[Lnc-business] Seeking Co-Sponsors for Resolution to Re-Affirm The LP's Stance For Property Rights

Elizabeth Van Horn elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
Tue Aug 14 18:34:39 EDT 2018


Jeff, thank you!  Well said.  You've articulated the position of the 
caucus I belong to.
-------------------
We even say:

"We celebrate our ideological diversity.

AS LIBERTARIANS, WE'RE NOT GOING TO AGREE ON EVERYTHING - AND THAT'S OK!
What we can agree on:

We need to elect Libertarians to state and local public office.
We need to promote practical solutions to our ideological platform."
-----------------

Cheers,
EVH
---
Elizabeth Van Horn


On 2018-08-14 18:07, Jeff Lyons wrote:
> Good Afternoon,
> 
>      There are a bunch of different threads on this whole property
> rights vs. libsoc thing. I don't get where these discussions are
> going, I'm not going to go through it and as an Alternate my vote
> won't decide anything anyways.  I just think this is a completely
> fruitless effort, a waste of time, and of brainpower.
> 
>      Some Libertarians have good ideas, some have bad ideas.  The
> answer is MORE speech, more dialogue, more ideas, and the good ideas
> will always win eventually.  People are smart enough to decide for
> themselves if socialism can be voluntary or if property should be
> personally / privately owned.  Let them debate it all they want.  I
> don't think anyone who can't make a serious case for whatever their
> ideology is will last long before they learn something new and
> inevitably evolve their position.  Libertarians don't have to agree on
> everything and I don't think we should bother trying to force them to
> get along.  The people will figure it out on their own, through their
> discussions.
> 
>      I respectfully disagree there is even a need for US to have this
> discussion and vote no on whatever the resolution is because I don't
> think we really need one. At all. Ever.  That's not our job.
> 
> --
> In Liberty,
> Jeff Lyons
> 
> Region 8 Alternate
> (Acting Region 8 Rep)
> 
> Libertarian Assoc. of MA
> Membership Director
> http://www.lpmass.org/join
> 
> Daniel Fishman for Auditor
> Campaign Manager
> http://www.AuditMassachusetts.com
> 
> 
> 
> On 2018-08-14 15:37, Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business wrote:
>> BS.
>>    (all about brevity ; )
>> 
>>    ---
>>    Elizabeth Van Horn
>> 
>>    On 2018-08-14 15:34, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>> 
>>    The brevity caucus keeps the exegesis of our Platform out.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>    It becomes necessary to apply and explicate.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>    -Caryn Ann
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>    On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 1:29 PM Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business
>>    <[1]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>> 
>>      Then why not a resolution saying that the LNC stands in support 
>> of
>>      our
>>      LP platform?  Because, I think it's pretty obvious that we do.
>>      (Although, I know that the Radical caucus, Mises caucus, and
>>      libsocs,
>>      all have their *own* platforms.  I support our LP platform, and
>>      that's a
>>      founding point of the caucus I'm in, that we don't have a 
>> separate
>>      platform, we instead embrace the LP platform.
>>      Do all the board members in various caucuses want to come out in
>>      favor
>>      of the *LP Platform*?  I like to see that resolution.
>>      ---
>>      Elizabeth Van Horn
>>      On 2018-08-14 15:07, Justin O'Donnell via Lnc-business wrote:
>>      > This resolution is an affirmation of that platform and it's
>>      underlying
>>      > principles. It serves simply to acknowledge rhetoric contrary 
>> to
>>      our
>>      > platform and affirm that the Libertarian Party stands by the
>>      messaging
>>      > and platform adopted by it's delegates in convention, as 
>> opposed
>>      to
>>      > those who would argue otherwise. It does not purge anyone, but
>>      simply
>>      > distances the LP from their economic views. They are members, 
>> and
>>      many
>>      > will remain so, but the resolution is to affirm that their
>>      outspoken
>>      > beliefs do not represent the party as a whole. Some of these
>>      > individual members are even candidates in profiled races, where
>>      they
>>      > are espousing ideas contrary to our platform, and it is 
>> incumbent
>>      upon
>>      > this body to recognize that this is a risk to the integrity of 
>> our
>>      > messaging. An individual or a candidate may proclaim whatever
>>      platform
>>      > they wish, but when they claim that it is representative of
>>      > Libertarian Ideology when it is clearly contrary to our 
>> platform
>>      and
>>      > statement of principles, it requires an acknowledgement from 
>> the
>>      LNC.
>>      >
>>      > ---
>>      > Yours in Liberty,
>>      >
>>      > Justin O'Donnell
>>      > LNC Region 8 Representative
>>      > LPNH Alternate- LNC Platform Committee
>>      > Chair- LPNH Platform Committee
>>      > Candidate for US Congress, NH-2
>>      > [2]www.odonnell2018.org
>>      >
>>      > On 2018-08-14 15:01, Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business wrote:
>>      >> We have a platform that states what we stand for, and you were
>>      the
>>      >>    platform committee chair for 2018.  I was on that 
>> committee,
>>      as
>>      >> were
>>      >>    several other members of this board.
>>      >>    Did we not do our duty?  Did we leave the platform to be
>>      ambiguous
>>      >> and
>>      >>    confusing?  I don't think so.
>>      >>    Our wonderful LP platform speaks for the LP, and tells
>>      prospective
>>      >>    members where we stand.   We educate from that document, 
>> and I
>>      know
>>      >>    that you understand this, as you were instrumental in doing
>>      >> platform
>>      >>    plank posts on social media.  You know that the platform
>>      speaks for
>>      >> us
>>      >>    on issues of property rights.
>>      >>
>>      >>    ---
>>      >>    Elizabeth Van Horn
>>      >>
>>      >>    On 2018-08-14 14:55, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>      >>
>>      >>    It is quite problematic that stating the Party's 
>> foundational
>>      >>    Principles is controversial or thought to need a platform
>>      change.
>>      >>
>>      >>
>>      >>
>>      >>    We have gone far from our roots.
>>      >>
>>      >>
>>      >>
>>      >>    -Caryn Ann
>>      >>
>>      >>
>>      >>
>>      >>    On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 12:51 PM Elizabeth Van Horn via
>>      >> Lnc-business
>>      >>    <[1][3]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>      >>
>>      >>      I also would have supported the first effort (with my
>>      language
>>      >>      changes)
>>      >>      as it was a clear support of capitalism.  Too bad that
>>      wasn't
>>      >>      embraced.
>>      >>      On this list I've seen multiple times someone talk about
>>      past
>>      >>      actions as
>>      >>      a reason, (we denounced that, so why not this?) the more
>>      times I
>>      >>      see,
>>      >>      the more this looks like a grudge match.
>>      >>      As the players in this drama, and yes it's a big drama on
>>      social
>>      >>      media,
>>      >>      are ones that have had an ongoing war-of-words with the
>>      targets
>>      >> of
>>      >>      this
>>      >>      suggested resolution.  Only, some of the players also 
>> happen
>>      to
>>      >> be
>>      >>      on
>>      >>      the LNC, and are now using that position to escalate.
>>      >>      I was willing to support a resolution that embraced
>>      capitalism,
>>      >> as I
>>      >>      live my life as a capitalist. It is my economic system of
>>      choice,
>>      >>      and I
>>      >>      make an effort to teach this to others.
>>      >>      Too bad this isn't about championing the wonderful 
>> economic
>>      >> system
>>      >>      of
>>      >>      capitalism, but instead is about targeting a few noisy LP
>>      >> members.
>>      >>      ---
>>      >>      Elizabeth Van Horn
>>      >>      On 2018-08-14 14:26, john.phillips--- via Lnc-business
>>      wrote:
>>      >>      > This is not the same language as was presented and
>>      discussed
>>      >>      earlier.
>>      >>      >    Just to clarify for people who may just be skimming.
>>      >>      >    I probably would have gone along with the first.  
>> This
>>      one
>>      >> is
>>      >>      toxic
>>      >>      > and
>>      >>      >    the language clearly meant to be be a purge.
>>      >>      >    If it was just a supporting of property rights I 
>> would
>>      >>      absolutely
>>      >>      >    support it.  This is far more than that, and 
>> honestly
>>      far
>>      >>      exceeds
>>      >>      > the
>>      >>      >    scope of the duties of this body.  It is a direct
>>      change to
>>      >>      policy
>>      >>      >    seriously impacts current members and activists.
>>      >>      >    If you want a platform change take it to Austin. 
>> That
>>      is not
>>      >>      our
>>      >>      > job.
>>      >>      >    I will be voting no on this, and urge everyone else 
>> to
>>      >>      seriously
>>      >>      >    consider whether they support a precedent of purging
>>      groups.
>>      >>      Not to
>>      >>      >    mention how many of you during the JC discussion 
>> were
>>      >> treading
>>      >>      very
>>      >>      >    carefully about not exceeding our scope, a point 
>> that
>>      was
>>      >> well
>>      >>      taken
>>      >>      >    after reflection, will you be consistent here?
>>      >>      >    John Phillips
>>      >>      >    Libertarian National Committee Region 6 
>> Representative
>>      >>      >    Cell [1]217-412-5973
>>      >>      >
>>      >>      >    ------ Original message------
>>      >>      >    From: Steven Nekhaila via Lnc-business
>>      >>      >    Date: Tue, Aug 14, 2018 10:50 AM
>>      >>      >    To: LNC-Business List;
>>      >>      >    Cc: Steven Nekhaila;
>>      >>      >    Subject:[Lnc-business] Seeking Co-Sponsors for
>>      Resolution to
>>      >>      > Re-Affirm
>>      >>      >    The LP's Stance For Property Rights
>>      >>      > Dear Colleagues,
>>      >>      >
>>      >>      > I invite you to co-sponsor the following resolution 
>> which
>>      >> disavows
>>      >>      > socialist & communist policies and re-affirms the
>>      Libertarian
>>      >>      Party
>>      >>      > position on championing property rights.
>>      >>      >
>>      >>      > Co-Sponsors: Joshua Smith, Justin O'Donnel, and Caryn 
>> Ann
>>      >> Harlos
>>      >>      >
>>      >>      > WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party supports the free market
>>      and
>>      >>      therefore
>>      >>      > the right of privatization of property as an extension 
>> of
>>      the
>>      >>      > individual;
>>      >>      >
>>      >>      > WHEREAS, the Statement of Principles of The Libertarian
>>      Party
>>      >>      > explicitly
>>      >>      > supports the right to private property ownership,
>>      including the
>>      >>      right
>>      >>      > to
>>      >>      > do business utilizing that property as capital;
>>      >>      >
>>      >>      > WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party strongly supports the
>>      rights of
>>      >>      > individuals to own private property including land,
>>      structures,
>>      >>      natural
>>      >>      > resources and other private space through homesteading,
>>      >> purchase,
>>      >>      and
>>      >>      > other lawful libertarian means;
>>      >>      >
>>      >>      > WHEREAS, ownership of private property, including but 
>> not
>>      >> limited
>>      >>      to
>>      >>      > land and housing, does not require continual or 
>> personal
>>      use to
>>      >>      exist
>>      >>      > as
>>      >>      > justly owned property unless otherwise abandoned;
>>      >>      >
>>      >>      > WHEREAS, these have been part of the principles of the
>>      >> Libertarian
>>      >>      > Party
>>      >>      > since its inception;
>>      >>      >
>>      >>      > THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that socialist and communist
>>      >> property
>>      >>      > ownership schemes, including the collectivization of
>>      property,
>>      >>      unlawful
>>      >>      > usurpation of property, and incorrect characterizations 
>> of
>>      >> private
>>      >>      > property, unless otherwise voluntarily agreed by all
>>      parties,
>>      >> are
>>      >>      > incompatible with the philosophy of the Libertarian 
>> Party.
>>      >>      >
>>      >>      >
>>      >>      > In Liberty,
>>      >>      >
>>      >>      > Steven Nekhaila
>>      >>      > Region 2 Representative
>>      >>      > Libertarian National Committee
>>      >>      >
>>      >>      > Impotentes defendere libertatum non possunt
>>      >>      > "Those without power cannot defend freedom"
>>      >>      >
>>      >>      > References
>>      >>      >
>>      >>      >    1. tel:217-412-5973
>>      >>
>>      >>      --
>>      >>
>>      >>    --
>>      >>    In Liberty,
>>      >>    Caryn Ann Harlos
>>      >>    Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee 
>> Secretary
>>      >>    - [2]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>>      >>    Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
>>      >>
>>      >>    A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>      >>    We defend your rights
>>      >>    And oppose the use of force
>>      >>    Taxation is theft
>>      >>
>>      >> References
>>      >>
>>      >>    1. mailto:[4]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>      >>    2. mailto:[5]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>> 
>>      --
>> 
>>    --
>>    In Liberty,
>>    Caryn Ann Harlos
>>    Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
>>    - [6]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>>    Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
>> 
>>    A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>    We defend your rights
>>    And oppose the use of force
>>    Taxation is theft
>> 
>> References
>> 
>>    1. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>    2. http://www.odonnell2018.org/
>>    3. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>    4. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>    5. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>    6. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org



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