email, without him or anybody else correcting me (I do have a vague recollection of at least one person telling me in conversation not during a meeting that they thought the cost was higher, but that might have been somebody not on the LNC). It appears that either the rest of the LNC has been as ignorant as myself of the real costs, or the misinformation of that incorrect lower number was simply allowed to go unchallenged.
>>>
>>> I am glad to hear you say that staff has no requirement for expensive meetings. I've repeatedly gotten the sense that Robert prefers them, although I don't recall that he's ever said so in so many words. My own view more than ever is that there is definite room for savings in these numbers, both on the LNC side (pay for our own food and beverages, meet in less posh venues than hotel conference rooms), and on the staff side (it seems to me that we shouldn't need to take more than one staff member, at most, away from the Alexandria office to fly them to a meeting and put them up in a hotel for the weekend, when the LNC can always have a staff member call in to the meeting if needed, as we often do with our attorney, our FEC consultant, and other individuals. Even if we paid a staff member two day's wages just to be "on call" for the weekend for when we might want to reach them by phone, the cost to the party would be considerably less than flying the person across the country and paying for a hotel room.
>>>
>>> Also glad to hear you say that there's nothing particularly secret about the venue meeting contracts, although it's really more the cost data than the contracts that I'm after with regard to meeting room contracts. A hotel's "request" for "confidentiality" certainly doesn't sound like a legally binding condition of secrecy imposed upon us however (if they're demanding secrecy as a contract clause, we should be informed of that before signing, but that seems unlikely, and I think our standard negotiating position should be "we don't do secrecy"). In any case, contracts have sometimes been sent out to this public email list or disclosed during regular LNC meetings that are open to the public, so shouldn't normally require any kind of written contract to pass along. If a majority of the LNC feels a particular contract, or parts of it, should be kept secret, as with the 2016 contract with the Johnson/Weld campaign has been (until this September, if I recall correctly), it seems to me we can address that on a case-by-case basis. I do appreciate you sending the contracts (which I have yet to review) for our two upcoming meetings.
>>>
>>> Regarding other past meeting room costs (from 2014-2017) I'm not in a particular rush to see that data, although I would like to see it at some point in the next few months. Going further back, I'd also like to know if there are records of free meeting spaces that have been used for LNC meetings, and if so where they were. Of course originally there was David Nolan's living room, and if it was good enough for our founders, well! But even after the LNC got started and had like 25 people showing up to meetings, I'll bet they sometimes met in spaces they didn't pay for. Going forward, the important thing to me is that we see prior to each meeting the estimated costs for various proposed sites, broken down as they are in the spreadsheet, before we make any final decision on where to meet.
>>>
>>> Love & Liberty,
>>>
>>> ((( starchild )))
>>> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>>> RealReform at earthlink.net
>>> (415) 625-FREE
>>> @StarchildSF
>>>
>>> P.S. – Someone gave me an excellent suggestion recently, which is that we look into renting a whole house on AirBnB or another homesharing service for LNC meetings. In Kansas City, for instance, we could have rented this place, which I found in just a few minutes:
>>>
>>> <KansasCityAirBnBListing.jpg>
>>>
>>> https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/19641293?location=Kansas%20City&check_in=2017-08-19&check_out=2017-08-20&s=UkpxykRA
>>>
>>> At $419 per night and 8 beds, we could have 8 people sleeping there at the affordable price of around $50 per person, and it would basically cover the meeting space with a cost of $0 to the LP. Now it does say "no parties/events" but I suspect if we'd told them what we had in mind, they'd be fine with it. I think we should look for options like this before spending thousands to be at a hotel.
>>>
>>> <LNC-MeetingCosts.jpg>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 13, 2017, at 1:51 PM, Wes Benedict wrote:
>>>
>>>> Starchild,
>>>>
>>>> If I thought this information would be useful for an upcoming decision, I'd make sure we bumped other things back and moved this forward.
>>>>
>>>> Robert has kept a spreadsheet detailing the LNC meeting costs. It's significantly out of date and will take time to update.
>>>>
>>>> If I get a sense from a significant number on the LNC that it is important enough for us to stop other work and get that spreadsheet updated, we could certainly do that.
>>>>
>>>> Or, if the LNC would be satisfied to get a list of meetings from the past just to get a sense of the costs, Robert has provided that and it's attached.
>>>>
>>>> I don't personally see much coming from providing that information urgently, but again, we could certainly get it done if it was a top priority.
>>>>
>>>> In general, staff has usually included in our suggestions and research low-cost options like Oklahoma and Alexandria, and the LNC has chosen places that were not the lowest cost options staff has provided. I point that out, because I want to make it clear that, if the costs of LNC meetings is your concern, I don't want our membership or the LNC to think that staff requires expensive meetings. We go with the flow of the LNC. Of the 5 to 10 times I've suggested a specific location for an LNC meeting, I don't think the LNC has taken my suggestion. I don't mind. I've thought most of the places we've had meetings were reasonably decided.
>>>>
>>>> I think Robert has shown many of the contracts to you in person when you've visited LPHQ.
>>>>
>>>> I believe Robert has offered to email all the contracts to you if you sign the standard Non-Disclosure Agreement. I believe you have so far chosen not to sign the non-disclosure agreement for certain reasons that you're in a better situation to explain than me. It's not a big deal to me personally, just has been our practice related to contracts.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think there's anything especially interesting or "secret" in any of the contracts we've had with hotels to have LNC meetings. Payments to hotels can be found in detail on the FEC website.
>>>>
>>>> I think sometimes vendors offer "discounts" and sometimes put in their contracts terms requesting confidentiality, but I'm not going to go through and dig up a bunch of contracts to see for myself unless I get a sense from the LNC that that is what they want staff to spend time on.
>>>>
>>>> If the LNC could pass a motion requesting staff to provide all the LNC meeting contracts to Starchild and other LNC members without requiring an NDA, I'd feel more comfortable stopping other work and doing that, and not requiring an NDA.
>>>>
>>>> We did not find the word "Confidential" in the upcoming LNC meeting in Kansas City and New Orleans. Those contract are attached.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Wes Benedict, Executive Director
>>>> Libertarian National Committee, Inc.
>>>> 1444 Duke St., Alexandria, VA 22314
>>>> (202) 333-0008 ext. 232, wes.benedict at lp.org
>>>> facebook.com/libertarians @LPNational
>>>> Join the Libertarian Party at: http://lp.org/membership
>>>>
>>>> On 7/13/2017 10:03 AM, Aaron Starr wrote:
>>>>> "Do you agree with Alicia and I that the LNC should be provided with data on
>>>>> our meeting costs as I've been requesting? Going forward, I would like to
>>>>> see those costs disclosed upfront, before a meeting site is selected, and I
>>>>> would also like to see the our past costs for each meeting this term, within
>>>>> some reasonable frame of time."
>>>>>
>>>>> While I am not personally fixated on the costs of meetings, I do believe
>>>>> that it is perfectly reasonable for a member of this committee to request
>>>>> past data on our meeting costs and copies of contracts. That information was
>>>>> requested on June 6 and should have been provided by now.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Aaron Starr
>>>>> (805) 583-3308 Home
>>>>> (805) 404-8693 Mobile
>>>>> starrcpa at gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Starchild
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2017 1:22 AM
>>>>> To: Nick Sarwark
>>>>> Cc: Libertarian National Committee list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] The Libertarian Party only has 2 full-time
>>>>> staffers?!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Nick. So I guess the question remains, who is answering the
>>>>> phones and handling routine office tasks? Austin Petersen says that during
>>>>> his time in the office, he developed a strong intern program. If so, I'm
>>>>> wondering what happened to that program. Do we have any written records of
>>>>> it, and if so, can those records be sent to the LNC?
>>>>>
>>>>> My understanding - correct me if I'm wrong - is that we don't
>>>>> currently have any interns, but if we have names and contact info of past
>>>>> interns, I'd volunteer to call them and ask about their experience working
>>>>> as interns for the LP. That could help us rebuild a program and start
>>>>> getting more bodies in the office getting stuff done, including routine
>>>>> tasks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you agree with Alicia and I that the LNC should be provided with
>>>>> data on our meeting costs as I've been requesting? Going forward, I would
>>>>> like to see those costs disclosed upfront, before a meeting site is
>>>>> selected, and I would also like to see the our past costs for each meeting
>>>>> this term, within some reasonable frame of time. Do you have any objection
>>>>> to this, and if not, what time frames seem reasonable to you?
>>>>>
>>>>> Love & Liberty,
>>>>>
>>>>> ((( starchild ))) At-Large
>>>>> Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>>>>> RealReform at earthlink.net
>>>>> (415) 625-FREE
>>>>> @StarchildSF
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 12, 2017, at 9:08 PM, Nicholas Sarwark wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Starchild,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At present, the LNC has Wes Benedict, Eric Dixon, and Robert Kraus
>>>>>> full-time and based out of the Alexandria office. My understanding is
>>>>>> that Nick Dunbar and Mat Thexton are also based out of that office,
>>>>>> though not full-time. We also have a number of contractors working
>>>>>> remotely, including Andy Burns, Lauren Daugherty, Jess Mears, Denise
>>>>>> Luckey, Bob Johnston, and Elizabeth Brierly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wes and I are in the midst of interviewing candidates for Press
>>>>>> Secretary, which is anticipated to be full-time, and will be moving on
>>>>>> to interviewing candidates for a Candidate Support Specialist shortly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yours in liberty,
>>>>>> Nick
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 8:05 PM, Starchild <sfdreamer at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Thank you, Alicia. Coupled with the Convention Oversight Committee
>>>>>>> experience you mention, this does raise questions. But beyond the
>>>>>>> issue of getting the requested information, I was honestly shocked to
>>>>>>> hear that only Wes and Robert are usually in the office full time. If
>>>>>>> their time is valuable enough to justify what we're paying them,
>>>>>>> surely we should not be having them routinely spend that time on
>>>>>>> tasks that lower-paid staffers, or volunteers, could be handling.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would like to hear what Nick Sarwark as chair thinks about both the
>>>>>>> data request compliance and how staff hours are apparently being
>>>>> allocated.
>>>>>>> Love & Liberty,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ((( starchild ))) At-Large
>>>>>>> Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>>> RealReform at earthlink.net
>>>>>>> (415) 625-FREE
>>>>>>> @StarchildSF
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jun 7, 2017, at 3:02 PM, Alicia Mattson wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Starchild,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have a lot of disagreements with your other ideas about how we
>>>>>>> should find meeting locations and what arrangements are workable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> However, I do agree with you that it should not take so long to
>>>>>>> provide the LNC with basic data about the routine costs of our
>>>>>>> meetings, and provide copies of the meeting space contracts showing
>>>>>>> which of those expenses are required performance. You've been asking
>>>>>>> for some time, and it's not that large of a data request.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Recently, the Convention Oversight Committee was not in agreement
>>>>>>> about whether to again use an outside professional to assist with the
>>>>>>> 2020 site search, or whether to do it in-house with Robert Kraus as the
>>>>> point person.
>>>>>>> When the issue of asking a staff member to take on such a
>>>>>>> time-consuming job was discussed, the COC was told that when Wes
>>>>>>> tells the LNC that staff is overloaded, that characterization does
>>>>>>> not necessarily include Robert Kraus, and he was willing and able to
>>>>>>> add such a large project to his plate. If that's the case, then I
>>>>>>> don't see why there isn't time to fulfill this data request of yours in a
>>>>> more timely manner.
>>>>>>> -Alicia
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 4:34 PM, Starchild <sfdreamer at earthlink.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe I just haven't been paying attention. That's what LP
>>>>>>>> operations manager Robert Kraus suggested when I spoke with him
>>>>>>>> today and expressed surprise at his statement that he and Wes
>>>>>>>> Benedict are the only paid staff working full time at our office. He
>>>>>>>> said that if I'd read the report Wes presented at the last LNC meeting,
>>>>> I would have been aware of the situation.
>>>>>>>> Robert told me this by way of explaining why he has not yet sent the
>>>>>>>> LNC the details of how much we are paying for hotel meeting space,
>>>>>>>> food and beverage obligations, staff airline flights, shipping
>>>>>>>> costs, etc., in connection with LNC meetings. At the last LNC
>>>>>>>> meeting in Pittsburgh in April, he told me in response to my asking
>>>>>>>> him for this information that he would send it within a week or so.
>>>>>>>> When I spoke with him today, he said that if I wanted him to stop
>>>>>>>> what he was doing and send the information now, he would have to
>>>>>>>> stop working on updating donor information to help us raise money,
>>>>>>>> because he was the only person in the office right now. When I asked
>>>>>>>> whether he could get us the meeting information prior to the next
>>>>>>>> LNC meeting on August 19 (over 2 months from now, and 4 months from when
>>>>> he originally said he'd provide it), his response was "possibly".
>>>>>>>> We have 11 people listed on our staff page
>>>>>>>> (https://www.lp.org/staff/), not even counting individuals like our
>>>>>>>> legal counsel and our FEC consultant who are kind of "on call", and
>>>>>>>> although political director Carla Howell's contract wasn't renewed,
>>>>>>>> the chair recently proposed adding an additional lower-level
>>>>>>>> staffer. With that many folks on the roster, I don't understand why
>>>>>>>> the two highest-paid individuals on staff are the only ones who are
>>>>>>>> being paid full-time salaries and asked to staff the office largely
>>>>>>>> by themselves. If this is true, it means that our highest-paid
>>>>>>>> staffers are likely spending a significant part of their time doing
>>>>>>>> routine office tasks like answering phone calls which could be handled
>>>>> by lower-paid staffers or even by volunteers.
>>>>>>>> Robert did say he agreed with me that staff should not be asked to
>>>>>>>> monitor or be involved in the party's social media outreach, which
>>>>>>>> would potentially take a lot of their time away from other tasks. I
>>>>>>>> also suggested that volunteers, instead of staff, could be the ones
>>>>>>>> to research LNC meeting locations and present options to the LNC.
>>>>>>>> Local activists in the cities where we're considering holding
>>>>>>>> meetings would be the logical people to do this. If we don't have
>>>>>>>> any local activists in a particular area able to help us find free
>>>>>>>> or low-cost meeting venues there and help with details such as
>>>>>>>> coordinating local transportation and folks able to host out-of-town
>>>>>>>> visitors, it would beg the question of why we are meeting in that
>>>>>>>> location instead of somewhere there is an active local Libertarian
>>>>>>>> organization that can support us and which we in turn can support by
>>>>>>>> seeking to arrange to have visiting LNC members make press appearances,
>>>>> attend local campaign events, do fundraising, etc., while in town.
>>>>>>>> But if what Robert says is correct, it seems to me that we are not
>>>>>>>> running our office efficiently. It also seems to me that LNC members
>>>>>>>> being made to wait months and months after an LNC meeting to see
>>>>>>>> what the actual expenses were for that meeting is unreasonable.
>>>>>>>> Actually, we should be seeing such expenses listed before each
>>>>>>>> meeting, since expenses like hotel meeting space fees, food and
>>>>>>>> beverage obligations, staff airline flights, and shipping costs are
>>>>>>>> in most cases known in advance. And we should be seeing estimates of
>>>>>>>> these costs prior to even making a decision on where to meet, since such
>>>>> costs ought to factor into our decisions.
>>>>>>>> Love & Liberty,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ((( starchild )))
>>>>>>>> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>>>> RealReform at earthlink.net
>>>>>>>> (415) 625-FREE
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _____________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> <LNC_NDA_STARCHILD-0717.pdf><lnc-meeting-exp-2011-2014.pdf><LNC - Dec 2017.pdf><0817-Libertarian National Committee.pdf>_______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
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