[Lnc-business] Public views on immigration
Starchild
starchild at lp.org
Thu Jan 25 22:10:01 EST 2018
I've noticed the same thing Joshua, and often proposed exactly the remedy you mention. And like you, I curiously have yet to meet anyone purportedly opposed only to "illegal" immigration who's willing to support this obvious solution. :-) These people are simply anti-immigrant, but try to hide behind an ostensible interest in making sure people follow the law.
To which I also generally reply, that if you want people to follow the law, you should support upholding the Constitution, which except for the importation of slaves after 1808, gives the federal government no legal authority to regulate immigration (who can enter the country), only naturalization (the process of becoming a citizen).
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
RealReform at earthlink.net
(415) 625-FREE
On Jan 25, 2018, at 6:51 PM, Joshua Katz wrote:
> As just a personal observation, I have noticed an uptick in the use of
> the phrase "no, I have no problem with legal immigration, it's illegal
> immigration I have a problem with." Which makes sense at first blush,
> but it so often turns out that the person who says it also opposes
> expanding legal immigration, or supports decreasing legal immigration.
> The statement that all legal immigration is fine, and all illegal
> immigration is bad, would seem to logically lead to the conclusion that
> we should simply do away with all restrictions on immigration, thus
> increasing a good thing (legal immigration) and eliminating a bad thing
> (illegal immigration), yet I've never met a person who makes this claim
> and supports doing away with all restrictions. It strikes me as a
> strange thing to say.
>
> Joshua A. Katz
> On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 8:24 PM, Starchild <[1]starchild at lp.org> wrote:
>
> With talk of building a wall, the increased recent visibility of
> sharply xenophobic and racist views in the era of Trump, etc.,
> things
> may not seem rosy for libertarian views in this area. But the
> situation
> is better than it appears at first blush: According to Gallup
> polling,
> more people want to maintain levels of legal immigration than cut
> them,
> and the number who want to *increase* legal immigration has risen
> significantly over the past couple decades:
> "For decades, Gallup has asked Americans if they think the
> level of
> legal immigration should be 'kept at its present level,
> increased,
> or decreased.' In recent years, Americans have been closely
> split
> between holding steady (38 percent as of June 2017) and
> decreasing
> (35 percent). The remainder, around 1 in 4, want to increase
> legal
> immigration.
> While the clear majority want to decrease or hold legal
> immigration
> steady, these numbers represent a longer-term pro-immigration
> shift
> � as of the mid-1990s, two-thirds of Americans wanted to
> decrease
> legal immigration, and only 6 or 7 percent wanted to increase
> it."
> (From
> [1][2]https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-
> latest-immigration
> -polls-do-and-dont-say )
> This makes sense � the world continues to become more
> interconnected,
> the Internet is transcending borders, and young people tend to be
> more
> immigration-friendly than older people.
> People may not be embracing freedom as quickly as we would
> prefer, but
> I think the long term trends remain mostly positive and that
> humanity
> continues to gradually move in a libertarian direction. Our
> leadership
> in being out in front of that curve is vital.
> Love & Liberty,
> ((( starchild )))
> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
> [2][3]RealReform at earthlink.net
> (415) 625-FREE
> References
> 1. [4]https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-latest-
> immigration-polls-do-and-dont-say
> 2. mailto:[5]RealReform at earthlink.net
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> [6]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> [7]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:starchild at lp.org
> 2. https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-latest-immigration
> 3. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
> 4. https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-latest-immigration-polls-do-and-dont-say
> 5. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
> 6. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 7. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
-------------- next part --------------
I've noticed the same thing Joshua, and often proposed exactly the
remedy you mention. And like you, I curiously have yet to meet anyone
purportedly opposed only to "illegal" immigration who's willing to
support this obvious solution. :-) These people are simply
anti-immigrant, but try to hide behind an ostensible interest in making
sure people follow the law.
To which I also generally reply, that if you want people to follow the
law, you should support upholding the Constitution, which except for
the importation of slaves after 1808, gives the federal government no
legal authority to regulate immigration (who can enter the country),
only naturalization (the process of becoming a citizen).
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
[1]RealReform at earthlink.net
(415) 625-FREE
On Jan 25, 2018, at 6:51 PM, Joshua Katz wrote:
As just a personal observation, I have noticed an uptick in the use
of
the phrase "no, I have no problem with legal immigration, it's
illegal
immigration I have a problem with." Which makes sense at first
blush,
but it so often turns out that the person who says it also opposes
expanding legal immigration, or supports decreasing legal
immigration.
The statement that all legal immigration is fine, and all illegal
immigration is bad, would seem to logically lead to the conclusion
that
we should simply do away with all restrictions on immigration, thus
increasing a good thing (legal immigration) and eliminating a bad
thing
(illegal immigration), yet I've never met a person who makes this
claim
and supports doing away with all restrictions. It strikes me as a
strange thing to say.
Joshua A. Katz
On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 8:24 PM, Starchild <[1]starchild at lp.org>
wrote:
With talk of building a wall, the increased recent visibility of
sharply xenophobic and racist views in the era of Trump, etc.,
things
may not seem rosy for libertarian views in this area. But the
situation
is better than it appears at first blush: According to Gallup
polling,
more people want to maintain levels of legal immigration than
cut
them,
and the number who want to *increase* legal immigration has
risen
significantly over the past couple decades:
"For decades, Gallup has asked Americans if they think the
level of
legal immigration should be 'kept at its present level,
increased,
or decreased.' In recent years, Americans have been closely
split
between holding steady (38 percent as of June 2017) and
decreasing
(35 percent). The remainder, around 1 in 4, want to increase
legal
immigration.
While the clear majority want to decrease or hold legal
immigration
steady, these numbers represent a longer-term pro-immigration
shift
� as of the mid-1990s, two-thirds of Americans wanted to
decrease
legal immigration, and only 6 or 7 percent wanted to increase
it."
(From
[1][2]https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-
latest-immigration
-polls-do-and-dont-say )
This makes sense � the world continues to become more
interconnected,
the Internet is transcending borders, and young people tend to
be
more
immigration-friendly than older people.
People may not be embracing freedom as quickly as we would
prefer, but
I think the long term trends remain mostly positive and that
humanity
continues to gradually move in a libertarian direction. Our
leadership
in being out in front of that curve is vital.
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
[2][3]RealReform at earthlink.net
(415) 625-FREE
References
1. [4]https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-latest-
immigration-polls-do-and-dont-say
2. mailto:[5]RealReform at earthlink.net
_______________________________________________
Lnc-business mailing list
[6]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
[7]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
References
1. [2]mailto:starchild at lp.org
2.
[3]https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-latest-immigration
3. [4]mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
4.
[5]https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-latest-immigration
-polls-do-and-dont-say
5. [6]mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
6. [7]mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
7. [8]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
_______________________________________________
Lnc-business mailing list
[9]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
References
1. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
2. mailto:starchild at lp.org
3. https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-latest-immigration
4. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
5. https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-latest-immigration-polls-do-and-dont-say
6. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
7. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
8. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
9. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
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