[Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2018-05: Suspension of Arvin Vohra
Caryn Ann Harlos
caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
Tue Apr 3 12:13:00 EDT 2018
Arvin, I am going to interact hopefully just this one time with you. For
someone who has “apologized” you do an awful lot of blaming the people you
are apologizing to which is not in fact an apology. And just like every
other single time you have went off the rails, after a week or so you hone
what you want to say and act like it was what you originally said. It is
not. I see what you did here. And so do many others.
There is no juxtaposition of the murder of the school children to the
murder of school boards that makes it a joke, particularly considering your
other rhetoric of enemy collaborators. In earlier posts you DEFENDED
violence against these “enemy collaborators” as moral (no, its not -
positing future subjunctives about what if you don’t obey, and don’t obey
and don’t obey and then the armed men come to get you is not a moral
justification for violence at the “enemy collaborator” level - remember you
even referred to the parents of public school children the same way) but
don’t advise it because it wouldn’t work though it is moral. Now you claim
its un-proportional (and thus not moral) - which you did not before.
Oopsie doesn't cut it.
You have zero judgment and discretion when talking (and joking) about
murder. About real life trauma of children. This is precisely the same
lack of judgement you have shown over and over and over.
You are not a victim. You have proven yourself to be an unfit
communicator in the role of leadership of the nation’s third largest
political party. And you enjoy and mock the upset with your martyr complex
about being the saviour of the party.
Full stop. The LP is not 4chan. You seem to think your responsibility ends
if you are posting in an "edgier" environment - I shudder to think what you
would post if you were on 4Chan). And with each of your stunts you prove
once more you are gas-lighting people and then pull the “who me??” faux
innocent angle. I bought it the first and second times. Now we are on the
fourth, and you think we are all still suckers. Or did you forget that you
promised that you would get worse? In quite a gloating manner.
Pepperidge Farm and the North Remembers.
No other organization would tolerate this. The “but it was just a joke”
schtick doesn’t fly. First of all, I don’t buy it particularly after you
went on to argue for its morality in a different post. But secondly, the
fact that you can get all wide-eyed wondering how people took it seriously
should give you a clue that it isn’t because people are stupid. It is
because that is the personae you have been proudly cultivating.
The history of the Pledge was to make it clear that we are NOT violent
agitators against the state. That pledge was put in place for the SAFETY
of all of our members. The fact that you think you have the right to
simply endanger that and shrug “muh joke” (in much the same way you
defended Trump’s “grab them by the p**sy” comments as mere ‘locker room
talk’ despite the National Party Chair clearly condemning it as bragging
about the ability to sexually insult women with impunity) shows your
complete unfitness to be a leader that has such a pledge at its core. It
is equivalent to a leader of the ADL making an anti-semitic “joke” about
Jewish puppet-masters that secretly control the world or the NAACP CEO doing
a blackface routine. I remember back in South Florida when several
tourists were murdered. A band formed that was named Dead German Tourist
(an obvious black humour joke). Okay some people may not like that but
they are a band. If a representative of the South Florida Tourism Board
was a member, well that is a horse of a different colour.
The majority of your LNC peers asked you to resign. Multiple state parties
have done so, and this weekend the OK party at convention passed such a
resolution without a single objection. Nearly every single potential
delegate made it a point to say they would not vote for you (a situation I
have seen at other conventions). I know you think you are a hero, but the
people you think you are here to save are telling you that they don't want
such "heroic help." Do some individual members? Of course. But the fact
that not one state party (not even your home affiliate) has issued any
resolution supporting you should tell you that have failed in this
leadership role. That perception might be completely wrong and unfair, but
it is what it is. And we have a removal clause for specifically those
sorts of situation.
You have done all this to yourself. You are not the aggrieved party. And
if you think the state would not hesitate to use your murderous "joke"
against Party members they might want to get something on, you are
delusional. With leaders like you we don't need enemies.
There are those who note (correctly I think) that this is being used by
*some* as part of an anti-radical, anti-anarchist purge. While they may be
correct on that for some (certainly not for this radical anarchist) they
are blaming the wrong person since you are basically inviting it and proud
of doing so. You are giving those who would like to fundamentally change
the radical freedom message of this Party exactly what they want, which is
ironic, since you fancy yourself the great purifier.
I am sure you are familiar with the internet troll culture of NAWALT ("not
all women are like that" used frequently in blatantly misogynistic circles
- and usually mocked by the most virulent misogynists who think that all
women really are terrible lesser humans) - well I am here to say NARAALT -
not all radical anarchists are like that. Those who wish to purge us will
not care - but the vast majority of Libertarians who are here working with
each other of different views in good faith will care. And this is why I
vocally care so much - we often tell many groups, if you want to be taken
seriously clean up your own house first. As a fellow radical anarchist,
this is my house, and my job to call out your destructive behaviour. You
are shitting in my nest. And I am telling you to shovel it out.
To those reading who continue to doubt that "no one that matters really
cares" - you couldn't be more wrong. I can't name very generous donors who
may no longer give (at many levels, county, state, national, and to
candidates) so you can choose to disbelieve me - but those of you who are
looking at the situation rationally will hear the truth in what I am saying.
For every member who says they are staying because of you, there are ten
who leave. For every large donor that stops there are none to fill that
need that step up that I am aware of.
It's not all about you. A good leader knows that.
-Caryn Ann
On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 8:33 AM, Arvin Vohra <votevohra at gmail.com> wrote:
> Since some were unable to see my video response to this, here is
> something else I posted on mewe on this issue:
> As you may have heard, some on the LNC are once again working to
> suspend me from the LNC, based on an inappropriate joke I made on
> [1]mewe.com. The joke was in poor taste, and I have already apologized
> for it, and clarified my actual position (specifically, that I don't
> advocate for shooting school boards. I would have considered that
> obvious, but sometimes tone gets lost in social media).
> But it is, I have to say, interesting to see the cognitive dissonance
> that is growing within the Libertarian Party. Every day, I hear
> taxation is theft. We even have new LP t-shirts that say taxation is
> theft (they are a great way to support the LP and spread the message).
> We agree that taxation is an immoral violation of your sacred rights.
> We also have routinely argued that guns are not for hunting, they are
> for opposing government overreach. I've spoken officially on this
> issue. I've said this to cheering Libertarian and Conservative groups,
> to furious progressive groups. I know many of you have made the same
> argument.
> We talk about how wrong it is for the government to rob us and use the
> money for immoral actions like the drug war, foreign wars, and
> government schools. A few minutes later, we talk about how guns are
> necessary to block government tyranny and overreach.
> I've routinely argued against any violence against the state, since I
> consider it unlikely to work. But for all the hardcore gun supporters
> who wear taxation is theft t-shirts: what is the level of tyranny that
> would be great enough to morally justify using violence in self
> defense?
> Is being locked up in a government rape cage for a victimless crime not
> enough moral justification? Is having your son or daughter locked up in
> such a rape cage not enough justification? Is being robbed to have your
> money used to bomb people in other countries, in your name not enough?
> What level of tyranny would morally justify using the Second Amendmend
> for what it was designed for?
> Just to be clear: I am not, have not ever, and have no plans to ever
> advocate violence against the state. I consider it unnecessary. I
> believe that Dr. King and Gandhi have showed that violence is not
> needed to fight the state. I consider it unlikely to work. As long as
> the state keeps duping young men and women to join its enforcement arm,
> I can't imagine any violent revolution lasting more than a few minutes.
> As someone who trained for many years in the martial arts, I also
> consider it against my personal principles to use a greater response
> than what is needed. I believe in the doctrine of minimal force, which
> is why I work within the LP, not within a citizen militia.
> But is using a gun to defend yourself against state violence immoral?
> God no. And violence certainly includes any violation done under threat
> of violence.
> Respectfully,
> Arvin Vohra
> Vice Chair
> Libertarian Party
>
> On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 10:17 AM, Jeff Hewitt <[2]jeffrey.hewitt at lp.org>
> wrote:
>
> I vote Yes. Jeff Hewitt Region 4 Representative
>
> On 2018-04-03 05:07, Sam Goldstein wrote:
>
> Yes
> ---
> Sam Goldstein
> Libertarian National Committee
> [3]317-850-0726 Cell
> On 2018-04-03 02:16, Alicia Mattson wrote:
>
> We have an electronic mail ballot.
> Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by April 12, 2018 at
> 11:59:59pm
> Pacific time.
> Co-Sponsors: Harlos, Van Horn, Katz, Hayes, Goldstein, Redpath,
> Hewitt, O'Donnell
> Motion:
> WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party holds the non-initiation of force
> as its
> cardinal principle and requires each of its members certify that
> they
> neither advocate or believe in violent means to achieve political
> or
> social goals.
> RESOLVED, that the Libertarian National Committee suspends Arvin
> Vohra
> from his position of Vice-Chair for sustained and repeated
> unacceptable
> conduct that brings the principles of the Libertarian Party into
> disrepute, including making and defending a statement advocating
> lethal
> violence against state employees who are not directly threatening
> imminent physical harm. Such action is in violation of our
> membership
> pledge. These actions further endanger the survival of our
> movement and
> the security of all of our members without their consent.
> -Alicia
>
> --
> Arvin Vohra
> [4]www.VoteVohra.com
> [5]VoteVohra at gmail.com
> (301) 320-3634
>
> References
>
> 1. http://mewe.com/
> 2. mailto:jeffrey.hewitt at lp.org
> 3. tel:317-850-0726
> 4. http://www.VoteVohra.com/
> 5. mailto:VoteVohra at gmail.com
>
--
--
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
*We defend your rights*
*And oppose the use of force*
*Taxation is theft*
-------------- next part --------------
Arvin, I am going to interact hopefully just this one time with you.
For someone who has “apologized” you do an awful lot of blaming the
people you are apologizing to which is not in fact an apology. And
just like every other single time you have went off the rails, after a
week or so you hone what you want to say and act like it was what you
originally said. It is not. I see what you did here. And so do many
others.
There is no juxtaposition of the murder of the school children to the
murder of school boards that makes it a joke, particularly considering
your other rhetoric of enemy collaborators. In earlier posts you
DEFENDED violence against these “enemy collaborators” as moral (no, its
not - positing future subjunctives about what if you don’t obey, and
don’t obey and don’t obey and then the armed men come to get you is not
a moral justification for violence at the “enemy collaborator” level -
remember you even referred to the parents of public school children the
same way) but don’t advise it because it wouldn’t work though it is
moral. Now you claim its un-proportional (and thus not moral) - which
you did not before. Oopsie doesn't cut it.
You have zero judgment and discretion when talking (and joking) about
murder. About real life trauma of children. This is precisely the
same lack of judgement you have shown over and over and over.
You are not a victim. You have proven yourself to be an unfit
communicator in the role of leadership of the nation’s third largest
political party. And you enjoy and mock the upset with your martyr
complex about being the saviour of the party.
Full stop. The LP is not 4chan. You seem to think your responsibility
ends if you are posting in an "edgier" environment - I shudder to think
what you would post if you were on 4Chan). And with each of your
stunts you prove once more you are gas-lighting people and then pull
the “who me??” faux innocent angle. I bought it the first and second
times. Now we are on the fourth, and you think we are all still
suckers. Or did you forget that you promised that you would get
worse? In quite a gloating manner. Pepperidge Farm and the North
Remembers.
No other organization would tolerate this. The “but it was just a
joke” schtick doesn’t fly. First of all, I don’t buy it particularly
after you went on to argue for its morality in a different post. But
secondly, the fact that you can get all wide-eyed wondering how people
took it seriously should give you a clue that it isn’t because people
are stupid. It is because that is the personae you have been proudly
cultivating.
The history of the Pledge was to make it clear that we are NOT violent
agitators against the state. That pledge was put in place for the
SAFETY of all of our members. The fact that you think you have the
right to simply endanger that and shrug “muh joke” (in much the same
way you defended Trump’s “grab them by the p**sy” comments as mere
‘locker room talk’ despite the National Party Chair clearly condemning
it as bragging about the ability to sexually insult women with
impunity) shows your complete unfitness to be a leader that has such a
pledge at its core. It is equivalent to a leader of the ADL making an
anti-semitic “joke” about Jewish puppet-masters that secretly control
the world or the NAACP CEO doing a blackface routine. I remember back
in South Florida when several tourists were murdered. A band formed
that was named Dead German Tourist (an obvious black humour joke).
Okay some people may not like that but they are a band. If a
representative of the South Florida Tourism Board was a member, well
that is a horse of a different colour.
The majority of your LNC peers asked you to resign. Multiple state
parties have done so, and this weekend the OK party at convention
passed such a resolution without a single objection. Nearly every
single potential delegate made it a point to say they would not vote
for you (a situation I have seen at other conventions). I know you
think you are a hero, but the people you think you are here to save are
telling you that they don't want such "heroic help." Do some
individual members? Of course. But the fact that not one state party
(not even your home affiliate) has issued any resolution supporting you
should tell you that have failed in this leadership role. That
perception might be completely wrong and unfair, but it is what it is.
And we have a removal clause for specifically those sorts of situation.
You have done all this to yourself. You are not the aggrieved party.
And if you think the state would not hesitate to use your murderous
"joke" against Party members they might want to get something on, you
are delusional. With leaders like you we don't need enemies.
There are those who note (correctly I think) that this is being used by
*some* as part of an anti-radical, anti-anarchist purge. While they
may be correct on that for some (certainly not for this radical
anarchist) they are blaming the wrong person since you are basically
inviting it and proud of doing so. You are giving those who would like
to fundamentally change the radical freedom message of this Party
exactly what they want, which is ironic, since you fancy yourself the
great purifier.
I am sure you are familiar with the internet troll culture of NAWALT
("not all women are like that" used frequently in blatantly
misogynistic circles - and usually mocked by the most virulent
misogynists who think that all women really are terrible lesser humans)
- well I am here to say NARAALT - not all radical anarchists are like
that. Those who wish to purge us will not care - but the vast majority
of Libertarians who are here working with each other of different views
in good faith will care. And this is why I vocally care so much - we
often tell many groups, if you want to be taken seriously clean up your
own house first. As a fellow radical anarchist, this is my house, and
my job to call out your destructive behaviour. You are shitting in my
nest. And I am telling you to shovel it out.
To those reading who continue to doubt that "no one that matters really
cares" - you couldn't be more wrong. I can't name very generous donors
who may no longer give (at many levels, county, state, national, and to
candidates) so you can choose to disbelieve me - but those of you who
are looking at the situation rationally will hear the truth in what I
am saying.
For every member who says they are staying because of you, there are
ten who leave. For every large donor that stops there are none to fill
that need that step up that I am aware of.
It's not all about you. A good leader knows that.
-Caryn Ann
On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 8:33 AM, Arvin Vohra <[1]votevohra at gmail.com>
wrote:
Since some were unable to see my video response to this, here is
something else I posted on mewe on this issue:
As you may have heard, some on the LNC are once again working to
suspend me from the LNC, based on an inappropriate joke I made on
[1][2]mewe.com. The joke was in poor taste, and I have already
apologized
for it, and clarified my actual position (specifically, that I
don't
advocate for shooting school boards. I would have considered that
obvious, but sometimes tone gets lost in social media).
But it is, I have to say, interesting to see the cognitive
dissonance
that is growing within the Libertarian Party. Every day, I hear
taxation is theft. We even have new LP t-shirts that say taxation
is
theft (they are a great way to support the LP and spread the
message).
We agree that taxation is an immoral violation of your sacred
rights.
We also have routinely argued that guns are not for hunting, they
are
for opposing government overreach. I've spoken officially on this
issue. I've said this to cheering Libertarian and Conservative
groups,
to furious progressive groups. I know many of you have made the
same
argument.
We talk about how wrong it is for the government to rob us and
use the
money for immoral actions like the drug war, foreign wars, and
government schools. A few minutes later, we talk about how guns
are
necessary to block government tyranny and overreach.
I've routinely argued against any violence against the state,
since I
consider it unlikely to work. But for all the hardcore gun
supporters
who wear taxation is theft t-shirts: what is the level of tyranny
that
would be great enough to morally justify using violence in self
defense?
Is being locked up in a government rape cage for a victimless
crime not
enough moral justification? Is having your son or daughter locked
up in
such a rape cage not enough justification? Is being robbed to
have your
money used to bomb people in other countries, in your name not
enough?
What level of tyranny would morally justify using the Second
Amendmend
for what it was designed for?
Just to be clear: I am not, have not ever, and have no plans to
ever
advocate violence against the state. I consider it unnecessary. I
believe that Dr. King and Gandhi have showed that violence is not
needed to fight the state. I consider it unlikely to work. As
long as
the state keeps duping young men and women to join its
enforcement arm,
I can't imagine any violent revolution lasting more than a few
minutes.
As someone who trained for many years in the martial arts, I also
consider it against my personal principles to use a greater
response
than what is needed. I believe in the doctrine of minimal force,
which
is why I work within the LP, not within a citizen militia.
But is using a gun to defend yourself against state violence
immoral?
God no. And violence certainly includes any violation done under
threat
of violence.
Respectfully,
Arvin Vohra
Vice Chair
Libertarian Party
On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 10:17 AM, Jeff Hewitt
<[2][3]jeffrey.hewitt at lp.org>
wrote:
I vote Yes. Jeff Hewitt Region 4 Representative
On 2018-04-03 05:07, Sam Goldstein wrote:
Yes
---
Sam Goldstein
Libertarian National Committee
[3]317-850-0726 Cell
On 2018-04-03 02:16, Alicia Mattson wrote:
We have an electronic mail ballot.
Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by April 12, 2018 at
11:59:59pm
Pacific time.
Co-Sponsors: Harlos, Van Horn, Katz, Hayes, Goldstein,
Redpath,
Hewitt, O'Donnell
Motion:
WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party holds the non-initiation of
force
as its
cardinal principle and requires each of its members certify
that
they
neither advocate or believe in violent means to achieve
political
or
social goals.
RESOLVED, that the Libertarian National Committee suspends
Arvin
Vohra
from his position of Vice-Chair for sustained and repeated
unacceptable
conduct that brings the principles of the Libertarian Party
into
disrepute, including making and defending a statement
advocating
lethal
violence against state employees who are not directly
threatening
imminent physical harm. Such action is in violation of our
membership
pledge. These actions further endanger the survival of our
movement and
the security of all of our members without their consent.
-Alicia
--
Arvin Vohra
[4][4]www.VoteVohra.com
[5][5]VoteVohra at gmail.com
[6](301) 320-3634
References
1. [7]http://mewe.com/
2. mailto:[8]jeffrey.hewitt at lp.org
3. tel:[9]317-850-0726
4. [10]http://www.VoteVohra.com/
5. mailto:[11]VoteVohra at gmail.com
--
--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
- [12]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
Communications Director, [13]Libertarian Party of Colorado
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
We defend your rights
And oppose the use of force
Taxation is theft
References
1. mailto:votevohra at gmail.com
2. http://mewe.com/
3. mailto:jeffrey.hewitt at lp.org
4. http://www.VoteVohra.com/
5. mailto:VoteVohra at gmail.com
6. tel:(301) 320-3634
7. http://mewe.com/
8. mailto:jeffrey.hewitt at lp.org
9. tel:317-850-0726
10. http://www.VoteVohra.com/
11. mailto:VoteVohra at gmail.com
12. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
13. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
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