[Lnc-business] State Constitutional Amendment on Proportional Representation or Approval Voting

Starchild starchild at lp.org
Tue Apr 10 01:22:39 EDT 2018


Thomas,

	Thank you for your input – while still more granular and less succinct than would be preferable in my view, this is more readable than some of the materials you've sent in the past. 
	
	Trying to change the U.S. Constitution, or even state constitutions, is a high hurdle however. As previously noted, I do think electoral reforms like proportional representation (PR) are worthy of Libertarian support – I'm less enamored of approval voting – but given the immensity of the project, better pursued in conjunction with other alternative parties than as something we put a lot of resources into on our own. 

	I base that conclusion partly on the fact that electoral reform is kind of a secondary freedom issue, in the sense that it is intended not to directly increase personal or economic freedom, or reduce State aggression, but rather to change the rules in the hope that a better set of electoral rules would produce better outcomes for freedom.

	Another consideration is that the countries currently using PR (Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Greece, Hungary, Israel, Italy, Luxembourg, Norway, Russia, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland – see https://www.britannica.com/topic/proportional-representation ) haven't become markedly libertarian. It is of course possible that they enjoy more freedom than they would have if they had not adopted PR, but this is not immediately obvious.

	I do continue to think PR is a fairer and better system than winner-take-all, and it could potentially do much good in the United States by breaking up the long-dominant 2-party cartel. But your long-time obsessive advocacy of this single issue makes me suspect that you may be seeing it as a kind of libertarian "silver bullet", and looking at the overall picture less than realistically. 

	You suggest we start by attempting to change the state constitution in Nevada or Nebraska. How much do you think this would cost, and from where would you obtain the resources to accomplish it? I suspect it would cost millions of dollars just to get the hundreds of thousands of signatures needed to put such a measure on the ballot, aside from any moneys spent on an actual campaign to pass it, and our entire national LP budget is under $2 million a year. Have you lobbied the leadership of other alternative political parties or groups that might be interested in funding and participating in such a project? 

	My best guess is that at present, ballot access efforts get the LP significantly more "bang for the buck" in terms of advancing freedom. However if there were a major coalition seeking to enact PR and we weren't carrying the bulk of the burden ourselves, the picture could look significantly different. Building a working coalition of alternative parties in this country strikes me as a potentially important and game-changing project, and electoral reform might be just about the only practical agenda behind which such an ideologically diverse coalition could unite without getting bogged down in squabbling over the details.

Love & Liberty,

                                     ((( starchild )))
At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
                         RealReform at earthlink.net
                                  (415) 625-FREE
                                    @StarchildSF


On Apr 9, 2018, at 12:37 PM, Thomas Jones wrote:

> 18 States have voter petitions for State Const Amdts
> 2016 Prez Votes - Low to High
> 
> 1          ND      344,360
> 2          SD       370,093
> 3          MT      497,147
> 4          NE       844,227
> 5          NV      1,125,385
> 6          AR       1,130,635
> 7          MS      1,209,357
> 8          OK      1,452,992
> 9          OR      2,001,336
> 10        AZ       2,573,165
> 11        CO      2,780,247
> 12        MO     2,808,605
> 13        MA      3,325,046
> 14        MI       4,799,284
> 15        OH      5,496,487
> 16        IL        5,536,424
> 17        FL       9,420,039
> 18        CA       14,181,604
> 
> http://www.iandrinstitute.org/states.cfm
> 
> Suggest NV or NE for starters.
> All sorts of defective/fatal *reforms* being done by the statist leftwing usual suspects.
> 
> *******
> SAVE DEMOCRACY ELECTION REFORMS 9 APR 2018
>  
> 1. ONE election day. NO primaries, caucuses and conventions.
> 2. Proportional Representation (P.R) in all legislative body elections.
> BOTH majority rule and minority representation = DEMOCRACY.
> 3. NONPARTISAN nominations and elections of all elected executive officers and all judicial officers.
>  
> [OPTION ITEMS IN BRACKETS]
>  
> [The added or amended sections below shall apply to all elections, except if existing language applies.]
> --------------
> Sec. 1. (1) Elections shall only be held on [date] of each year [(except for recall elections].
> (2) All elections shall only use mail paper secret ballots.
> (3) The [state] shall pay the cost for the mail paper secret ballots to and from the Electors.
> (4) All election laws shall be general and shall exist by [210] days before the election day along with all election districts.
> (5) All elected officers shall be registered Electors [in the [state]] in addition to any other qualifications in this constitution.
> (6) All incumbents and all other candidates shall respectively file a declaration of candidacy and any filing fees in (7) by [5 P.M.][203] and [196] days before the election day.
> (7) The names of all candidates shall be put on the election ballots only by (a) nominating petition forms signed by Electors in the area involved equal to not more than [0.2] percent of the number of Electors who voted in the last regular election for [governor] in such area which shall be filed and verified respectively by [105] and [70] days before the election day, or (b) filing fees (signature number multiplied by a uniform money amount).
> (8) Elector form- [9, 10 or 12] point type, [3.5 by 4.25 inches]
> NOMINATING PETITION - [PARTISAN (for legislative offices)] [NONPARTISAN (for executive/judicial offices)]
> I nominate (candidate’s name and address) (of the (one word party name - not more than [16] capital letters) Party) for (office) in (election area) at the (date) election.
> Elector signature, printed name, address and date signed.
> Return to- (address)
> (9) No filing shall be withdrawn.
> (10) Candidates shall have their party's name in (8) or NONPARTISAN [and may by law have a [0.4 inch by 0.4 inch] symbol] next to their names on the ballots.
>  
> Sec. 2. (1) The Electors shall elect all members of each legislative body for [1] year terms who may meet any time in person, by written proxy or electronically.
> (2) Each legislative body shall have an odd number of members (at least [5]) who are elected in at least 2 districts.
> (3) As nearly as possible, each legislative body election district shall have 2 (rural) to 5 (urban) times the number of Electors who voted at the last regular election [for governor] divided by the total members in the body, be 1 or more [local governments] or a part of 1 [local government] and be contiguous and square.
> (4) A qualified person may be a candidate in any district.
>  
> Sec. 3. ((1) Each legislative body candidate shall receive a list of all other candidates with party names in all districts by [63] days before the election day.
> (2) Each candidate shall rank such all other candidates (using 1 (highest), 2, etc.) and file such list by [5 P.M. 56] days before the election day.
> (3) The lists shall be made public the next day.
> (4) If a valid list is not filed, then the candidate’s name shall be removed from the ballots.
>  
> Sec. 4. (1) Each Elector may vote for 1 candidate for each legislative body.
> (2) The Ratio shall be the Total Votes for all candidates in all districts divided by the Total Members, dropping any fraction.
> Ratio = TV/TM
> (3) A candidate who gets the Ratio shall be elected.
> (4) The largest surplus more than the Ratio shall be moved to 1 or more candidates in any district who do not have the Ratio and who are highest on the candidate's rank order list.
> (5) Only the votes needed to get the Ratio shall be moved to any 1 candidate.
> (6) Repeat steps (4) and (5) until all surplus votes are moved.
> (7) If all members are not elected, then the candidate with the least votes shall lose.
> (8) Such losing votes shall be moved to 1 or more remaining unelected candidates in any district who are highest on the candidate's rank order list subject to (5).
> The moving order shall be original votes and then the earliest surplus or other loser votes.
> (9) Steps (7) and (8) shall repeat until all members are elected.
> (10) Each member shall have 1 vote in the legislative body.
> (11) Example 100 Votes, Elect 5
> Ratio = 100/5 = 20
> ---
> Surplus Moved
> C1 25-20=5 Surplus
> C2 19+1=20
> C3 14+4=18
> ---
> Final
> C1 20=20 Elected
> C2 20=20 Elected
> C3 18+2=20 Elected
> C4 17+3=20 Elected
> C5 15+5=20 Elected
> Sum 90+10=100
> Losers 10 are moved to elected persons.
>  
> [NOTE - slightly more exact/complex methods are possible]
>  
> Sec. 5. (1) All legislative body candidates and members shall file 1 or more rank order lists of persons to replace (temporary or permanent) the candidate or member during an election time or term respectively.
> (2) The qualified person who is highest on the list shall fill such vacancy.
> (3) If the preceding does not happen, then the other members of his/her party (if any) or the legislative body shall fill such vacancy with a qualified person of the same party immediately at its next meeting.
>  
> [NO more vacancy special elections for legislators.]
>  
> Sec. 6. (1) The Electors shall elect all elected executive officers [(at least a chief executive, a clerk and a treasurer in each government)] for [1] year terms at nonpartisan elections.
> (2) The Electors shall elect all judicial officers for the [1 to 6 year] terms provided by this constitution and law at nonpartisan elections.
> (3) No law change shall reduce the term of any judicial officer.
> (4) Each Elector may vote for 1 or more candidates for each executive or judicial office (including 1 write-in vote for each position).
> (5) The candidate(s) getting the most votes shall be elected (for the longest terms respectively).
>  
> [(4)-(5) is the Approval Voting method.]
>  
> Sec. 7. (1) The terms of office involved shall start [at noon] [7] days after the election day.
> (2) All legislation enacted from [35] days before an election day until the (1) starting time shall be temporary and shall expire not later than [35] days after such term starting time.
> [Stop/reduce lame duck stuff]
>  
> [Sec. 8. (1) A general law shall provide for a recall election of any legislative body or elected executive [or judicial] officer upon petition of Electors equal to [25] percent of the number of Electors who voted at the last regular election [for governor] in the election area of the body or officer involved.
> (2) The reason(s) in any petition (in not more than [50] words) shall not be reviewed, except in a libel case against the recall sponsor.
> (3) A filed petition shall be verified within [35] days if (4) applies.
> (4) The recall election day shall happen [21 to 28] days thereafter during the term involved with the result on the same day.
> (5) Any person recalled shall not hold any public office for [2] years after the recall election day.]

-------------- next part --------------
   Thomas,

   Thank you for your input – while still more granular and less succinct
   than would be preferable in my view, this is more readable than some of
   the materials you've sent in the past.

   Trying to change the U.S. Constitution, or even state constitutions, is
   a high hurdle however. As previously noted, I do think electoral
   reforms like proportional representation (PR) are worthy of Libertarian
   support – I'm less enamored of approval voting – but given the
   immensity of the project, better pursued in conjunction with other
   alternative parties than as something we put a lot of resources into on
   our own.

   I base that conclusion partly on the fact that electoral reform is kind
   of a secondary freedom issue, in the sense that it is intended not to
   directly increase personal or economic freedom, or reduce State
   aggression, but rather to change the rules in the hope that a better
   set of electoral rules would produce better outcomes for freedom.

   Another consideration is that the countries currently using PR
   (Belgium, Denmark, [1]Finland, Greece, Hungary, [2]Israel, Italy,
   Luxembourg, Norway, [3]Russia, Spain, [4]Sweden, and [5]Switzerland –
   see [6]https://www.britannica.com/topic/proportional-representation
   ) haven't become markedly libertarian. It is of course possible that
   they enjoy more freedom than they would have if they had not adopted
   PR, but this is not immediately obvious.

   I do continue to think PR is a fairer and better system than
   winner-take-all, and it could potentially do much good in the United
   States by breaking up the long-dominant 2-party cartel. But your
   long-time obsessive advocacy of this single issue makes me suspect that
   you may be seeing it as a kind of libertarian "silver bullet", and
   looking at the overall picture less than realistically.

   You suggest we start by attempting to change the state constitution in
   Nevada or Nebraska. How much do you think this would cost, and from
   where would you obtain the resources to accomplish it? I suspect it
   would cost millions of dollars just to get the hundreds of thousands of
   signatures needed to put such a measure on the ballot, aside from any
   moneys spent on an actual campaign to pass it, and our entire national
   LP budget is under $2 million a year. Have you lobbied the leadership
   of other alternative political parties or groups that might be
   interested in funding and participating in such a project?

   My best guess is that at present, ballot access efforts get the LP
   significantly more "bang for the buck" in terms of advancing freedom.
   However if there were a major coalition seeking to enact PR and we
   weren't carrying the bulk of the burden ourselves, the picture could
   look significantly different. Building a working coalition of
   alternative parties in this country strikes me as a potentially
   important and game-changing project, and electoral reform might be just
   about the only practical agenda behind which such an ideologically
   diverse coalition could unite without getting bogged down in squabbling
   over the details.

   Love & Liberty,

                                        ((( starchild )))

   At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee

                            [7]RealReform at earthlink.net

                                     (415) 625-FREE

                                       @StarchildSF

   On Apr 9, 2018, at 12:37 PM, Thomas Jones wrote:

   18 States have voter petitions for State Const Amdts
   2016 Prez Votes - Low to High
   1          ND      344,360
   2          SD       370,093
   3          MT      497,147
   4          NE       844,227
   5          NV      1,125,385
   6          AR       1,130,635
   7          MS      1,209,357
   8          OK      1,452,992
   9          OR      2,001,336
   10        AZ       2,573,165
   11        CO      2,780,247
   12        MO     2,808,605
   13        MA      3,325,046
   14        MI       4,799,284
   15        OH      5,496,487
   16        IL        5,536,424
   17        FL       9,420,039
   18        CA       14,181,604
   [8]http://www.iandrinstitute.org/states.cfm
   Suggest NV or NE for starters.
   All sorts of defective/fatal *reforms* being done by the statist
   leftwing usual suspects.
   *******
   SAVE DEMOCRACY ELECTION REFORMS 9 APR 2018

   1. ONE election day. NO primaries, caucuses and conventions.
   2. Proportional Representation (P.R) in all legislative body elections.
   BOTH majority rule and minority representation = DEMOCRACY.
   3. NONPARTISAN nominations and elections of all elected executive
   officers and all judicial officers.

   [OPTION ITEMS IN BRACKETS]

   [The added or amended sections below shall apply to all elections,
   except if existing language applies.]
   --------------
   Sec. 1. (1) Elections shall only be held on [date] of each year
   [(except for recall elections].
   (2) All elections shall only use mail paper secret ballots.
   (3) The [state] shall pay the cost for the mail paper secret ballots to
   and from the Electors.
   (4) All election laws shall be general and shall exist by [210] days
   before the election day along with all election districts.
   (5) All elected officers shall be registered Electors [in the [state]]
   in addition to any other qualifications in this constitution.
   (6) All incumbents and all other candidates shall respectively file a
   declaration of candidacy and any filing fees in (7) by [5 P.M.][203]
   and [196] days before the election day.
   (7) The names of all candidates shall be put on the election ballots
   only by (a) nominating petition forms signed by Electors in the area
   involved equal to not more than [0.2] percent of the number of Electors
   who voted in the last regular election for [governor] in such area
   which shall be filed and verified respectively by [105] and [70] days
   before the election day, or (b) filing fees (signature number
   multiplied by a uniform money amount).
   (8) Elector form- [9, 10 or 12] point type, [3.5 by 4.25 inches]
   NOMINATING PETITION - [PARTISAN (for legislative offices)] [NONPARTISAN
   (for executive/judicial offices)]
   I nominate (candidate’s name and address) (of the (one word party name
   - not more than [16] capital letters) Party) for (office) in (election
   area) at the (date) election.
   Elector signature, printed name, address and date signed.
   Return to- (address)
   (9) No filing shall be withdrawn.
   (10) Candidates shall have their party's name in (8) or NONPARTISAN
   [and may by law have a [0.4 inch by 0.4 inch] symbol] next to their
   names on the ballots.

   Sec. 2. (1) The Electors shall elect all members of each legislative
   body for [1] year terms who may meet any time in person, by written
   proxy or electronically.
   (2) Each legislative body shall have an odd number of members (at least
   [5]) who are elected in at least 2 districts.
   (3) As nearly as possible, each legislative body election district
   shall have 2 (rural) to 5 (urban) times the number of Electors who
   voted at the last regular election [for governor] divided by the total
   members in the body, be 1 or more [local governments] or a part of 1
   [local government] and be contiguous and square.
   (4) A qualified person may be a candidate in any district.

   Sec. 3. ((1) Each legislative body candidate shall receive a list of
   all other candidates with party names in all districts by [63] days
   before the election day.
   (2) Each candidate shall rank such all other candidates (using 1
   (highest), 2, etc.) and file such list by [5 P.M. 56] days before the
   election day.
   (3) The lists shall be made public the next day.
   (4) If a valid list is not filed, then the candidate’s name shall be
   removed from the ballots.

   Sec. 4. (1) Each Elector may vote for 1 candidate for each legislative
   body.
   (2) The Ratio shall be the Total Votes for all candidates in all
   districts divided by the Total Members, dropping any fraction.
   Ratio = TV/TM
   (3) A candidate who gets the Ratio shall be elected.
   (4) The largest surplus more than the Ratio shall be moved to 1 or more
   candidates in any district who do not have the Ratio and who are
   highest on the candidate's rank order list.
   (5) Only the votes needed to get the Ratio shall be moved to any 1
   candidate.
   (6) Repeat steps (4) and (5) until all surplus votes are moved.
   (7) If all members are not elected, then the candidate with the least
   votes shall lose.
   (8) Such losing votes shall be moved to 1 or more remaining unelected
   candidates in any district who are highest on the candidate's rank
   order list subject to (5).
   The moving order shall be original votes and then the earliest surplus
   or other loser votes.
   (9) Steps (7) and (8) shall repeat until all members are elected.
   (10) Each member shall have 1 vote in the legislative body.
   (11) Example 100 Votes, Elect 5
   Ratio = 100/5 = 20
   ---
   Surplus Moved
   C1 25-20=5 Surplus
   C2 19+1=20
   C3 14+4=18
   ---
   Final
   C1 20=20 Elected
   C2 20=20 Elected
   C3 18+2=20 Elected
   C4 17+3=20 Elected
   C5 15+5=20 Elected
   Sum 90+10=100
   Losers 10 are moved to elected persons.

   [NOTE - slightly more exact/complex methods are possible]

   Sec. 5. (1) All legislative body candidates and members shall file 1 or
   more rank order lists of persons to replace (temporary or permanent)
   the candidate or member during an election time or term respectively.
   (2) The qualified person who is highest on the list shall fill such
   vacancy.
   (3) If the preceding does not happen, then the other members of his/her
   party (if any) or the legislative body shall fill such vacancy with a
   qualified person of the same party immediately at its next meeting.

   [NO more vacancy special elections for legislators.]

   Sec. 6. (1) The Electors shall elect all elected executive officers
   [(at least a chief executive, a clerk and a treasurer in each
   government)] for [1] year terms at nonpartisan elections.
   (2) The Electors shall elect all judicial officers for the [1 to 6
   year] terms provided by this constitution and law at nonpartisan
   elections.
   (3) No law change shall reduce the term of any judicial officer.
   (4) Each Elector may vote for 1 or more candidates for each executive
   or judicial office (including 1 write-in vote for each position).
   (5) The candidate(s) getting the most votes shall be elected (for the
   longest terms respectively).

   [(4)-(5) is the Approval Voting method.]

   Sec. 7. (1) The terms of office involved shall start [at noon] [7] days
   after the election day.
   (2) All legislation enacted from [35] days before an election day until
   the (1) starting time shall be temporary and shall expire not later
   than [35] days after such term starting time.
   [Stop/reduce lame duck stuff]

   [Sec. 8. (1) A general law shall provide for a recall election of any
   legislative body or elected executive [or judicial] officer upon
   petition of Electors equal to [25] percent of the number of Electors
   who voted at the last regular election [for governor] in the election
   area of the body or officer involved.
   (2) The reason(s) in any petition (in not more than [50] words) shall
   not be reviewed, except in a libel case against the recall sponsor.
   (3) A filed petition shall be verified within [35] days if (4) applies.
   (4) The recall election day shall happen [21 to 28] days thereafter
   during the term involved with the result on the same day.
   (5) Any person recalled shall not hold any public office for [2] years
   after the recall election day.]

References

   1. https://www.britannica.com/place/Finland
   2. https://www.britannica.com/place/Israel
   3. https://www.britannica.com/place/Russia
   4. https://www.britannica.com/place/Sweden
   5. https://www.britannica.com/place/Switzerland
   6. https://www.britannica.com/topic/proportional-representation
   7. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
   8. http://www.iandrinstitute.org/states.cfm


More information about the Lnc-business mailing list