[Lnc-business] Agenda in Phoenix
Craig Bowden
craig.bowden at lp.org
Sat Jul 21 12:20:01 EDT 2018
We have been going over this, in circles, for two weeks. The facts are
the there were several balls dropped and we have no authority to do
anything, including a re-ballot.
Article 8(1): "The Judicial Committee shall be composed of seven Party
members elected at each Regular
Convention..." While I understand this has been changed to reflect
non-Presidential years, the reality is that we do not have the authority
to send out a ballot outside of a Regular convention under our bylaws.
We are going to have to deal with this at a Regular Convention. That is
the reality. That is the hard bullet that we all must bite for our parts
in the failure. Whether we didn't raise objections, didn't stay on the
floor, or moved to adjourn before addressing.
This is what we must accept. There is no JC.
Craig Bowden
Region 1 Alternate
On 2018-07-21 10:00, brent.olsen--- via Lnc-business wrote:
> Actually, I think rejection of the one which "exists" is recognition
> that one was not elected and you can't just dictatorially say that
> because you were in the top seven in the voting at the convention you
> are now the JC. It is a violation of the Bylaws. I challenge their
> legitimacy. Same argument against us acknowledging them is in place
> here - there was no proper election of them at convention.
>
> -Brent
>
> On 2018-07-20 21:47, Richard Longstreth via Lnc-business wrote:
>> I dont understand. Is your Region refusing to acknowledge that there
>> is
>> a JC? Is it passive denial or a rejection of the one that exists?
>> The
>> distinction is quite important because one does exist and a
>> rejection
>> is, in essence, a rejection of a part of the national party.
>>
>> Richard
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 20, 2018, 21:11 Elizabeth Van Horn
>> <[1]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org> wrote:
>>
>> I'd replied to John Phillips, he's the Region 6 rep.
>> Also, I've already stated my position. I'd wanted to have the LNC
>> approve the top seven, I co-sponsored that motion. Only, when took
>> the
>> discussion to my region, multiple members, including officers,
>> state
>> chairs, VCs, etc, of Region 3 were adamant that under our bylaws
>> there's no JC, and no way to get one. Me stating this on the LNC
>> email
>> list is just that, me stating what my region has said, and wants.
>> I've no idea why you're making comments about "do not turn this
>> personal"?? I've said nothing personal. Don't project onto me.
>> What I have done is point out that another regional rep isn't
>> speaking
>> for my region.
>> As for my reply to the LNC Secretary, the same. An officer has a
>> particular role, otherwise, they have one vote, same as anyone on
>> the
>> LNC. The LNC secretary asked people to confer with the registered
>> parliamentarian, and I have, and I've also read his views on this
>> subject. I went through the bylaws carefully, and got feedback
>> from an
>> officer in my own state affiliate, officers from the other state
>> affiliates in my region, etc. My statements are the result of
>> listening to the members in my region. I've done due diligence on
>> this
>> issue. I've not going to take the time to listen to my region, and
>> then
>> ignore them.
>> My representation and advocacy is for my region.
>> ---
>> Elizabeth Van Horn
>>
>> On 2018-07-20 18:10, Richard Longstreth wrote:
>>
>> My Region says that the Top 7 should be and we should move on. We
>> cannot simply "You do your region, and I'll do mine."
>> First off, the person you said that to is an Officer. Therefore,
>> her
>> Region in is the entirety of membership and she IS expressing her
>> thoughts from her 'region'. Your words give off the air of
>> flippancy
>> and are borderline offensive to me as one whom the comments were
>> not
>> directed toward. This is not how we should be interacting as
>> officers
>> and certainly not a way to advance the Party. We need to work
>> together,
>> not have an attitude of every region for themselves.
>>
>> Secondly, there is a difference between our Regions, EVH. Mine says
>> that the Top 7 are the JC yours says that we don't have a JC. Both
>> situations cannot exist simultaneously and this NEEDS to be
>> resolved
>> and finalized for all members. I cannot tell my states that a JC
>> exists
>> for Region 1 but not for Region 3; that is absurd.
>>
>> Finally, I have dropped this discussion if we acknowledge that the
>> JC
>> exists and is the Top 7 - something I abstained from orginally, but
>> see
>> as the only logical solution going forward. If not, we need to
>> discuss
>> this further which is the will of neither of our regions or that of
>> the
>> general membership. Most want to move on from the issue. The LNC as
>> a
>> body did not approve the Top 7. The former JC came up with a
>> solution
>> and that is to put the Top 7 in place. If we, as an LNC or Regional
>> Representative do not acknowledge that solution we are creating a
>> deep
>> divide in the Party.
>>
>> Thoughts? Please do not turn this personal. I want to work with you
>> to
>> find a resolution that suits all parties involved.
>>
>> Richard
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 11:46 AM Elizabeth Van Horn via
>> Lnc-business
>> <[2]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>
>> I was in favor of the LNC approving the top seven JC
>> candidates.
>> But,
>> my region isn't, and leadership has let me know that they
>> think
>> there's
>> no JC.
>> I'm not sure what you're going on about. I'm not arguing. Nor,
>> am
>> I
>> doing anything, other than stating what my region thinks.
>> You do your region, and I'll do mine.
>> ---
>> Elizabeth Van Horn
>> LNC Region 3 (IN, MI, OH, KY)
>> Secretary Libertarian Party of Madison Co, Indiana
>> LP Social Media Process Review Committee
>> Vice-Chair Libertarian Pragmatist Caucus
>> [1][3]http://www.lpcaucus.org/
>> On 2018-07-20 13:26, [4]john.phillips at lp.org wrote:
>> Shrug. If I wanted to take it to a court of law I would have
>> a
>> 50/50
>> shot imho, and that of the 8 lawyers I asked to look at it.
>> Some
>> of
>> them thought they could win maybe 70%.
>> So i would say the argument for them being the JC is as good
>> as
>> the
>> argument against.
>> However, the vast majority seem to want them from what I see,
>> so
>> I fail
>> to see the issue that people keep making of this. Just accept
>> it
>> and
>> move on, it is what we should have done from the beginning.
>> On a personal note. Are we not Libertarians? I find the
>> arguments of
>> rules and legality disturbingly dogmatic. We argue all the
>> time
>> about
>> changing bad laws and rules that have created a problem, but
>> when
>> it
>> comes down to our rules failing we can't adjust? Seems sort of
>> hypocritical to me, actually far more than sort of.
>> So my stance is this. I stand opposed to anything that
>> continues
>> to
>> drag this out. I stand opposed to anything other than
>> accepting
>> the
>> recommendation of the previous JC and what appears to me to be
>> the will
>> of vast majority of our constituents. The correct route in my
>> not so
>> humble opinion is that we accept them, get the hell out of the
>> way,
>> move on, and hope we don't need them like the last LNC didn't.
>> John Phillips
>> Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
>> Cell [2]217-412-5973
>> ------ Original message------
>> From: Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business
>> Date: Fri, Jul 20, 2018 11:32 AM
>> To: Caryn Ann Harlos;
>> Cc: Elizabeth Van Horn[3];[5]lnc-business at hq.lp.org;
>> Subject:Re: [Lnc-business] Agenda in Phoenix
>> They can disagree all they want. But, there's no authority for
>> them.
>> ---
>> Elizabeth Van Horn
>> On [4]2018-07-20 11:08, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>> > There's a JC presently electing its chair that disagrees.
>> >
>> > On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 8:24 AM Elizabeth Van Horn wrote:
>> >
>> >> There's no JC, so no resolution can be made.
>> >>
>> >> ---
>> >> Elizabeth Van Horn
>> >>
>> >> On [5]2018-07-20 08:58, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business
>> wrote:
>> >>> It seems that the JC took it upon itself to resolve - it is
>> up
>> to the
>> >>> membership to complain about that if they wish. I submit we
>> simply
>> >>> go
>> >>> on about our jobs and stay out of it.
>> >>> -Caryn Ann
>> >>>
>> >>> On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 6:22 AM, Richard Longstreth via
>> Lnc-business
>> >>> <[1[6]][6]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> I am assuming that JC will be an agenda item in Phoenix. If
>> >>> not,
>> >>> could
>> >>> we please add it? If not, are we done with that discussion
>> and
>> >>> simply
>> >>> not having a JC or what are the next points of discussion? I
>> >>> want
>> >>> to
>> >>> fully resolve this issue the best we can and move forward. I
>> >>> abstained
>> >>> last vote to approve but my mind is still not settled.
>> >>> There is no good solution here, but one of may state chairs
>> put
>> >>> very
>> >>> simply:
>> >>> "I find this whole debacle with process to be detrimental and
>> >>> don't
>> >>> really care one way or the other how it pans out. Nobody is
>> >>> going
>> >>> to be
>> >>> 100% on this as is evidenced by the gridlock on some of the
>> >>> first
>> >>> true
>> >>> membership affecting votes from the LNC."
>> >>> We need to resolve and move forward.
>> >>> Richard
>> >>> --
>> >>> Richard Longstreth
>> >>> Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, KS, MT, NM, OR, HI, UT,
>> >>> WA,
>> >>> WY)
>> >>> Libertarian National Committee
>> >>> [1][2[7]][7]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> >>> [8]931.538.9300
>> >>> References
>> >>> 1. mailto:[3[9]][8]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> --
>> >>> In Liberty,
>> >>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>> >>> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
>> Secretary
>> >>> - [4][10]Caryn.Ann.[11] Harlos at LP.org or[12]
>> Secretary at LP.org.
>> >>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -[13]
>> LPedia at LP.org
>> >>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>> >>> We defend your rights
>> >>> And oppose the use of force
>> >>> Taxation is theft
>> >>>
>> >>> References
>> >>>
>> >>> 1. mailto[14]:[9]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> >>> 2. mailto[15]:[10]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> >>> 3. mailto[16]:[11]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> >>> 4. mailto[17]:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>> > --
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > IN LIBERTY,
>> > CARYN ANN HARLOS
>> > Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
>> -
>> [18]Caryn.Ann
>> .[19] Harlos at LP.org or[20] Secretary at LP.org.
>> > Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -[21] LPedia at LP.org
>> >
>> > A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>> > _We defend your rights_
>> > _And oppose the use of force_
>> > _Taxation is theft_
>> They can disagree all they want. But, there's no authority
>> for
>> them.
>> ---
>> Elizabeth Van Horn
>> On [22]2018-07-20 11:08, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>> There's a JC presently electing its chair that disagrees.
>> On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 8:24 AM Elizabeth Van Horn
>> <[1[23]][12]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org> wrote:
>> There's no JC, so no resolution can be made.
>> ---
>> Elizabeth Van Horn
>> On [24]2018-07-20 08:58, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business
>> wrote:
>> > It seems that the JC took it upon itself to resolve - it
>> is
>> up to
>> the
>> > membership to complain about that if they wish. I
>> submit
>> we
>> simply
>> > go
>> > on about our jobs and stay out of it.
>> > -Caryn Ann
>> >
>> > On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 6:22 AM, Richard Longstreth via
>> Lnc-business
>> > <[1][2[25]][13]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > I am assuming that JC will be an agenda item in
>> Phoenix.
>> If
>> > not,
>> > could
>> > we please add it? If not, are we done with that
>> discussion
>> and
>> > simply
>> > not having a JC or what are the next points of
>> discussion?
>> I
>> > want
>> > to
>> > fully resolve this issue the best we can and move
>> forward.
>> I
>> > abstained
>> > last vote to approve but my mind is still not
>> settled.
>> > There is no good solution here, but one of may
>> state
>> chairs put
>> > very
>> > simply:
>> > "I find this whole debacle with process to be
>> detrimental
>> and
>> > don't
>> > really care one way or the other how it pans out.
>> Nobody
>> is
>> > going
>> > to be
>> > 100% on this as is evidenced by the gridlock on
>> some
>> of
>> the
>> > first
>> > true
>> > membership affecting votes from the LNC."
>> > We need to resolve and move forward.
>> > Richard
>> > --
>> > Richard Longstreth
>> > Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, KS, MT, NM,
>> OR,
>> HI,
>> UT,
>> > WA,
>> > WY)
>> > Libertarian National Committee
>> > [1][2][3[26]][14]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> > [27]931.538.9300
>> > References
>> > 1. mailto:[3][4[28]][15]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> >
>> > --
>> > --
>> > In Liberty,
>> > Caryn Ann Harlos
>> > Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
>> Secretary
>> > - [4][29]Caryn.Ann.[30] Harlos at LP.org or[31]
>> Secretary at LP.org.
>> > Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -[32]
>> LPedia at LP.org
>> > A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>> > We defend your rights
>> > And oppose the use of force
>> > Taxation is theft
>> >
>> > References
>> >
>> > 1. mailto:[5[33]][16]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> > 2. mailto:[6[34]][17]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> > 3. mailto:[7[35]][18]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> > 4. mailto:[8[36]]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>> --
>> --
>> In Liberty,
>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
>> - [9][37]Caryn.Ann.[38] Harlos at LP.org or[39] Secretary at LP.org.
>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -[40]
>> LPedia at LP.org
>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>> We defend your rights
>> And oppose the use of force
>> Taxation is theft
>> References
>> 1. mailto[41]:[19]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
>> 2. mailto[42]:[20]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 3. mailto[43]:[21]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 4. mailto[44]:[22]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 5. mailto[45]:[23]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 6. mailto[46]:[24]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 7. mailto[47]:[25]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 8. mailto[48]:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>> 9. mailto[49]:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>> References
>> 1. [26]http://www.lpcaucus.org/
>> 2. tel:[27]217-412-5973
>> 3. mailto:;[28]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 4. tel:2018-07-20 11
>> 5. tel:2018-07-20 08
>> 6. mailto:][29]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 7. mailto:][30]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 8. tel:[31]931.538.9300
>> 9. mailto:][32]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 10. [33]http://Caryn.An/
>> 11. mailto: Harlos at LP.org
>> 12. mailto: Secretary at LP.org.
>> 13. mailto: LPedia at LP.org
>> 14. mailto::[34]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 15. mailto::[35]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 16. mailto::[36]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 17. mailto::Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>> 18. [37]http://Caryn.An/
>> 19. mailto: Harlos at LP.org
>> 20. mailto: Secretary at LP.org.
>> 21. mailto: LPedia at LP.org
>> 22. tel:2018-07-20 11
>> 23. mailto:][38]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
>> 24. tel:2018-07-20 08
>> 25. mailto:][39]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 26. mailto:][40]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 27. tel:[41]931.538.9300
>> 28. mailto:][42]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 29. [43]http://Caryn.An/
>> 30. mailto: Harlos at LP.org
>> 31. mailto: Secretary at LP.org.
>> 32. mailto: LPedia at LP.org
>> 33. mailto:][44]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 34. mailto:][45]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 35. mailto:][46]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 36. mailto:]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>> 37. [47]http://Caryn.An/
>> 38. mailto: Harlos at LP.org
>> 39. mailto: Secretary at LP.org.
>> 40. mailto: LPedia at LP.org
>> 41. mailto::[48]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
>> 42. mailto::[49]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 43. mailto::[50]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 44. mailto::[51]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 45. mailto::[52]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 46. mailto::[53]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 47. mailto::[54]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 48. mailto::Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>> 49. mailto::Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>
>> --
>>
>> Richard Longstreth
>> Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, KS, MT, NM, OR, HI, UT, WA,
>> WY)
>> Libertarian National Committee
>> [55]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 931.538.9300
>>
>> --
>>
>> Richard Longstreth
>> Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, KS, MT, NM, OR, HI, UT, WA,
>> WY)
>> Libertarian National Committee
>> [56]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 931.538.9300
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1. mailto:elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
>> 2. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 3. http://www.lpcaucus.org/
>> 4. mailto:john.phillips at lp.org
>> 5. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 6. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 7. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 8. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 9. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 10. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 11. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 12. mailto:elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
>> 13. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 14. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 15. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 16. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 17. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 18. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 19. mailto:elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
>> 20. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 21. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 22. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 23. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 24. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 25. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 26. http://www.lpcaucus.org/
>> 27. tel:(217) 412-5973
>> 28. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 29. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 30. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 31. tel:(931) 538-9300
>> 32. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 33. http://Caryn.An/
>> 34. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 35. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 36. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 37. http://Caryn.An/
>> 38. mailto:elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
>> 39. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 40. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 41. tel:(931) 538-9300
>> 42. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 43. http://Caryn.An/
>> 44. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 45. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 46. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 47. http://Caryn.An/
>> 48. mailto:elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
>> 49. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 50. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 51. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 52. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 53. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 54. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 55. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 56. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
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