[Lnc-business] Forwarding discussion with member on alternative voting

Caryn Ann Harlos carynannharlos at gmail.com
Wed Aug 22 11:44:48 EDT 2018


---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Data Logan <datalogan at lpwa.org>
Date: Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: Libertarian in support of fundamental election reform
To: Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>


feel free to share with anyone you want

Data Logan

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 1:25 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>
 wrote:

> May I share our exchange publicly on the LNC list Data?
>
> -Caryn Ann
>
> On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 2:24 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
> > wrote:
>
>> ===I deeply believe that the most powerful thing that the Libertarian
>> Party can do to increase the number of elected Libertarians in office is to
>> support fundamental election reform like that recommended by the FairVote
>> organization and (LNC member) William Redpath.==
>>
>> I agree with you.  In my view, that is something that the LNC can most
>> easily use its influence to assist rather than efforts scattered over
>> thousands of races that the state affiliates are more equipped to handle
>> and if we could get a groundswell for voting reform those thousands of
>> candidates would have a much better chance at wining and moving policy.
>>  Maine is embattled in its passage - and that needs to succeed there so
>> that Maine can do for RCV what Colorado did for recreational marijuana.
>> BTW, Colorado would be an excellent ground to start an RCV push by national
>> for multiple reasons.
>>
>> We have limited resources and attention - what can we do the most with
>> and leave to the affiliates to handle their local elections for which they
>> know far more about than we can - while still providing infrastructure
>> support (such as assistance with candidate recruitment and basic support
>> like we do now).
>>
>> So a long way of saying, I am your spirit animal on this point, and I
>> agree Data.
>>
>> -Caryn Ann
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 2:03 PM, Data Logan <datalogan at lpwa.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I deeply believe that the most powerful thing that the Libertarian Party
>>> can do to increase the number of elected Libertarians in office is to
>>> support fundamental election reform like that recommended by the FairVote
>>> organization and (LNC member) William Redpath.
>>> The existing election systems in most areas of the U.S. are strongly
>>> controlled by the entrenched 2 parties of Republicans and Democrats.  This
>>> is fundamentally because of the plurality voting system that absolutely
>>> mathematically will always lead to a 2-party system (via Duverger's Law).
>>> No amount of money or ballot access or debate presence or law suits will be
>>> able to change this (much).  But it has been proven in the limited areas
>>> that do envoke better election systems that there are plenty of Libertarian
>>> voters that will quickly come out and vote Libertarian -- just as soon as
>>> the elections system allows that to have some meaning.
>>>
>>> Over 90% of all elections within the U.S. (under the old entrenched
>>> plurality election system) are won by whichever candidate has the most
>>> money in their campaign.  But, if you look at races where instant run-off
>>> voting is used [and there have been over 200 of these in the U.S. in the
>>> last couple decades] there is only about a 1-in-3 chance that the winner is
>>> the candidate with the most money. (And that's about as fair an even split
>>> as you could expect since most of these races only had 3 candidates.)  What
>>> this tells us is that voters do matter, not money, but they have to have a
>>> system in which their votes have a true impact on the election.
>>>
>>> In places where it is used, ranked choice / instant run-off election
>>> systems prove the power of the voter over any money (or debate access)
>>> concerns.
>>> And proportional voting systems (with multi-winner districts) have an
>>> even greater impact on getting the voice of voters to be heard.
>>> If we can get the election system back into control of the voters I
>>> think we'll quickly see that the average voter is Libertarian.  We need a
>>> system that allows the (Libertarian) choice of average voters to be heard
>>> -- and not the more polarized left and right.
>>>
>>> If we want Libertarians elected we should really consider spending our
>>> resources more on election reform itself than on any particular candidate's
>>> campaign (or even ballot access or gerrymandering or debate access or other
>>> lesser issues).  Election reform will have a much more significant impact
>>> than any of these other issues.  Let's be frugal and use our limited
>>> resources where they can have the most positive change -- for all Americans
>>> -- but especially for all the "3rd-party" Libertarians in the wings waiting
>>> for a system that will allow them to get elected.  Please support election
>>> reform as much as you can.
>>>
>>> Data Logan
>>> (206) 910-9836
>>> Bremerton, WA
>>> Libertarian
>>> datalogan at lpwa.org
>>> FairVote Election Activist
>>> datalogan at fairvotewa.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> *In Liberty,*
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary - Caryn.Ann.
>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org> or Secretary at LP.org.
>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
>>
>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>> *We defend your rights*
>> *And oppose the use of force*
>> *Taxation is theft*
>>
>
>
>
> --
> --
> *In Liberty,*
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org> or Secretary at LP.org.
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
>
> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> *We defend your rights*
> *And oppose the use of force*
> *Taxation is theft*
>



-- 
J. Data Logan
Libertarian Party of Washington State (LPWA)
datalogan at lpwa.org
(206) 910-9836


-- 
-- 
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org> or Secretary at LP.org.
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org

A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
*We defend your rights*
*And oppose the use of force*
*Taxation is theft*

-- 
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org> or Secretary at LP.org.
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org


A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
*We defend your rights*
*And oppose the use of force*
*Taxation is theft*
-------------- next part --------------
   ---------- Forwarded message ---------
   From: Data Logan <[1]datalogan at lpwa.org>
   Date: Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 6:32 PM
   Subject: Re: Libertarian in support of fundamental election reform
   To: Caryn Ann Harlos <[2]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>
   feel free to share with anyone you want
   Data Logan
   On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 1:25 PM, Caryn Ann
   Harlos <[3]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:

   May I share our exchange publicly on the LNC list Data?
   -Caryn Ann

   On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 2:24 PM, Caryn Ann
   Harlos <[4]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:

   ===I deeply believe that the most powerful thing that the Libertarian
   Party can do to increase the number of elected Libertarians in office
   is to support fundamental election reform like that recommended by the
   FairVote organization and (LNC member) William Redpath.==
   I agree with you.  In my view, that is something that the LNC can most
   easily use its influence to assist rather than efforts scattered over
   thousands of races that the state affiliates are more equipped to
   handle and if we could get a groundswell for voting reform those
   thousands of candidates would have a much better chance at wining and
   moving policy.   Maine is embattled in its passage - and that needs to
   succeed there so that Maine can do for RCV what Colorado did for
   recreational marijuana.  BTW, Colorado would be an excellent ground to
   start an RCV push by national for multiple reasons.
   We have limited resources and attention - what can we do the most with
   and leave to the affiliates to handle their local elections for which
   they know far more about than we can - while still providing
   infrastructure support (such as assistance with candidate recruitment
   and basic support like we do now).
   So a long way of saying, I am your spirit animal on this point, and I
   agree Data.
   -Caryn Ann

   On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 2:03 PM, Data
   Logan <[5]datalogan at lpwa.org> wrote:

   I deeply believe that the most powerful thing that the Libertarian
   Party can do to increase the number of elected Libertarians in office
   is to support fundamental election reform like that recommended by the
   FairVote organization and (LNC member) William Redpath.
   The existing election systems in most areas of the U.S. are strongly
   controlled by the entrenched 2 parties of Republicans and Democrats.
   This is fundamentally because of the plurality voting system that
   absolutely mathematically will always lead to a 2-party system (via
   Duverger's Law).  No amount of money or ballot access or debate
   presence or law suits will be able to change this (much).  But it has
   been proven in the limited areas that do envoke better election systems
   that there are plenty of Libertarian voters that will quickly come out
   and vote Libertarian -- just as soon as the elections system allows
   that to have some meaning.
   Over 90% of all elections within the U.S. (under the old entrenched
   plurality election system) are won by whichever candidate has the most
   money in their campaign.  But, if you look at races where instant
   run-off voting is used [and there have been over 200 of these in the
   U.S. in the last couple decades] there is only about a 1-in-3 chance
   that the winner is the candidate with the most money. (And that's about
   as fair an even split as you could expect since most of these races
   only had 3 candidates.)  What this tells us is that voters do matter,
   not money, but they have to have a system in which their votes have a
   true impact on the election.
   In places where it is used, ranked choice / instant run-off election
   systems prove the power of the voter over any money (or debate access)
   concerns.
   And proportional voting systems (with multi-winner districts) have an
   even greater impact on getting the voice of voters to be heard.
   If we can get the election system back into control of the voters I
   think we'll quickly see that the average voter is Libertarian.  We need
   a system that allows the (Libertarian) choice of average voters to be
   heard -- and not the more polarized left and right.
   If we want Libertarians elected we should really consider spending our
   resources more on election reform itself than on any particular
   candidate's campaign (or even ballot access or gerrymandering or debate
   access or other lesser issues).  Election reform will have a much more
   significant impact than any of these other issues.  Let's be frugal and
   use our limited resources where they can have the most positive change
   -- for all Americans -- but especially for all the "3rd-party"
   Libertarians in the wings waiting for a system that will allow them to
   get elected.  Please support election reform as much as you can.
   Data Logan
   (206) 910-9836
   Bremerton, WA
   Libertarian
   [6]datalogan at lpwa.org
   FairVote Election Activist
   [7]datalogan at fairvotewa.org

   --
   --
   In Liberty,
   Caryn Ann Harlos
   Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
   - [8]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
   Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
   A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
   We defend your rights
   And oppose the use of force
   Taxation is theft

   --
   --
   In Liberty,
   Caryn Ann Harlos
   Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
   - [9]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
   Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
   A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
   We defend your rights
   And oppose the use of force
   Taxation is theft

   --
   J. Data Logan
   Libertarian Party of Washington State (LPWA)
   [10]datalogan at lpwa.org
   (206) 910-9836
   --
   --
   In Liberty,
   Caryn Ann Harlos
   Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
   - [11]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
   Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
   A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
   We defend your rights
   And oppose the use of force
   Taxation is theft
   --
   In Liberty,
   Caryn Ann Harlos
   Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary -
   [12]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
   Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
   A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
   We defend your rights
   And oppose the use of force
   Taxation is theft

References

   1. mailto:datalogan at lpwa.org
   2. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
   3. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
   4. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
   5. mailto:datalogan at lpwa.org
   6. mailto:datalogan at lpwa.org
   7. mailto:datalogan at fairvotewa.org
   8. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
   9. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
  10. mailto:datalogan at lpwa.org
  11. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
  12. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org


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