[Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2017-19 : Yemen Resolution

Sun Oct 22 12:51:24 EDT 2017

I would be amenable to an amendment that addresses my concerns.  As you all
know, I love resolutions, and I think it costs us nothing to take stands
and that we SHOULD be doing that.  And my very informal poll of members
indicated a 90% support for the LNC to do these.  But on this I can't get
past those concerns.

As usual, I will be running this by my state chairs who I always give the
opportunity to over-rule me, but they generally defer to my judgment.

-Caryn Ann

On Sun, Oct 22, 2017 at 10:33 AM, David Demarest <dprattdemarest at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I agree with with Caryn Ann's call for LNC educational clarity on our
> motion. To Erin's point, I suggest we amend the motion to spell out where
> we agree and disagree with the Yemen troop withdrawal resolution.
>
> This is an excellent educational opportunity that will allow the LNC to
> shine.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> On Oct 22, 2017 11:20 AM, "Caryn Ann Harlos" <carynannharlos at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> A yes vote will not.  We don't have the influence.  And giving tacit
>> support to the abominable policy that put us there to begin with is a net
>> educational loss.
>>
>> -Caryn Ann
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 22, 2017 at 10:16 AM David Demarest <dprattdemarest at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, Joshua is correct. A Yes vote MAY not decrease the American
>>> causalities in Yemen. A well-intended No vote, however, DEFINITELY will not
>>> reduce American deaths.
>>>
>>> A Yes vote will demonstrate to the broader audience that the LNC has
>>> it's priorities straight on reducing useless American deaths and make our
>>> inspirational deliberations more relevant to American voters and speed up
>>> the process
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> On Oct 22, 2017 9:41 AM, "Ken Moellman" <ken at moellman.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On the whole, I think it's a net good. Therefore, I vote Aye.
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Oct 22, 2017 at 10:08 AM, David Demarest <
>>>> dprattdemarest at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I vote Yes on the Yemen motion.
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree with wise use of the bully pulpit. Accordingly, I am voting in
>>>>> favor of the Yemen resolution just as I would vote Yes on a medicinal
>>>>> marijuana motion even though it did not go for the whole drug war repeal
>>>>> enchilada. Why throw out the baby with the bath water?
>>>>>
>>>>> If the LNC seriously intends to help make the Libertarian movement a
>>>>> success, we need to put more emphasis on deciding  what we are going to
>>>>> accomplish rather than finding reasons for voting No.
>>>>>
>>>>> A No vote on this motion is preaching to the choir. A Yes vote is a
>>>>> clear stand in favor of reducing our military presence in Yemen and
>>>>> reducing useless American soldier causalities as we get a start on bringing
>>>>> them home. A No vote on this motion is NOT going to reduce the deaths of
>>>>> American soldiers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thought?
>>>>>
>>>>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 22, 2017 8:01 AM, "Caryn Ann Harlos" <carynannharlos at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I vote no partially for the same reasons as Sam.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And add, that with rare exception, I oppose us putting out
>>>>>> resolutions that do not reference clear libertarian ideological
>>>>>> justifications in order to further education on our views.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think a statement or press release from the chair could address
>>>>>> this in an libertarian-focused manner.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We need to use our bully pulpit wisely.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 22, 2017 at 6:10 AM Sam Goldstein <
>>>>>> goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I vote No on this motion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I also strongly encourage other LNC members to vote no.  The
>>>>>>> resolution clearly allow the
>>>>>>> Federal government to use military force in another country in
>>>>>>> violation of both our party Platform
>>>>>>> and the NAP.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sam Goldstein
>>>>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>>> Member at Large
>>>>>>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>>>>>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>>>>>> 317-850-0726 <(317)%20850-0726> Phone
>>>>>>> 317-582-1773 <(317)%20582-1773> Fax
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 22, 2017 at 7:18 AM, Patrick McKnight <
>>>>>>> patrick.joseph.mcknight at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I vote yes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Patrick McKnight
>>>>>>>> Region 8 Rep
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2017 2:42 AM, "Alicia Mattson" <agmattson at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We have an electronic mail ballot.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by October 31, 2017 at
>>>>>>>>> 11:59:59pm Pacific time.  Trick or Treat!!*
>>>>>>>>> *Co-Sponsor:*  Sarwark
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Motion:*  That the LNC adopt the following resolution:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --------------------Resolution Text--------------------
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A Call to End the U.S. War in Yemen and Support House Concurrent
>>>>>>>>> Resolution 81
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Directing the President pursuant to section 5(c) of the War Powers
>>>>>>>>> Resolution to remove United States Armed Forces from unauthorized
>>>>>>>>> hostilities in the Republic of Yemen.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Resolved by the Libertarian National Committee (LNC)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> SECTION 1. REMOVAL OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES FROM HOSTILITIES
>>>>>>>>> IN THE REPUBLIC OF YEMEN THAT HAVE NOT BEEN AUTHORIZED BY CONGRESS.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (a) Findings ––The Libertarian National Committee agrees with
>>>>>>>>> Congress and finds the following:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (1) Whereas, Congress has the sole power to declare war under
>>>>>>>>> article I, section 8, of the Constitution.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (2) Whereas, a state of war has not been declared to exist with
>>>>>>>>> respect to the conflict between forces led by Saudi Arabia and the United
>>>>>>>>> Arab Emirates against the Houthi-Saleh alliance in the Republic of Yemen.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (3) Whereas, United States Armed Forces have been involved in
>>>>>>>>> hostilities between Saudi-led forces and the Houthi-Saleh alliance,
>>>>>>>>> including through assisting Saudi and United Arab Emirates warplanes
>>>>>>>>> conducting aerial bombings in Yemen with selecting targets and by providing
>>>>>>>>> midair refueling services to such warplanes, amounting to millions of
>>>>>>>>> pounds of jet fuel delivered during thousands of Saudi and United Arab
>>>>>>>>> Emirates airstrikes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (4) Whereas, according to the Department of State’s Country
>>>>>>>>> Reports on Terrorism 2016, the conflict between Saudi-led forces and the
>>>>>>>>> Houthi-Saleh alliance is counterproductive to ongoing efforts by the United
>>>>>>>>> States to pursue Al Qaeda and its associated forces under the Authorization
>>>>>>>>> for the Use of Military Force (Public Law 107–40; 50 U.S.C. 1541 note).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (5) Whereas, no authorization for the use of United States Armed
>>>>>>>>> Forces with respect to the conflict between Saudi-led forces and the
>>>>>>>>> Houthi-Saleh alliance in Yemen has been enacted, and no provision of law
>>>>>>>>> authorizes the provision of midair refueling services to warplanes of Saudi
>>>>>>>>> Arabia or the United Arab Emirates that are engaged in such conflict.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (6) Whereas, the conflict between Saudi-led forces and the
>>>>>>>>> Houthi-Saleh alliance in Yemen constitutes, within the meaning of section
>>>>>>>>> 4(a)(1) of the War Powers Resolution (50 U.S.C. 1543(a)(1)), either
>>>>>>>>> hostilities or a situation where imminent involvement in hostilities is
>>>>>>>>> clearly indicated by the circumstances into which United States Armed
>>>>>>>>> Forces have been introduced.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Therefore, be it resolved, the LNC supports H.Con.Res. 81 in
>>>>>>>>> accordance with section 3.3 of the Libertarian Party Platform, but advises
>>>>>>>>> complete removal of U.S. Armed Forces from the Republic of Yemen:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (b) Removal Of Armed Forces.—Pursuant to section 5(c) of the War
>>>>>>>>> Powers Resolution (50 U.S.C. 1544(c)), Congress hereby directs the
>>>>>>>>> President to remove United States Armed Forces from hostilities in the
>>>>>>>>> Republic of Yemen, except United States Armed Forces engaged in operations
>>>>>>>>> directed at Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula or associated forces, by not
>>>>>>>>> later than the date that is 30 days after the date of the adoption of this
>>>>>>>>> concurrent resolution (unless the President requests and the Congress
>>>>>>>>> authorizes a later date), and unless and until a declaration of war or
>>>>>>>>> specific authorization for such use of United States Armed Forces has been
>>>>>>>>> enacted.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----------------End of Resolution Text-----------------
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Alicia
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>>> *We defend your rights*
>>>>>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>>>>> *Taxation is theft*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>
>> --
>> *In Liberty,*
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>
>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>> *We defend your rights*
>> *And oppose the use of force*
>> *Taxation is theft*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>
>

-- 
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org>
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee

A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
*We defend your rights*
*And oppose the use of force*
*Taxation is theft*
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