[Lnc-business] Fwd: Email Ballot 2018-06: Add Zoom
Alicia Mattson
alicia.mattson at lp.org
Tue Jun 19 04:16:06 EDT 2018
And here was my express abstention that was listed in the results. -Alicia
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Alicia Mattson <alicia.mattson at lp.org>
Date: Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: Email Ballot 2018-06: Add Zoom
To: Alicia Mattson <alicia.mattson at lp.org>
I abstain.
I would have voted "yes" except for the proposed changes to sections (i)
and (p).
I am disappointed that some seem to be making the decision with little more
analysis beyond " Zoom: it doesn’t suck".
Because I was not willing to act on such minimal information, I spent some
time kicking the tires on Zoom this week. There are some things that I
like better about Zoom, but there are definitely other things that I like
better about Adobe Connect.
I've used Adobe Connect many times, and I've only had one bad experience
with it. I have come to the conclusion that the one unpleasant experience
was likely caused by me hosting via wi-fi, rather than via a wired internet
connection. When I've used wired connections, it has been pretty good.
A very important factor for me is whether the platform has features to
facilitate a Robert's Rules meeting. Zoom has those features, so I am
comfortable with allowing it as a meeting option. Below are my comments
comparing the two options.
*Features that are better in Adobe Connect:*
- Participant list is sorted alphabetically. Under those conditions,
putting "zz" in front of guest names sorts them to the bottom of the list
so that all voting members are grouped at the top. In Zoom, the
participants seem to be listed based on the order in which they joined, and
I haven't found an option to re-sort them. If 50 guests join an LNC
meeting in Zoom, finding the eligible voters will be a bigger pain.
- Most meeting settings can be changed on the fly during the meeting.
In Zoom, many features can only be turned on/off before the meeting
starts. To change those settings requires ending the meeting, making the
change, and re-starting the meeting.
- Admin has much more control over the different information modules on
the screen, including size and placement of them.
- Has a discussion notes pod which can be used to allow the admin (or
anyone the admin grants permission) to essentially take minutes right there
on the same screen as the meeting, so participants can see the wording of
the motions, can compare language in substitute motions. In Zoom the
secretary could do a screen share, but it's not integrated with the screen
showing other video, chat pod, and participant list info. Other
live-action information takes a back seat to the screen share. The
secretary can take notes off-line instead, but then the secretary is
switching screens between the meeting and a text editing application.
*Features that are better in Zoom:*
- Telephone participation is integrated into the system at no additional
charge. In Adobe Connect, the admin has to take some additional steps to
connect a bridge to the teleconference system, and we pay per minute for
use of the phone system. I have not been in a Zoom meeting to experience
the phone connection quality. In Adobe Connect, there are times that the
teleconference bridge temporarily drops and can take about a minute to
re-connect the phone participants to the computer participants.
- If your video camera isn't on, you can load a still-photo avatar to
display to represent you, or as a default it will display just a block with
your name. It's both a blessing and a curse, however. With few
participants, it seems like a neat feature. If you have 50 participants,
though... In Adobe Connect the area of the screen dedicated to video is
only used for actual video feeds. In Zoom, the still photos share the same
real-estate with the videos, so some of your real estate is taken up by
photos which do not convey live info, and you have to scroll to see other
live video feeds.
Overall, I think Adobe Connect will still be my preferred option, but to be
fair, I haven't had as much experience with Zoom yet.
-Alicia
On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 9:34 PM, Alicia Mattson <alicia.mattson at lp.org>
wrote:
> We have an electronic mail ballot.
>
>
> *Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by June 2, 2018 at 11:59:59pm
> Pacific time.*
> *Co-Sponsors:* Harlos, Goldstein, Demarest, O'Donnell, Van Horn
>
> *Motion:* Amend Policy Manual Section 1.02.7 Electronic Meetings as
> follows:
>
> a) The term “electronic meeting” within these electronic meeting rules
> shall be construed to include teleconferences and videoconferences.
>
> b) The term “committee” within these electronic meeting rules shall be
> construed to include both the LNC (as the board of the Libertarian Party)
> as well as committees.
>
> c) All videoconferences will be conducted via the Adobe Connect (Citrix)
> service, hereinafter referred to as Adobe Connect* or via Zoom (zoom.us
> <http://zoom.us>). These two services are hereinafter referred to as
> Electronic Meeting Provider(s)*.
>
> […]
>
> e) Each committee member calling for an electronic meeting must do so by
> emailing the entire committee and specifying the date of the meeting, time
> of the meeting, *meeting link including the identity of the Electronic
> Meeting Provider, *and the topic(s) to be addressed. Meetings must be so
> called no fewer than 2 days in advance for committees with fewer than 10
> members, or 7 days in advance for committees with 10 or more members. These
> time limits do not apply to the LNC's Executive Committee, the LNC's
> Advertising and Publications Review Committee, or the Judicial Committee.
>
> […]
>
> h) Each participant must provide his own equipment and connectivity,
> including but not limited to any computer, internet access, web camera,
> microphone, earphones, or telephone. Members and alternates have the right
> to participate in an electronic meeting by telephone, however they should
> use a computer connection if feasible so as to be able to more fully use
> the Adobe Connect *Electronic Meeting Provider *features. The
> organization is not responsible for providing a central location for
> physical attendance of an electronic meeting. For face-to- face meetings,
> electronic participation is not allowed.
>
> i) Each participant must accurately identify himself by name when joining
> the meeting. Videoconference participants other than members or alternates
> of the committee must precede their sign-in name with “zz” *(or the group
> administrator shall do so) *so as to group them at the end of the
> alphabetical participant list.
>
> […]
>
> n) If the committee permits, participants other than members or alternates
> of the committee may observe videoconferences using Adobe Connect *the
> Electronic Meeting Provider *(and not by a toll-free number) with their
> web cameras off and their microphones muted.
>
> o) The LNC Secretary shall promulgate these rules to all
> members/alternates of each committee upon notice of their election or
> appointment.
>
> *p) Arrangements for use of the Electronic Meeting Provides must be made
> through the LNC Secretary who may be required to be present to administer
> the meeting which might limit available days for use.*
>
>
>
>
> -Alicia
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
And here was my express abstention that was listed in the results.
-Alicia
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Alicia Mattson <[1]alicia.mattson at lp.org>
Date: Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: Email Ballot 2018-06: Add Zoom
To: Alicia Mattson <[2]alicia.mattson at lp.org>
I abstain.
I would have voted "yes" except for the proposed changes to sections
(i) and (p).
I am disappointed that some seem to be making the decision with little
more analysis beyond " Zoom: it doesn’t suck".
Because I was not willing to act on such minimal information, I spent
some time kicking the tires on Zoom this week. There are some things
that I like better about Zoom, but there are definitely other things
that I like better about Adobe Connect.
I've used Adobe Connect many times, and I've only had one bad
experience with it. I have come to the conclusion that the one
unpleasant experience was likely caused by me hosting via wi-fi, rather
than via a wired internet connection. When I've used wired
connections, it has been pretty good.
A very important factor for me is whether the platform has features to
facilitate a Robert's Rules meeting. Zoom has those features, so I am
comfortable with allowing it as a meeting option. Below are my
comments comparing the two options.
Features that are better in Adobe Connect:
* Participant list is sorted alphabetically. Under those conditions,
putting "zz" in front of guest names sorts them to the bottom of
the list so that all voting members are grouped at the top. In
Zoom, the participants seem to be listed based on the order in
which they joined, and I haven't found an option to re-sort them.
If 50 guests join an LNC meeting in Zoom, finding the eligible
voters will be a bigger pain.
* Most meeting settings can be changed on the fly during the
meeting. In Zoom, many features can only be turned on/off before
the meeting starts. To change those settings requires ending the
meeting, making the change, and re-starting the meeting.
* Admin has much more control over the different information modules
on the screen, including size and placement of them.
* Has a discussion notes pod which can be used to allow the admin (or
anyone the admin grants permission) to essentially take minutes
right there on the same screen as the meeting, so participants can
see the wording of the motions, can compare language in substitute
motions. In Zoom the secretary could do a screen share, but it's
not integrated with the screen showing other video, chat pod, and
participant list info. Other live-action information takes a back
seat to the screen share. The secretary can take notes off-line
instead, but then the secretary is switching screens between the
meeting and a text editing application.
Features that are better in Zoom:
* Telephone participation is integrated into the system at no
additional charge. In Adobe Connect, the admin has to take some
additional steps to connect a bridge to the teleconference system,
and we pay per minute for use of the phone system. I have not been
in a Zoom meeting to experience the phone connection quality. In
Adobe Connect, there are times that the teleconference bridge
temporarily drops and can take about a minute to re-connect the
phone participants to the computer participants.
* If your video camera isn't on, you can load a still-photo avatar to
display to represent you, or as a default it will display just a
block with your name. It's both a blessing and a curse, however.
With few participants, it seems like a neat feature. If you have
50 participants, though... In Adobe Connect the area of the screen
dedicated to video is only used for actual video feeds. In Zoom,
the still photos share the same real-estate with the videos, so
some of your real estate is taken up by photos which do not convey
live info, and you have to scroll to see other live video feeds.
Overall, I think Adobe Connect will still be my preferred option, but
to be fair, I haven't had as much experience with Zoom yet.
-Alicia
On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 9:34 PM, Alicia Mattson
<[3]alicia.mattson at lp.org> wrote:
We have an electronic mail ballot.
Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by June 2, 2018 at 11:59:59pm
Pacific time.
Co-Sponsors: Harlos, Goldstein, Demarest, O'Donnell, Van Horn
Motion: Amend Policy Manual Section 1.02.7 Electronic Meetings as
follows:
a) The term “electronic meeting” within these electronic meeting rules
shall be construed to include teleconferences and videoconferences.
b) The term “committee” within these electronic meeting rules shall be
construed to include both the LNC (as the board of the Libertarian
Party) as well as committees.
c) All videoconferences will be conducted via the Adobe Connect
(Citrix) service[DEL: , hereinafter referred to as Adobe Connect :DEL]
or via Zoom ([4]zoom.us). These two services are hereinafter referred
to as Electronic Meeting Provider(s).
[…]
e) Each committee member calling for an electronic meeting must do so
by emailing the entire committee and specifying the date of the
meeting, time of the meeting, meeting link including the identity of
the Electronic Meeting Provider, and the topic(s) to be addressed.
Meetings must be so called no fewer than 2 days in advance for
committees with fewer than 10 members, or 7 days in advance for
committees with 10 or more members. These time limits do not apply to
the LNC's Executive Committee, the LNC's Advertising and Publications
Review Committee, or the Judicial Committee.
[…]
h) Each participant must provide his own equipment and connectivity,
including but not limited to any computer, internet access, web camera,
microphone, earphones, or telephone. Members and alternates have the
right to participate in an electronic meeting by telephone, however
they should use a computer connection if feasible so as to be able to
more fully use the [DEL: Adobe Connect :DEL] Electronic Meeting
Provider features. The organization is not responsible for providing a
central location for physical attendance of an electronic meeting. For
face-to- face meetings, electronic participation is not allowed.
i) Each participant must accurately identify himself by name when
joining the meeting. Videoconference participants other than members or
alternates of the committee must precede their sign-in name with “zz”
(or the group administrator shall do so) so as to group them at the end
of the alphabetical participant list.
[…]
n) If the committee permits, participants other than members or
alternates of the committee may observe videoconferences using [DEL:
Adobe Connect :DEL] the Electronic Meeting Provider (and not by a
toll-free number) with their web cameras off and their microphones
muted.
o) The LNC Secretary shall promulgate these rules to all
members/alternates of each committee upon notice of their election or
appointment.
p) Arrangements for use of the Electronic Meeting Provides must be made
through the LNC Secretary who may be required to be present to
administer the meeting which might limit available days for use.
-Alicia
References
1. mailto:alicia.mattson at lp.org
2. mailto:alicia.mattson at lp.org
3. mailto:alicia.mattson at lp.org
4. http://zoom.us/
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