[Lnc-business] Discussion: feedback and moving forward.

Elizabeth Van Horn elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
Fri Aug 17 04:39:00 EDT 2018


It's absolutely an accurate assessment of what I saw in that group.   

I just wonder if the comments in there will be scrubbed before it
becomes an open group.  

---
Elizabeth Van Horn

On 2018-08-17 04:14, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:

> Elizabeth, that is not a fair assessment.  I prefer talking about options here on the email list but then we get treated to sarcastic comments about numbers of emails.  Thus, I invited people to screenshot the discussions, figure out a way to have them openly viewable, or use another method such as a google drive.  There is nothing I said there that I want to be hidden.  I think an "open group" with limited posting abilities might accomplish that - Alex you might want to look into that.  I am not at all keen on "secret" discussions. 
> 
> And it is not a bash anyone group unless the posts that say - John Phillips has been making are a bash LNC members posts.  No one - not Nick - not me - not anyone is excluded from criticism.  People were stating their opinions and none of them were things that have not been said openly.  My sole comment on that was that I am disappointed in Nick on this issue.  That is no secret - I told him that openly.   I also did not see any LP members being bashed - I did see views being opposed. 
> 
> That being said, no one should have added you without your consent.  I was "invited" and not added.  I almost didn't accept the invitation but then decided if Alex wanted to start a good faith discussion, I would like to be involved. 
> 
> I encourage Alex to find a way to make this viewable. 
> 
> Have we ever considered a bbphp or vbulletin forum for workshopping? 
> 
> -Caryn Ann 
> 
> On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 11:54 PM, Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business <lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> Alex, I was added to this "workshopping" group without being consulted, and this was after I had specifically written to you to say that I wasn't interested in working on resolutions.
> 
> But, since I was added to that group, I looked around before leaving it, and am I'm disappointed to see that the group isn't just a working group for resolutions. But, is also a bad-mouthing LP members and Nick Sarwark group.
> 
> Also, John Phillips, a closed group doesn't mean people outside the group can read what's written there. For that to happen it needs to be an "open group".
> 
> It's very disappointing to see that our LNC members, some of which supposedly champion transparency, don't want LP members to see what's being written in an LNC group where resolutions are being written, and LP members being discussed.  So,  there's a "secret" group to keep on with the antics.  I won't be party to it.
> 
> ---
> Elizabeth Van Horn 
> 
> On 2018-08-16 12:51, Alex Merced (LNC Vice Chair) via Lnc-business wrote:
> I've created this FB group only for us for workshopping, please join if
> you'd like help on this and other motions in this manner.
> 
> [1]https://m.facebook.com/groups/306874133221625 [1]
> Alex Merced
> Vice Chair of the Libertarian National Committee/LP
> On Aug 16, 2018, at 12:30 PM, Richard Longstreth via Lnc-business
> <[2]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> 
> Let's do it
> On Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 00:49 Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business
> <[1][3]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> I am amenable to refining the current one to address issues such
> as
> brought up by Craig Bowden.
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 11:10 PM Alex Merced (LNC Vice Chair)
> via
> Lnc-business <[1][2][4]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> Dear LNC,
> As the vote for the motion on the table continues there is
> passionate voices on all sides. While this particular motion
> may
> fail the passions of those on both sides will not. I want to
> align
> focus on our candidates in these last few months of the
> election as
> much as possible but I do think from the response, that
> getting
> some
> statement passed will be necessary to put this behind us.
> What I invite is a discussion on the different wordings that
> have
> been seen so far. What can be done to make a statement we can
> proclaim as a unifying affirmation of principles. I think
> everyone
> in the body takes a moment to participate in this discussion
> we
> can
> develop something that we can be proud of that will move this
> moment
> forward.
> I know many of you have a lot on your plate, I know many of
> you
> are
> frustrated. Let's take moment see how we can
> I think a good start is with Elizabeths Revision to the Kibler
> wording if she can post that  in a response. Please bear with
> me on
> this I'm confident we can find a way to satisfy the interest
> of
> all
> those involved with something they can point to and be proud
> of
> and
> campaign on and then put our 100% focus on the ground work of
> getting our candidates elected.
> Alex Merced
> Vice Chair of the Libertarian National Committee/LP
> --
> --
> In Liberty,
> Caryn Ann Harlos
> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
> - [2]Caryn.Ann. [5]Harlos at LP.org or [6]Secretary at LP.org.
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - [7]LPedia at LP.org
> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> We defend your rights
> And oppose the use of force
> Taxation is theft
> References
> 1. mailto:[3][8]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 2. mailto:[4][9]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> --
> Richard Longstreth
> Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, KS, MT, NM, OR, HI, UT, WA, WY)
> Libertarian National Committee
> [5][10]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 931.538.9300
> References
> 1. [11]mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 2. [12]mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 3. [13]mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 4. [14]mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> 5. [15]mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 
> References
> 
> 1. https://m.facebook.com/groups/306874133221625 [1]
> 2. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 3. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 4. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 5. mailto:Harlos at LP.org
> 6. mailto:Secretary at LP.org
> 7. mailto:LPedia at LP.org
> 8. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 9. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> 10. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 11. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 12. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 13. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 14. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> 15. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org

  -- 

-- 

IN LIBERTY, 
CARYN ANN HARLOS 
Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary -
Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org. 
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org 

A haiku to the Statement of Principles: 
_We defend your rights_ 
_And oppose the use of force_ 
_Taxation is theft_ 

Links:
------
[1] https://m.facebook.com/groups/306874133221625
-------------- next part --------------
   It's absolutely an accurate assessment of what I saw in that group.
   I just wonder if the comments in there will be scrubbed before it
   becomes an open group.

   ---
   Elizabeth Van Horn

   On 2018-08-17 04:14, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:

   Elizabeth, that is not a fair assessment.  I prefer talking about
   options here on the email list but then we get treated to sarcastic
   comments about numbers of emails.  Thus, I invited people to screenshot
   the discussions, figure out a way to have them openly viewable, or use
   another method such as a google drive.  There is nothing I said there
   that I want to be hidden.  I think an "open group" with limited posting
   abilities might accomplish that - Alex you might want to look into
   that.  I am not at all keen on "secret" discussions.

   And it is not a bash anyone group unless the posts that say - John
   Phillips has been making are a bash LNC members posts.  No one - not
   Nick - not me - not anyone is excluded from criticism.  People were
   stating their opinions and none of them were things that have not been
   said openly.  My sole comment on that was that I am disappointed in
   Nick on this issue.  That is no secret - I told him that openly.   I
   also did not see any LP members being bashed - I did see views being
   opposed.

   That being said, no one should have added you without your consent.  I
   was "invited" and not added.  I almost didn't accept the invitation but
   then decided if Alex wanted to start a good faith discussion, I would
   like to be involved.

   I encourage Alex to find a way to make this viewable.

   Have we ever considered a bbphp or vbulletin forum for workshopping?

   -Caryn Ann

   On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 11:54 PM, Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business
   <[1]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:

     Alex, I was added to this "workshopping" group without being
     consulted, and this was after I had specifically written to you to
     say that I wasn't interested in working on resolutions.
     But, since I was added to that group, I looked around before leaving
     it, and am I'm disappointed to see that the group isn't just a
     working group for resolutions. But, is also a bad-mouthing LP
     members and Nick Sarwark group.
     Also, John Phillips, a closed group doesn't mean people outside the
     group can read what's written there. For that to happen it needs to
     be an "open group".
     It's very disappointing to see that our LNC members, some of which
     supposedly champion transparency, don't want LP members to see
     what's being written in an LNC group where resolutions are being
     written, and LP members being discussed.  So,  there's a "secret"
     group to keep on with the antics.  I won't be party to it.
     ---
     Elizabeth Van Horn

   On 2018-08-16 12:51, Alex Merced (LNC Vice Chair) via Lnc-business
   wrote:

     I've created this FB group only for us for workshopping, please join
     if
        you'd like help on this and other motions in this manner.
        [1][2]https://m.facebook.com/groups/306874133221625
        Alex Merced
        Vice Chair of the Libertarian National Committee/LP
        On Aug 16, 2018, at 12:30 PM, Richard Longstreth via Lnc-business
        <[2][3]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
          Let's do it
          On Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 00:49 Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business
          <[1][3][4]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
               I am amenable to refining the current one to address
     issues such
            as
               brought up by Craig Bowden.
               On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 11:10 PM Alex Merced (LNC Vice
     Chair)
        via
               Lnc-business <[1][2][4][5]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
                 Dear LNC,
                 As the vote for the motion on the table continues there
     is
                 passionate voices on all sides. While this particular
     motion
            may
                 fail the passions of those on both sides will not. I
     want to
            align
                 focus on our candidates in these last few months of the
            election as
                 much as possible but I do think from the response, that
        getting
            some
                 statement passed will be necessary to put this behind
     us.
                 What I invite is a discussion on the different wordings
     that
            have
                 been seen so far. What can be done to make a statement
     we can
                 proclaim as a unifying affirmation of principles. I
     think
            everyone
                 in the body takes a moment to participate in this
     discussion
        we
            can
                 develop something that we can be proud of that will move
     this
            moment
                 forward.
                 I know many of you have a lot on your plate, I know many
     of
        you
            are
                 frustrated. Let's take moment see how we can
                 I think a good start is with Elizabeths Revision to the
     Kibler
                 wording if she can post that  in a response. Please bear
     with
            me on
                 this I'm confident we can find a way to satisfy the
     interest
        of
            all
                 those involved with something they can point to and be
     proud
        of
            and
                 campaign on and then put our 100% focus on the ground
     work of
                 getting our candidates elected.
                 Alex Merced
                 Vice Chair of the Libertarian National Committee/LP
               --
               --
               In Liberty,
               Caryn Ann Harlos
               Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
     Secretary
               - [2]Caryn.Ann. [5]Harlos at LP.org or [6]Secretary at LP.org.
               Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -
     [7]LPedia at LP.org
               A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
               We defend your rights
               And oppose the use of force
               Taxation is theft
            References
               1. mailto:[3][8][6]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
               2. mailto:[4][9]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
          --
          Richard Longstreth
          Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, KS, MT, NM, OR, HI, UT,
     WA, WY)
          Libertarian National Committee
          [5][10][7]richard.longstreth at lp.org
          931.538.9300
        References
          1. [11]mailto:[8]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
          2. [12]mailto:[9]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
          3. [13]mailto:[10]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
          4. [14]mailto:[11]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
          5. [15]mailto:[12]richard.longstreth at lp.org
     References
        1. [13]https://m.facebook.com/groups/306874133221625
        2. mailto:[14]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
        3. mailto:[15]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
        4. mailto:[16]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
        5. mailto:[17]Harlos at LP.org
        6. mailto:[18]Secretary at LP.org
        7. mailto:[19]LPedia at LP.org
        8. mailto:[20]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
        9. mailto:[21]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
       10. mailto:[22]richard.longstreth at lp.org
       11. mailto:[23]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
       12. mailto:[24]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
       13. mailto:[25]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
       14. mailto:[26]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
       15. mailto:[27]richard.longstreth at lp.org


   --
   --
   In Liberty,
   Caryn Ann Harlos
   Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
   - [28]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
   Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org

   A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
   We defend your rights
   And oppose the use of force
   Taxation is theft

References

   1. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
   2. https://m.facebook.com/groups/306874133221625
   3. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
   4. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
   5. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
   6. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
   7. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
   8. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
   9. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  10. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  11. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
  12. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
  13. https://m.facebook.com/groups/306874133221625
  14. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  15. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  16. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  17. mailto:Harlos at LP.org
  18. mailto:Secretary at LP.org
  19. mailto:LPedia at LP.org
  20. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  21. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
  22. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
  23. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  24. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  25. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  26. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
  27. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
  28. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org


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