[Lnc-business] How I Can Help The Party

Sun Aug 6 05:32:01 EDT 2017

Hi Bob,

	Thank you for writing and letting us know about the "Marinea Project". The idea certainly sounds worthwhile and appealing in theory. However, some healthy skepticism among libertarians about this project would seem to be in order. There is a fairly long history of libertarian "new country" efforts, both sea-based and otherwise. Sadly, a number of them have turned out to either be scams, or to have been unrealistic in their planning and execution, due to a variety of factors involving real-world political interference, funding issues, engineering issues, and more.

	According to the website to which you refer us (https://marinea.org/progress-report/), the Marinea plan appears to have as its first step buying a luxury barge and putting it somewhere in the Carribean, in international waters, apparently at a cost (to be raised via donations/buy-in) of $15 million. But the site is scanty on details, or precisely where things would go from there. It indicates that step was supposed to have happened by July 4, 2017, but I'm guessing it has not. How much money has been raised? And would the community (i.e. people who buy the $100 memberships being offered, or "immigrate" to the new country) be joint owners of the barge? Since that's not mentioned as a benefit of membership, I'm guessing the answer is no. The site speaks of it as a "self-sustaining village", but as described it sounds more like a "company store".

	Back in the 1990s there was an effort called the Atlantis Project that took donations, sold merchandise, developed a constitution, etc., but eventually went bust, leaving those who donated or bought in high and dry (see http://oceania.org/). Before that, there was another Operation Atlantis which went further, but ultimately seems to have died with the death of its wealthy backer (see http://shimajournal.org/issues/v10n2/e.-Simpson-Shima-v10n2.pdf). A more recent effort to build a free on-land libertarian community called Galt's Gulch in Chile lured investors who appear to have been deliberately defrauded (see http://www.thedailybell.com/international-real-estate/wendy-mcelroy-the-fate-of-galts-gulch-chile/), although something may be salvaged. 

	There have been others. And the dream has not died. The San Francisco-based Seasteading Institute this year signed a memorandum of understanding with the government of French Polynesia (Tahiti) to launch a seasteading project there. I think they are serious, well-intentioned people, who are approaching the engineering and other issues diligently. They know the history. But while I would love to be proven wrong, I'm not super optimistic about this latest plan either – SI is vague about issues of political freedom in the society they want to create, and the memorandum is likewise vague about how much autonomy the government is really offering. But given the cost hurdles involved, I think it would make sense for projects like yours to try to work together with SI in developing a new libertarian country, rather than trying to strike out entirely on your own. A collaborative effort involving multiple groups could also be healthy in terms of making it more of a broad-based, community effort among libertarians.

	I do think there is a future in seasteading, and I'm not trying to dismiss efforts like Marinea, but I would urge any (L)ibertarians interested in this or other "new country" ventures to be skeptical and cautious, and as always, demand transparency and bottom-up empowerment/governance! 

	If I'm missing anything important here Bob, please let me know, or if you'd like to call me and discuss this, you're welcome to do so. And thank you for your work as a Libertarian activist in South Carolina and Pennsylvania. 

Love & Liberty,

                                  ((( starchild ))))
At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
                         RealReform at earthlink.net
                                 (415) 625-FREE
                                   @StarchildSF

On Aug 4, 2017, at 5:21 AM, Bob Llewellyn wrote:

> Starchild & To all members of the Libertarian National Committee,
> 
> I was recently in contact with Nick Dunbar and was referred to yourselves
> about a project that will seriously benefit the libertarian party. But
> first let me put your minds at ease, we are not asking for any money but I
> am asking for your endorsement and of course assistance from any
> individuals that desires to be part of the project.
> 
> Enclosed is the brief communique where I introduced the Marinea Project to
> Nick.
> 
> Please feel free to contact me with any questions or concerns, or to
> discuss endorsement. Thank you for your time.
> 
> Bob Llewellyn / Marinea Project Coordinator
> 864-640-4142
> 
> ###
> 
> From Nick Dunbar:
> “Hi Bob, Received your email. I am aware of the Marinea Project. However,
> staff are authorized to work on projects assigned by our board of
> directors, the Libertarian National Committee (LNC). Feel free to contact
> a few members of the LNC. D. Nick Dunbar”
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Llewellyn [mailto:bob at marinea.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2017 3:56 PM
> To: nick.dunbar at lp.org
> Subject: How I can help the party
> 
> Nick,
> 
> Let me first introduce myself because what I am about to propose to you
> may sound a little bit fantastic at first, but as you look at the logic
> involved, this strategy will become clear and obvious.
> 
> My name is Bob Llewellyn, and I have a little bit of experience with the
> Libertarian Party. I started two county organizations, one for
> Pennsylvania in Lawrence County,and another for Ohio in Ashtabula County.
> 
> I was also the Fundraising Chair for both Pennsylvania and South Carolina
> for a short period of time. There was a pause in my participation as I
> left the country for a number of years doing some research on a project
> that I wanted to be a part of, which as it turned out would benefit the
> Libertarian Party.
> 
> My degree is in the math field in what is generally now known as
> Operations Research. One of my best successes was to develop a computer
> program that traded the forex market. It took over 3000 trades in the test
> year (2008-2009) and made over 300% profit, and even more remarkable is
> that it lost only one trade for 8 cents when the internet went out for the
> entire region.
> 
> I gave you that resume so that you can take me serious when I tell you
> that I am involved with a project that can and will have everybody talking
> about the Libertarians.  News coverage is all but guaranteed. It will
> change the way the world thinks such as the way that the internet did or
> as the home computer did.
> 
> I would like to have a conversation with you and answer all of your
> questions, but first I want to address the problem. Why can't we, meaning
> libertarians, get people to pay attention to us? As an example, we almost
> always have a vote count of less than 10%. The simple answer is that we
> have a credibility problem. We are offering the people a better way of
> life without being able to prove any of it. To date there has never been a
> Libertarian government, so no one can be sure that one would even work.
> 
> One of my favorite quotes is from Buckminster Fuller, “You never change
> things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new
> model that makes the existing model obsolete.”
> 
> What if I told you that the Libertarians have been given the authorization
> to set up a test Libertarian government, not just Libertarian politicians
> in a government designed to be a Democratic-Republic, but a total
> Libertarian government.
> 
> In a few years the party will be able to argue from actual experience as
> to how people can live free, and have all that they have now and even
> more. There is such a test project designed to help handle the population
> increase that is expected to be around 40% in the next 35 years.
> 
> We are developing a pilot project for a new type of village and it needs
> someone to write up its constitution and set up the government.  What is
> really interesting is that just about everyone associated with the
> development of the project turns out to be Libertarian.
> 
> What is more, the pilot project already has the endorsement of the South
> Carolina Libertarian Party and a growing number of Libertarian radio show
> hosts and podcasters. You can think of it as the Free State Project on
> steroids.
> 
> I am asking for some of your time, and promise I won't waste it. Read all
> about this test village online at marinea.org then please give me a call
> at 864-640-4142.
> 
> One favor though, would you please send a return email acknowledging that
> you received this. I don't want to send duplicates if you have already
> seen this one.  Thanks.
> 
> Bob Llewellyn / Marinea Project Coordinator / 864-640-4142

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