[Lnc-business] Public views on immigration

Caryn Ann Harlos caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
Fri Jan 26 00:04:02 EST 2018


In LP circles, I hear more "get rid of the welfare state first" which
effectively means nothing will happen.  Because we can do that with nearly
every positive change.

On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 8:10 PM, Starchild <starchild at lp.org> wrote:

>     I've noticed the same thing Joshua, and often proposed exactly the
>    remedy you mention. And like you, I curiously have yet to meet anyone
>    purportedly opposed only to "illegal" immigration who's willing to
>    support this obvious solution.   :-)  These people are simply
>    anti-immigrant, but try to hide behind an ostensible interest in making
>    sure people follow the law.
>
>    To which I also generally reply, that if you want people to follow the
>    law, you should support upholding the Constitution, which except for
>    the importation of slaves after 1808, gives the federal government no
>    legal authority to regulate immigration (who can enter the country),
>    only naturalization (the process of becoming a citizen).
>
>    Love & Liberty,
>
>                                        ((( starchild )))
>
>    At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>
>                             [1]RealReform at earthlink.net
>                                    (415) 625-FREE
>
>    On Jan 25, 2018, at 6:51 PM, Joshua Katz wrote:
>
>      As just a personal observation, I have noticed an uptick in the use
>    of
>      the phrase "no, I have no problem with legal immigration, it's
>    illegal
>      immigration I have a problem with."  Which makes sense at first
>    blush,
>      but it so often turns out that the person who says it also opposes
>      expanding legal immigration, or supports decreasing legal
>    immigration.
>      The statement that all legal immigration is fine, and all illegal
>      immigration is bad, would seem to logically lead to the conclusion
>    that
>      we should simply do away with all restrictions on immigration, thus
>      increasing a good thing (legal immigration) and eliminating a bad
>    thing
>      (illegal immigration), yet I've never met a person who makes this
>    claim
>      and supports doing away with all restrictions.  It strikes me as a
>      strange thing to say.
>      Joshua A. Katz
>      On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 8:24 PM, Starchild <[1]starchild at lp.org>
>    wrote:
>           With talk of building a wall, the increased recent visibility of
>           sharply xenophobic and racist views in the era of Trump, etc.,
>        things
>           may not seem rosy for libertarian views in this area. But the
>        situation
>           is better than it appears at first blush: According to Gallup
>        polling,
>           more people want to maintain levels of legal immigration than
>    cut
>        them,
>           and the number who want to *increase* legal immigration has
>    risen
>           significantly over the past couple decades:
>             "For decades, Gallup has asked Americans if they think the
>        level of
>             legal immigration should be 'kept at its present level,
>        increased,
>             or decreased.' In recent years, Americans have been closely
>        split
>             between holding steady (38 percent as of June 2017) and
>        decreasing
>             (35 percent). The remainder, around 1 in 4, want to increase
>        legal
>             immigration.
>             While the clear majority want to decrease or hold legal
>        immigration
>             steady, these numbers represent a longer-term pro-immigration
>        shift
>             � as of the mid-1990s, two-thirds of Americans wanted to
>        decrease
>             legal immigration, and only 6 or 7 percent wanted to increase
>        it."
>           (From
>           [1][2]https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-
>        latest-immigration
>           -polls-do-and-dont-say )
>           This makes sense � the world continues to become more
>        interconnected,
>           the Internet is transcending borders, and young people tend to
>    be
>        more
>           immigration-friendly than older people.
>           People may not be embracing freedom as quickly as we would
>        prefer, but
>           I think the long term trends remain mostly positive and that
>        humanity
>           continues to gradually move in a libertarian direction. Our
>        leadership
>           in being out in front of that curve is vital.
>           Love & Liberty,
>                                              ((( starchild )))
>           At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>                                    [2][3]RealReform at earthlink.net
>                                            (415) 625-FREE
>        References
>           1. [4]https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-latest-
>        immigration-polls-do-and-dont-say
>           2. mailto:[5]RealReform at earthlink.net
>        _______________________________________________
>        Lnc-business mailing list
>        [6]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>        [7]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>    References
>      1. [2]mailto:starchild at lp.org
>      2.
>    [3]https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-latest-immigration
>      3. [4]mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
>      4.
>    [5]https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-latest-immigration
>    -polls-do-and-dont-say
>      5. [6]mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
>      6. [7]mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>      7. [8]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>    _______________________________________________
>    Lnc-business mailing list
>    [9]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>    http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>
> References
>
>    1. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
>    2. mailto:starchild at lp.org
>    3. https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-latest-immigration
>    4. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
>    5. https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-latest-
> immigration-polls-do-and-dont-say
>    6. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
>    7. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>    8. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>    9. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
   In LP circles, I hear more "get rid of the welfare state first" which
   effectively means nothing will happen.  Because we can do that with
   nearly every positive change.

   On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 8:10 PM, Starchild <[1]starchild at lp.org> wrote:

         I've noticed the same thing Joshua, and often proposed exactly
     the
        remedy you mention. And like you, I curiously have yet to meet
     anyone
        purportedly opposed only to "illegal" immigration who's willing
     to
        support this obvious solution.   :-)  These people are simply
        anti-immigrant, but try to hide behind an ostensible interest in
     making
        sure people follow the law.
        To which I also generally reply, that if you want people to
     follow the
        law, you should support upholding the Constitution, which except
     for
        the importation of slaves after 1808, gives the federal
     government no
        legal authority to regulate immigration (who can enter the
     country),
        only naturalization (the process of becoming a citizen).
        Love & Liberty,
                                            ((( starchild )))
        At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
                                 [1][2]RealReform at earthlink.net
                                        (415) 625-FREE

      On Jan 25, 2018, at 6:51 PM, Joshua Katz wrote:
        As just a personal observation, I have noticed an uptick in the
   use
      of
        the phrase "no, I have no problem with legal immigration, it's
      illegal
        immigration I have a problem with."  Which makes sense at first
      blush,
        but it so often turns out that the person who says it also opposes
        expanding legal immigration, or supports decreasing legal
      immigration.
        The statement that all legal immigration is fine, and all illegal
        immigration is bad, would seem to logically lead to the conclusion
      that
        we should simply do away with all restrictions on immigration,
   thus
        increasing a good thing (legal immigration) and eliminating a bad
      thing
        (illegal immigration), yet I've never met a person who makes this
      claim
        and supports doing away with all restrictions.  It strikes me as a
        strange thing to say.
        Joshua A. Katz
        On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 8:24 PM, Starchild
   <[1][3]starchild at lp.org>
      wrote:
             With talk of building a wall, the increased recent visibility
   of
             sharply xenophobic and racist views in the era of Trump,
   etc.,
          things
             may not seem rosy for libertarian views in this area. But the
          situation
             is better than it appears at first blush: According to Gallup
          polling,
             more people want to maintain levels of legal immigration than
      cut
          them,
             and the number who want to *increase* legal immigration has
      risen
             significantly over the past couple decades:
               "For decades, Gallup has asked Americans if they think the
          level of
               legal immigration should be 'kept at its present level,
          increased,
               or decreased.' In recent years, Americans have been closely
          split
               between holding steady (38 percent as of June 2017) and
          decreasing
               (35 percent). The remainder, around 1 in 4, want to
   increase
          legal
               immigration.
               While the clear majority want to decrease or hold legal
          immigration
               steady, these numbers represent a longer-term
   pro-immigration
          shift

                 � as of the mid-1990s, two-thirds of Americans wanted to
            decrease
                 legal immigration, and only 6 or 7 percent wanted to
     increase
            it."
               (From
               [1][2][4]https://www.npr.org/
     2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-
            latest-immigration
               -polls-do-and-dont-say )
               This makes sense � the world continues to become more

          interconnected,
             the Internet is transcending borders, and young people tend
   to
      be
          more
             immigration-friendly than older people.
             People may not be embracing freedom as quickly as we would
          prefer, but
             I think the long term trends remain mostly positive and that
          humanity
             continues to gradually move in a libertarian direction. Our
          leadership
             in being out in front of that curve is vital.
             Love & Liberty,
                                                ((( starchild )))
             At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
                                      [2][3][5]RealReform at earthlink.net
                                              (415) 625-FREE
          References
             1. [4][6]https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-
   latest-
          immigration-polls-do-and-dont-say
             2. mailto:[5][7]RealReform at earthlink.net
          _______________________________________________
          Lnc-business mailing list
          [6][8]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
          [7][9]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
      References

          1. [2]mailto:[10]starchild at lp.org
          2.
        [3][11]https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-
     latest-immigration
          3. [4]mailto:[12]RealReform at earthlink.net
          4.
        [5][13]https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-
     latest-immigration
        -polls-do-and-dont-say
          5. [6]mailto:[14]RealReform at earthlink.net
          6. [7]mailto:[15]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
          7. [8][16]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/
     mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
        _______________________________________________
        Lnc-business mailing list
        [9][17]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
        [18]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
     References
        1. mailto:[19]RealReform at earthlink.net
        2. mailto:[20]starchild at lp.org
        3. [21]https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-latest-
     immigration
        4. mailto:[22]RealReform at earthlink.net
        5. [23]https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-latest-
     immigration-polls-do-and-dont-say
        6. mailto:[24]RealReform at earthlink.net
        7. mailto:[25]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
        8. [26]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
        9. mailto:[27]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
     _______________________________________________
     Lnc-business mailing list
     [28]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
     [29]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business

References

   1. mailto:starchild at lp.org
   2. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
   3. mailto:starchild at lp.org
   4. https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-
   5. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
   6. https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-latest-
   7. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
   8. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
   9. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
  10. mailto:starchild at lp.org
  11. https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-latest-immigration
  12. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
  13. https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-latest-immigration
  14. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
  15. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  16. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
  17. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  18. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
  19. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
  20. mailto:starchild at lp.org
  21. https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-latest-immigration
  22. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
  23. https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-latest-immigration-polls-do-and-dont-say
  24. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
  25. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  26. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
  27. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  28. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  29. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business


More information about the Lnc-business mailing list