[Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2017-18: Unity Statement

[Erin Adams]

I agree with Alicia. My vote would be no.

On Aug 28, 2017 8:46 AM, "Sam Goldstein" <goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com> wrote:

> I vote No.
>
>
>
> Sam Goldstein
> Libertarian National Committee
> Member at Large
> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
> Indianapolis IN 46260
> 317-850-0726 <(317)%20850-0726> Phone
> 317-582-1773 <(317)%20582-1773> Fax
>
> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 9:27 AM, Daniel Hayes <danielehayes at icloud.com>
> wrote:
>
>> David,
>>
>> This is not our resolution. The language isn't going to get cleaned up.
>>
>> Daniel Hayes
>> LNC At Large Member
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Aug 28, 2017, at 8:24 AM, David Demarest <dpdemarest at centurylink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I agree that replacing “cities and States” with “private individuals”
>> would be an appropriate rewording. Government revenue not stolen in the
>> form of taxes to fund offensive military activities can be used privately
>> by empowered individuals for charity and other private entrepreneur and
>> volunteer social services.
>>
>>
>>
>> I change my vote to “Pass” until the wording is cleaned up with a clearer
>> definition of the coalition commitment action limitations and removal the
>> reference to “cities and States” that, despite being a better alternative
>> to military spending, clearly has welfare state implications.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>> ~David Pratt
>>
>>
>>
>> *2018 Omaha Roads to Freedom Un-Convention*
>>
>>
>>
>> *Freedom, Nothing More, Nothing Less*
>>
>>
>>
>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>>
>> Roads to Freedom Foundation, Founder
>>
>> LNC Region 6 Representative (IA, IL, MN, MO, ND, NE, WI)
>>
>> LSLA Vice-Chair
>>
>> LPNE State Central Committee, Secretary
>>
>> LPRC Board Member, Nebraska State Coordinator
>>
>> David.Demarest at LP.org
>>
>> Secretary at LPNE.org
>>
>> DPDemarest at centurylink.net
>>
>> DPrattDemarest at gmail.com
>>
>> Cell:      402-981-6469 <(402)%20981-6469>
>>
>> Home: 402-493-0873 <(402)%20493-0873>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org
>> <lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org>] *On Behalf Of *Caryn Ann Harlos
>> *Sent:* Monday, August 28, 2017 8:08 AM
>> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2017-18: Unity Statement
>>
>>
>>
>> I change my vote to no.
>>
>>
>>
>> Chuck Moulton pointed this out, and I agree with him - there is another
>> argument buried in here.
>>
>>
>>
>> ==> 4.  The annual cost of these bases to the American taxpayers is
>> approximately $156 billion. The support of U.S. foreign military bases
>> drains funds that can be used to fund human needs and enable our cities and
>> States to provide necessary services for the people.
>>
>>
>> Many LP members and LNC members were justifiably upset with the Iraq Exit
>> Strategy produced by staff in 2010 (I think?) because it suggested taking
>> troops from Iraq and redeploying them to Afghanistan and other places
>> rather than simply reducing our military involvement.
>>
>> Similarly, instead of simply suggesting eliminating military spending
>> (and reducing taxes as Libertarians would like), this resolution suggests
>> re-allocating the funds to social welfare programs which should be
>> cringe-worthy for anarchists and minarchists alike.  At least, that was my
>> reading of "funds that can be used to fund human needs and enable our
>> cities and States to provide necessary services for the people".===
>>
>>
>>
>> -Caryn Ann
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 6:39 AM David Demarest <
>> dpdemarest at centurylink.net> wrote:
>>
>> I must admit that coalitions make me nervous unless they are confined to
>> advocacy for specific actions like closure of all foreign military bases
>> and reducing our offensive military presence on foreign shores and on the
>> seas. While this motion is presented in the context of the broader
>> Libertarian perspective, the proposed actions appear to be on target. I
>> fail to see any “rent is theft” connection.
>>
>>
>>
>> As to the environmental issue, it is a well-established fact that
>> governments and their military arms are by far the worst polluters and
>> stewards of the environment. Our 25 existing and proposed 15 additional
>> carrier strike forces are certainly not green-friendly floating wind farms.
>>
>>
>>
>> On the espionage issue, I am okay with privately sponsored foreign
>> defensive espionage but government offensive espionage is a serious threat
>> to not only the world community but inevitably trickles down into
>> information gathering focused on citizens here at home for obvious
>> unethical reasons disguised as scare-tactic protection from terrorists.
>>
>>
>>
>> Aside from my interest in a little more definition on the proposed
>> coalition and its action limitations, I support this motion.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>> ~David Pratt
>>
>>
>>
>> *2018 Omaha Roads to Freedom Un-Convention*
>>
>>
>>
>> *Freedom, Nothing More, Nothing Less*
>>
>>
>>
>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>>
>> Roads to Freedom Foundation, Founder
>>
>> LNC Region 6 Representative (IA, IL, MN, MO, ND, NE, WI)
>>
>> LSLA Vice-Chair
>>
>> LPNE State Central Committee, Secretary
>>
>> LPRC Board Member, Nebraska State Coordinator
>>
>> David.Demarest at LP.org
>>
>> Secretary at LPNE.org
>>
>> DPDemarest at centurylink.net
>>
>> DPrattDemarest at gmail.com
>>
>> Cell:      402-981-6469 <(402)%20981-6469>
>>
>> Home: 402-493-0873 <(402)%20493-0873>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] *On Behalf
>> Of *Daniel Hayes
>> *Sent:* Monday, August 28, 2017 6:00 AM
>> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2017-18: Unity Statement
>>
>>
>>
>> I vote NO.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am TOTALLY in for closure of all foreign bases. I immediately paused at
>> the language that Caryn Ann just pointed out about Environmental damage.
>> I was worried I was going to be the only "No". I would have worn that one
>> proudly.
>>
>>
>>
>> I think I see another agenda from the authors here besides closing
>> bases.  I think we need to run away from this.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't think our position on foreign bases is unclear either. Run away..
>> bravely run away away...
>>
>>
>>
>> If "we" sign this, next thing you know, we will have members saying
>> something absurd and antithetical to the fundamental principles of
>> libertarianism (like property rights) such as, "Rent is theft".
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Daniel Hayes
>>
>> LNC At Large Member
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Aug 28, 2017, at 3:40 AM, David Demarest <dprattdemarest at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Yes
>>
>>
>>
>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 28, 2017 2:22 AM, "Caryn Ann Harlos" <carynannharlos at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Yes
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 1:07 AM Alicia Mattson <agmattson at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> We have an electronic mail ballot.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by September 7, 2017 at
>> 11:59:59pm Pacific time.*
>> *Co-Sponsors:*  Vohra, Bittner, Harlos, Demarest
>>
>> *Motion:*  The Chair is authorized by the LNC to sign the following
>> petition on behalf of the LNC:  http://noforeignbases.org/
>>
>> --------------------Resolution Text--------------------
>>
>>
>> Coalition Against U.S. Foreign Military Bases
>>
>> Unity Statement
>>
>> We, the undersigned peace, justice and environmental organizations, and
>> individuals, endorse the following Points of Unity and commit ourselves to
>> working together by forming a Coalition Against U.S. Foreign Military
>> Bases, with the goal of raising public awareness and organizing non-violent
>> mass resistance against U.S. foreign military bases.
>>
>> While we may have our differences on other issues, we all agree that U.S.
>> foreign military bases are the principal instruments of imperial global
>> domination and environmental damage through wars of aggression and
>> occupation, and that the closure of U.S. foreign military bases is one of
>> the first necessary steps toward a just, peaceful and sustainable world.
>> Our belief in the urgency of this necessary step is based on the following
>> facts:
>>
>> 1.  While we are opposed to all foreign military bases, we do recognize
>> that the United States maintains the highest number of military bases
>> outside its territory, estimated at almost 1000 (95% of all foreign
>> military bases in the world). Presently, there are U.S. military bases in
>> every Persian Gulf country except Iran.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2.  In addition, the United States has 19 Naval air carriers (and 15 more
>> planned), each as part of a Carrier Strike Group, composed of roughly 7,500
>> personnel, and a carrier air wing of 65 to 70 aircraft — each of which can
>> be considered a floating military base.
>>
>>
>>
>> 3.  These bases are centers of aggressive military actions, threats of
>> political and economic expansion, sabotage and espionage, and crimes
>> against local populations. In addition, these military bases are the
>> largest users of fossil fuel in the world, heavily contributing to
>> environmental degradation.
>>
>>
>>
>> 4.  The annual cost of these bases to the American taxpayers is
>> approximately $156 billion. The support of U.S. foreign military bases
>> drains funds that can be used to fund human needs and enable our cities and
>> States to provide necessary services for the people.
>>
>>
>>
>> 5.  This has made the U.S. a more militarized society and has led to
>> increased tensions between the U.S. and the rest of the world. Stationed
>> throughout the world, almost 1000 in number, U.S. foreign military bases
>> are symbols of the ability of the United States to intrude in the lives of
>> sovereign nations and peoples.
>>
>>
>>
>> 6.  Many individual national coalitions — for example, Okinawa, Italy,
>> Jeju Island Korea, Diego Garcia, Cyprus, Greece, and Germany — are
>> demanding closure of bases on their territory. The base that the U.S. has
>> illegally occupied the longest, for over a century, is Guantánamo Bay,
>> whose existence constitutes an imposition of the empire and a violation of
>> International Law. Since 1959 the government and people of Cuba have
>> demanded that the government of the U.S. return the Guantánamo territory to
>> Cuba.
>>
>>
>> U.S. foreign military bases are NOT in defense of U.S. national, or
>> global security. They are the military expression of U.S. intrusion in the
>> lives of sovereign countries on behalf of the dominant financial,
>> political, and military interests of the ruling elite. Whether invited in
>> or not by domestic interests that have agreed to be junior partners, no
>> country, no peoples, no government, can claim to be able to make decisions
>> totally in the interest of their people, with foreign troops on their soil
>> representing interests antagonistic to the national purpose.
>>
>> We must all unite to actively oppose the existence of U.S. foreign
>> military bases and call for their immediate closure. We invite all forces
>> of peace, social and environmental justice to join us in our renewed effort
>> to achieve this shared goal.
>>
>> ---------------End of Resolution Text---------------
>>
>> -Alicia
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>> --
>>
>> *In Liberty,*
>>
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>
>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>
>>
>>
>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>
>> *We defend your rights*
>>
>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>
>> *Taxation is theft*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>> --
>>
>> *In Liberty,*
>>
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>
>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>
>>
>>
>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>
>> *We defend your rights*
>>
>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>
>> *Taxation is theft*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <Untitled attachment 00278.txt>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
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>
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