[Lnc-business] SPAM Re: Email Ballot 2017-19 : Yemen Resolution

Mon Oct 23 22:49:07 EDT 2017

I vote no on the motion.
I also question the fourth Whereas in the resolution. The Authorization for the Use of Military Force does not use the term "Al-Qaeda and its associated forces". Isn't this phrase used to extend the authorization beyond just those responsible for the 9/11 attacks?

Tim Hagan

| 
 |

      From: Whitney Bilyeu <whitneycb76 at gmail.com>
 To: lnc-business at hq.lp.org 
 Sent: Monday, October 23, 2017 6:46 AM
 Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2017-19 : Yemen Resolution

Why couldn't we use this as the 'resolved' portion, and be done with it?
"Therefore, be it resolved, the LNC supports measures above and beyond H.Con.Res. 81, in accordance with section 3.3 of the Libertarian Party Platform, and calls for complete removal of U.S. Armed Forces from the Republic of Yemen."

Whitney Bilyeu
On Sun, Oct 22, 2017 at 7:11 PM, Starchild <sfdreamer at earthlink.net> wrote:

 Agree with Erin, David, and Caryn Ann. Let's vote this version down and amend it to get the messaging right. I vote no.
Love & Liberty,
                                    ((( starchild )))At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee                         RealReform at earthlink.net                                 (415) 625-FREE                                   @StarchildSF

On Oct 22, 2017, at 8:51 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:

I would be amenable to an amendment that addresses my concerns.  As you all know, I love resolutions, and I think it costs us nothing to take stands and that we SHOULD be doing that.  And my very informal poll of members indicated a 90% support for the LNC to do these.  But on this I can't get past those concerns.
As usual, I will be running this by my state chairs who I always give the opportunity to over-rule me, but they generally defer to my judgment.
-Caryn Ann
On Sun, Oct 22, 2017 at 10:33 AM, David Demarest <dprattdemarest at gmail.com> wrote:

I agree with with Caryn Ann's call for LNC educational clarity on our motion. To Erin's point, I suggest we amend the motion to spell out where we agree and disagree with the Yemen troop withdrawal resolution.
This is an excellent educational opportunity that will allow the LNC to shine.
Thoughts?
On Oct 22, 2017 11:20 AM, "Caryn Ann Harlos" <carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:

A yes vote will not.  We don't have the influence.  And giving tacit support to the abominable policy that put us there to begin with is a net educational loss.
-Caryn Ann

On Sun, Oct 22, 2017 at 10:16 AM David Demarest <dprattdemarest at gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, Joshua is correct. A Yes vote MAY not decrease the American causalities in Yemen. A well-intended No vote, however, DEFINITELY will not reduce American deaths.
A Yes vote will demonstrate to the broader audience that the LNC has it's priorities straight on reducing useless American deaths and make our inspirational deliberations more relevant to American voters and speed up the process 
Thoughts?
On Oct 22, 2017 9:41 AM, "Ken Moellman" <ken at moellman.com> wrote:

On the whole, I think it's a net good. Therefore, I vote Aye.
On Sun, Oct 22, 2017 at 10:08 AM, David Demarest <dprattdemarest at gmail.com> wrote:

I vote Yes on the Yemen motion.
I agree with wise use of the bully pulpit. Accordingly, I am voting in favor of the Yemen resolution just as I would vote Yes on a medicinal marijuana motion even though it did not go for the whole drug war repeal enchilada. Why throw out the baby with the bath water?
If the LNC seriously intends to help make the Libertarian movement a success, we need to put more emphasis on deciding  what we are going to accomplish rather than finding reasons for voting No.
A No vote on this motion is preaching to the choir. A Yes vote is a clear stand in favor of reducing our military presence in Yemen and reducing useless American soldier causalities as we get a start on bringing them home. A No vote on this motion is NOT going to reduce the deaths of American soldiers.
Thought?
~David Pratt Demarest
On Oct 22, 2017 8:01 AM, "Caryn Ann Harlos" <carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:

I vote no partially for the same reasons as Sam.
And add, that with rare exception, I oppose us putting out resolutions that do not reference clear libertarian ideological justifications in order to further education on our views.
I think a statement or press release from the chair could address this in an libertarian-focused manner.
We need to use our bully pulpit wisely.
-Caryn Ann

On Sun, Oct 22, 2017 at 6:10 AM Sam Goldstein <goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com> wrote:

I vote No on this motion.
I also strongly encourage other LNC members to vote no.  The resolution clearly allow the Federal government to use military force in another country in violation of both our party Platformand the NAP.  
Sam GoldsteinLibertarian National CommitteeMember at Large8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101Indianapolis IN 46260317-850-0726 Phone317-582-1773 Fax
On Sun, Oct 22, 2017 at 7:18 AM, Patrick McKnight <patrick.joseph.mcknight at gmail .com> wrote:

I vote yes.
Thanks,Patrick McKnightRegion 8 Rep
On Oct 22, 2017 2:42 AM, "Alicia Mattson" <agmattson at gmail.com> wrote:

We have an electronic mail ballot.

Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by October 31, 2017 at 11:59:59pm Pacific time.  Trick or Treat!!

Co-Sponsor:  Sarwark

Motion:  That the LNC adopt the following resolution:

--------------------Resolution Text--------------------

A Call to End the U.S. War in Yemen and Support House Concurrent Resolution 81

Directing the President pursuant to section 5(c) of the War Powers Resolution to remove United States Armed Forces from unauthorized hostilities in the Republic of Yemen.

Resolved by the Libertarian National Committee (LNC)

SECTION 1. REMOVAL OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES FROM HOSTILITIES IN THE REPUBLIC OF YEMEN THAT HAVE NOT BEEN AUTHORIZED BY CONGRESS.

(a) Findings ––The Libertarian National Committee agrees with Congress and finds the following:

(1) Whereas, Congress has the sole power to declare war under article I, section 8, of the Constitution.

(2) Whereas, a state of war has not been declared to exist with respect to the conflict between forces led by Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates against the Houthi-Saleh alliance in the Republic of Yemen.

(3) Whereas, United States Armed Forces have been involved in hostilities between Saudi-led forces and the Houthi-Saleh alliance, including through assisting Saudi and United Arab Emirates warplanes conducting aerial bombings in Yemen with selecting targets and by providing midair refueling services to such warplanes, amounting to millions of pounds of jet fuel delivered during thousands of Saudi and United Arab Emirates airstrikes.

(4) Whereas, according to the Department of State’s Country Reports on Terrorism 2016, the conflict between Saudi-led forces and the Houthi-Saleh alliance is counterproductive to ongoing efforts by the United States to pursue Al Qaeda and its associated forces under the Authorization for the Use of Military Force (Public Law 107–40; 50 U.S.C. 1541 note).

(5) Whereas, no authorization for the use of United States Armed Forces with respect to the conflict between Saudi-led forces and the Houthi-Saleh alliance in Yemen has been enacted, and no provision of law authorizes the provision of midair refueling services to warplanes of Saudi Arabia or the United Arab Emirates that are engaged in such conflict.

(6) Whereas, the conflict between Saudi-led forces and the Houthi-Saleh alliance in Yemen constitutes, within the meaning of section 4(a)(1) of the War Powers Resolution (50 U.S.C. 1543(a)(1)), either hostilities or a situation where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances into which United States Armed Forces have been introduced.

Therefore, be it resolved, the LNC supports H.Con.Res. 81 in accordance with section 3.3 of the Libertarian Party Platform, but advises complete removal of U.S. Armed Forces from the Republic of Yemen:

(b) Removal Of Armed Forces.—Pursuant to section 5(c) of the War Powers Resolution (50 U.S.C. 1544(c)), Congress hereby directs the President to remove United States Armed Forces from hostilities in the Republic of Yemen, except United States Armed Forces engaged in operations directed at Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula or associated forces, by not later than the date that is 30 days after the date of the adoption of this concurrent resolution (unless the President requests and the Congress authorizes a later date), and unless and until a declaration of war or specific authorization for such use of United States Armed Forces has been enacted.

-----------------End of Resolution Text-----------------

-Alicia

______________________________ _________________
Lnc-business mailing list
Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listi nfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

______________________________ _________________
Lnc-business mailing list
Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listi nfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

______________________________ _________________
Lnc-business mailing list
Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listi nfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

-- 
In Liberty,Caryn Ann HarlosRegion 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.orgCommunications Director, Libertarian Party of ColoradoChair, LP Historical Preservation Committee

A haiku to the Statement of Principles:We defend your rightsAnd oppose the use of forceTaxation is theft

______________________________ _________________
Lnc-business mailing list
Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listi nfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

______________________________ _________________
Lnc-business mailing list
Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listi nfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

______________________________ _________________
Lnc-business mailing list
Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listi nfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

______________________________ _________________
Lnc-business mailing list
Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listi nfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

-- 
In Liberty,Caryn Ann HarlosRegion 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.orgCommunications Director, Libertarian Party of ColoradoChair, LP Historical Preservation Committee

A haiku to the Statement of Principles:We defend your rightsAnd oppose the use of forceTaxation is theft

______________________________ _________________
Lnc-business mailing list
Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listi nfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

______________________________ _________________
Lnc-business mailing list
Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listi nfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

-- 
In Liberty,Caryn Ann HarlosRegion 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.orgCommunications Director, Libertarian Party of ColoradoChair, LP Historical Preservation Committee

A haiku to the Statement of Principles:We defend your rightsAnd oppose the use of forceTaxation is theft

______________________________ _________________
Lnc-business mailing list
Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
http://hq.lp.org/mailman/ listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp. org

_______________________________________________
Lnc-business mailing list
Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://hq.lp.org/pipermail/lnc-business/attachments/20171024/fbf8d572/attachment-0002.html>

[Lnc-business] ***SPAM*** Re: Email Ballot 2017-19 : Yemen Resolution

[Lnc-business] SPAM Re: Email Ballot 2017-19 : Yemen Resolution